The problem with Health Care: "Government involvement"

Originally posted by VinceP1974
We are not a Democracy.

The majority does not always rule.

We are a nation of laws, not the mob.

The Constitution determines what the Federal Govt may do and may not do. And it's clear in this regard.. the Govt may not run a Federalized State Run Rationing System.

It's simply too bad what the majority wants. The Framers were not interested in forming a suicidal democracy, but a sustainable Republic.


To be honest... I dont care if anyone can't pay for their fancy schmancy cancer treatment.

If we put the Govt in charge... 60 years from now, today's fancy schmancy cancer treatment will still be fancy schmancy because that will be the end of profit-seeking innovation.

So if you can't pay now... just pretend we had your system for the past 50 years , and get treatment that was considered groundbreaking 50 years ago.

basta!

Is that an intro to drama club...

Frankly I don't care about your shilling and your post is comedic.

State run Rationing system

The lot of you are sheep, fighting to pay more

spewing your masters penmanship having purchased the scam that is your fear.





tough tethers!

Originally posted by mental modulator

Is that an intro to drama club...

Frankly I don't care about your shilling and your post is comedic.

State run Rationing system

The lot of you are sheep, fighting to pay more

spewing your masters penmanship having purchased the scam that is your fear.





tough tethers!

How does Govt spend money? Via a Budget.

What happens when spending reaches budget limits? Yet the spending is a "public service"

Does that service get showered with even more money? (Remember the Govt is bankrupt) Or does that service have to get by till the next budget?

You're claiming that isn't rationing?

Is that rational?

reply to post by mental modulator


Besides the FACT that the AMERICAN public does not what this...HOW else do you expect the AMERICAN PEOPLE TO PAY for this NEW program.

Oh that's right SPEND, SPEND, SPEND, SPEND.....MONEY WE DON'T HAVE...the mantra of the liberal....

Or better yet...GET BERNANKE...TO PRINT, PRINT, PRINT, PRINT...MAKING EVERYONE POORER...POORER...POORER..

[edit on 15-8-2009 by Gateway]

Originally posted by VinceP1974

Originally posted by mental modulator



SIR the government will not perform anything, it will contract doctors and staff, it uses the same frame work that the current system uses. Any of the SIX bills being proposed, NONE intend to outlaw Private insurance... But the good ones intend to protect your rights, protect you from being over charged and ultimately be an advocate .

And the dog is your ideology not you - your dog is fed, framed and presented by highly paid lobbyist to protect their clients interests.

It's going to flood those doctors with many more people demanding services.

It's going to pay those doctors less.

It's going to drive quality people out of providing the services.

It's going to bankrupt when the Dollar collapses

Then what's going to happen ?


[edit on 15-8-2009 by VinceP1974]

Are you paid to say this???

All of you?

Its ridiculous -

Sir if the dollar collapses we screwed anyway you cut it...
I mean what would happen if a meteor strikes?

Do any of you understand that you pay for CFO'S. CEO's STIPENDS, CONGRESSMEN, LOBBYIST, ADVERTS,JUNKETS, LAWYERS, etc... at your expense and at the expense
of countless poor souls who work their butts off pay their bills and get boned ten ways.

YOU guys are working for your masters... AT your pockets expense, all this fear and ZERO solution, you are working for them and against your pockets.

Boggy men -

Originally posted by mental modulator


SIR the government will not perform anything, it will contract doctors and staff, it uses the same frame work that the current system uses. Any of the SIX bills being proposed, NONE intend to outlaw Private insurance... But the good ones intend to protect your rights, protect you from being over charged and ultimately be an advocate .

EXCEPT there will be some 47 MILLION new users to this service, many of which aren't even taxpayers..or even potential taxpayers. (Undefined)

Advocate? An avocate would not be so hasty. An avocate wouldn't have big pharm drooling in their ear at the prosect of expansion.

Plus it sets a precident -- who is to say that the hundreds of gray areas and loopholes in these bills won't be exploited to the fullest in future administrations or congresses. No... Tort reform and restructuring should be a viable, less intrusive alterative. It keep the mandates out of the populous and puts specific attention on glaring inefficiencies.


Perhaps that is what makes us Americans different from you Kiwis.



[edit on 15-8-2009 by Taxi-Driver]

Originally posted by mental modulator

YOU guys are working for your masters... AT your pockets expense, all this fear and ZERO solution, you are working for them and against your pockets.

Boggy men -

uh huh. So now you're against freedom of association, economic freedom, right to property, right to contracts.. and for what?

To leave me at the hands of an organization run by Nancy Pelosi..?

Oh no, I dont think so.

reply to post by mental modulator


Let's ignore AGAIN THE FACT THAT PEOPLE DON'T WANT THIS...

It's simple:

You WANT A new HEALTH CARE PROGRAM THAT CAN COVER MOST IF NOT ALL AMERICANS.

This takes money to pay for this...SO we have to tax, borrow, or print.

Since THE AMERICAN public will not stand to be further TAXED IN A DEPRESSION. AND since no body wants to lend to the U.S. anymore money, we will HAVE TO PRINT NEW dollars to pay for this PET PROJECT, THE CONTINUING 2 WARS, SOC, TARP, FANNIE MAE FREDDI MAC, GM, CHRYSLER, STIMULUS....THIS IS STILL not including the rest of the budget.

DON'T YOU GET IT????????


You are killing AMERICANS HERE...what they can purchase with their money. YOU ARE HURTING EVERY AMERICAN, BY INCREASING THE BURDEN BY THROWING ANOTHER GOVERNMENT PROJECT ON THEIR SHOULDERS.

Originally posted by Gateway
reply to post by mental modulator

 

Besides the FACT that the AMERICAN public does not what this...HOW else do you expect the AMERICAN PEOPLE TO PAY for this NEW program.

Oh that's right SPEND, SPEND, SPEND, SPEND.....MONEY WE DON'T HAVE...the mantra of the liberal....

Or better yet...GET BERNANKE...TO PRINT, PRINT, PRINT, PRINT...MAKING EVERYONE POORER...POORER...POORER..

[edit on 15-8-2009 by Gateway]

We are not talking about ending the fed sir for we would agree on that...

I want this, my mother wants this, my girl friend wants this -

keep your plan dude, but I don't want to pay for CEOs, Adverts, etc.

Originally posted by Gateway
reply to post by mental modulator

 

Let's ignore AGAIN THE FACT THAT PEOPLE DON'T WANT THIS...

It's simple:

You WANT A new HEALTH CARE PROGRAM THAT CAN COVER MOST IF NOT ALL AMERICANS.

This takes money to pay for this...SO we have to tax, borrow, or print.

Since THE AMERICAN public will not stand to be further TAXED IN A DEPRESSION. AND since no body wants to lend to the U.S. anymore money, we will HAVE TO PRINT NEW dollars to pay for this PET PROJECT, THE CONTINUING 2 WARS, SOC, TARP, FANNIE MAE FREDDI MAC, GM, CHRYSLER, STIMULUS....THIS IS STILL not including the rest of the budget.

DON'T YOU GET IT????????


You are killing AMERICANS HERE...what they can purchase with their money. YOU ARE HURTING EVERY AMERICAN, BY INCREASING THE BURDEN BY THROWING ANOTHER GOVERNMