Swimmers are told to wear burkinis

reply to post by Voxel

The dress code that is required 98% of the time is the Christian's modest dress code.

I don't think that the "normal" dress code is AT ALL Christian.. It simply is what it is.. a social or cultural dress code, certainly NOT a Religious dress code.. Unless there is somewhere in the Bible that says "Thou Shalt wear Thong Bikini to thy Pool!"

Originally posted by St Vaast
Okaaaaay

Now let's read the entire article, folks.

But across the UK municipal pools are holding swimming sessions specifically aimed at Muslims, in some case imposing strict dress codes.

Croydon council in south London runs separate one-and-a half-hour swimming sessions for Muslim men and women every Saturday and Sunday at Thornton Heath Leisure Centre.

Swimmers were told last week on the centre's website that "during special Muslim sessions male costumes must cover the body from the navel to the knee and females must be covered from the neck to the ankles and wrists".

www.telegraph.co.uk...



Therefore, NO-ONE is going to make you wear Muslim dress to swimming pools IF you attend the NON-muslim sessions, ok?

It's only during the MUSLIM sessions that Muslim attire must be worn and respected.


Anything can be sensationalised if it's quoted out of context

Star'd.

This site needs more people that actually read the articles, rather than taking the thread-starter's word for it.

I'm not saying they're liars, most of them skim articles and believe what they're telling others.

It's just a bit misinformative.

reply to post by Woland

Originally posted by Woland
You said my argument is base on "imposing a religious belief in the public sector". From the country's point of view, they are both subjects requesting an allotted time to cater to them. Why should the council view these differently?

Because the reasons given for the bath wear is based upon religious grounds. Not legal. Religious.

2. Your argument is prejudice and your only reasoning so far is that religion is different. How is it?

There have been many instances of Christian nativity displays being prohibited on public grounds. The reason given is separation of church and state.

Demanding that a dress code be imposed upon a public pool in order to satisfy a religious sect goes against that separation.

Now, perhaps you'd be so kind to answer those and then these:

1. You twisted my words about keeping religious beliefs private, so I corrected you.

No, you didn't correct me. What happened is that you failed to see the irony in your own statement; I was agreeing with you, and trying to show you that you had shot your own argument down and remain polite while doing so.

2. The "civilised world" exhibits and reveres tolerance and acceptance. Not helping minority groups to practice their beliefs, if legal, contradicts this. How are we "civilised" if we don't meet our own standards?

There is no requirement to 'help' any group to practice their religious beliefs. In fact, that goes against the separation issue.

3. Muslims pay taxes if they live in the UK and are thus part of the public. We provide public funds for a range of pursuits, religious and secular. Why shouldn't we provide 5% of the pool's time for this pursuit, particularly in an area with a significant Muslim population?

Nobody was preventing muslims from using the pool. On the contrary, muslims want to prevent others from using the pool unless they bow to the Quran.

I hope that the UK begins to grow the spine they once had, and put an end to this takeover of their nation by a religion.

reply to post by neformore

I'll throw the same question back at you, in a free society, if the pool organises it for them, whats wrong with it? Can't the people who run the pool do what they see fit with their property?

No they cannot, if it is a publicly owned and paid for pool. They can impose some restrictions, but certainly not based upon religion.

when the muslim women are in the public they have to wear face covering, (burkah)(not all)
so why are they allowed to remove them in swimming pools, surely that is breaking their code dress, oh so they are allowed to when told to eh?

reply to post by Rockpuck


As i've said before.... all their religion does is provoke anger and create seperatism...... it's what they want..... they want to be seperate.... they want to push their faith onto everybody else......

Do you want to wake up at 5 every morning to pray?
Do you want piS S facing East? (How dumb is that)
Do you want to pray how ever many times it is each day?
Do you want to wear a dress every day?
Do you not want to see your wife's face?
Do you want to have to eat every day before a certain time and after a certain time?

What the hell is this?

the list goes on...............

This is really BS and i think the film Equilibrium was telling us something

It isn’t just the pools, the Muslim way of life and their twisted views on how life should be lead is being used to sully the majority of the UK, however don’t label us all under the GB title, it is not as back in Scotland as it is in certain parts of England, I was at a conference in Birmingham and it was like being in Pakistan. I am open to any religions that do not force their way of life onto society however Islam is the number one offender in the world for being a pushy self serving hypocritical destructive and down right dangerous religion and I would love to see the day it was wiped from our shores. I believe we are at a tipping point however as more and more people are sick of the Muslim attitude at the moment. I for one am not afraid to speak my views, call me a racist if you like however if this is the way the pools are going I would like a Christian hour where there an no Muslims in the pool, I wonder how that would go down :

This is crazy.
What follows next will be the wet burka competition.

Originally posted by centurion1211
reply to post by neformore

 

And I'll throw the same comment back to you I made earlier. How will it be when the non-muslims are the ones that only get the 1.5 hours to swim because the government and people of the UK (such as yourself) have become so afraid of not being politically correct that they sheepishly allow one group (any group) to come in and take away their own 2,000 year old culture? Do you already own a "burkini"?

Originally posted by centurion1211
And I'll throw the same comment back to you I made earlier. How will it be when the non-muslims are the ones that only get the 1.5 hours to swim because the government and people of the UK (such as yourself) have become so afraid of not being politically correct that they sheepishly allow one group (any group) to come in and take away their own 2,000 year old culture? Do you already own a "burkini"?

The 2,000 year old culture to which you refer was made possible a mix of integration and tolerance. Not xenophobic fear mongering and generalisations.

Actually, so was the USA. I find it astonishing that someone from a country that is founded on immigration and the embracing of cultures can't understand the concept of it.

I really, really feel sorry for you that you live in a world you apparently hate with a passion where anything different from your dyed in the wool ways is considered to be wrong, abhorrent and is treated with derision and suspicion.

It must be a very sad world to live in indeed, to get up each day in a state of such paranoia and terror.

And at the same time, you would deny others the essence of what your country stands for. The hypocrisy is stunning, and when you have that pointed out to you you turn to crass, generalised sweeping statements that hold no basis in reality, or rational thought, with such a presumptuous arrogant swagger that always assumes you are right, that somehow you have the moral upper hand, simply because you deem it to be so.

To answer your question, its not going to happen. Know why? Because as much as you think the muslim faith is subverting the western world, the western world is subverting the muslim faith. I know thats a difficult concept for you to grasp, but its true.

Its a two way street, always has been, always will be.

just somthin eles they need to change, all i say is let em we sat sat back when christmas offended them so we now call it wintersday, they got santa banned from a few shopping centers.
were not allowed to attend there Mosque's, they get let off with wearing head gear wear we carnt wear caps, they can carry daggers around with them on certen days, and im sure theres loads more of that kind of stuff.
were to much of a push over if u wanna live in some ones house you go by there rules not make your own up for them to follow if they came to your house and started changing the way you live to suit them what would you do,
i know what i would do kick the straight out.

reply to post by Restless1984


lol you just mixed a bunch of different religions up
hahaha

daggers is for sikhs for example, not muslims

One of the problems being illustrated here is the fact that immigrant muslims come from countries that were theocracies. Islam was the gov't where they came from.

They expect the rules in every country to be based upon their religion. They cannot understand the resistance against it. They have not grasped the concept of religious freedom and separation from state.

Originally posted by neformore
You know, there are times when I read ATS and despair.

In the UK, there are women only sessions, kids only sessions, mother and toddler only sessions, new swimmer sessions, pensioner sessions, and guess what? Other folks aren't allowed in at those times, or have to obey certain rules.

So this is a muslim session, and it has its own rules. So what? No big deal.

You can scaremonger it anyway you like, but in doing so you are only being petty and pedantic, and talking rubbish. ANYONE can book a swimming pool for a period of time, and if you ask the management of the local pool to arrange a specific type of session, they'll normally try and fit you in if there is space.

Its that simple.

And anyone thats claiming it isn't is scaremongering for the sake if it.

Thanks for posting this! It's pretty much the same here, as I posted before, and am glad to read it's similar there. This has apparently turned into the vent your bigotry thread. Curious as to why it is allowed to continue.

Re: separation of State and Church (which has been responsible for banning Christmas carols, Christmas pantomimes, Christmas trees in public places, etc.)

The Law (i.e., State) has decreed that bigamy is a crime, usually punishable by several years in jail

However, the State dismisses its own laws and decrees that polygamy is NOT a crime 'if it is part of a religious belief '.

This double standard CLEARLY contravenes 'separation of State and Church'

Therefore, if a non-Muslim is guilty of bigamy, that person will be punished under Law.

Whilst at the same time, a Muslim MAY commit bigamy and claim it is part of their religion .. and the Law will look the other way.

So right there, you have the State banning Christmas carols -- yet it allows Muslims to have four wives, in a nation in which bigamy is a crime.

And hardly anyone knows it's going on

reply to post by CleverNameHere


Hey I posted both sides of the argument perhaps you should read the original post.

Originally posted by jsobecky

One of the problems being illustrated here is the fact that immigrant muslims come from countries that were theocracies. Islam was the gov't where they came from.

They expect the rules in every country to be based upon their religion. They cannot understand the resistance against it. They have not grasped the concept of religious freedom and separation from state.

Exactly one of the key points that posters like nefermore (purposely?) ignore in their rush to defend anything and everything muslim in the UK. There is no difference between the religion and the government in muslim theocracies.

This is fusion of church and state, the exact opposite of separation of church and state.

[edit on 8/17/2009 by centurion1211]

reply to post by TruthxIsxInxThexMist


No one is forcing me to be Muslim, just as no one is forcing me to be Christian? I agree that the segregation at the pool is bad because it's based on religion.

However, only because it's a public pool.. if it were private, I would have no issues.

The biggest issue being that the public pool demanding dress codes based off religion is made even worse by the deeply degrading notion towards women. IMO, it's like the city council commends it.

I think you are looking to far into it though. The West will never be converted into Islam. If anything the West will convert the Muslims into atheist like we did with Christians. 2nd-3rd generation Muslims will probably assimilate far better than their parents did, and the hard line policies will die away.

Originally posted by jsobecky
Nobody was preventing muslims from using the pool. On the contrary, muslims want to prevent others from using the pool unless they bow to the Quran.

I would not agree with that. These types of Muslims would be the ones who's religion dictates to them that should they attend something like a public pool, they must do so in the company of other Muslims, and with the appropriate dress. The problem is two fold. The Muslims would not feel comfortable bathing with non Muslims, and the non muslims would be uncomfortable bathing with folk who look like extras from an episode of Star Trek.

What is a local council to do? Well simple, you set aside some time for the minority group to have access to a public service they pay for, otherwise you are preventing them from accessing that service, you discriminate against them due to their religious beliefs. It is illegal to discriminate against people on religious grounds, which is what this is. This would be so easily proven in a court of law that it is better to give them a few hours than the local authorities be sued, have to pay damages then have to do it anyway.

A couple of hours a week is hardly preventing others from using the pool. Sure the UK has plenty of issues with islamification, but this aint it, this is nothing more than offering a section of the Muslim community some dignity.

reply to post by neformore


well I suppose I can only hope and pray for a Starbucks on every corner in the Muslim world! I want to see a kfc in every city a walmart in baghdad.

get off your highhorse you don't like what America has to offer don't use those places or anything we invent or was invented here IE the phone light bulbs AC current or anything of the like.

and as for the pool no one has the right to push there religious crap on anyone they don't like it go home, where that crap is OK.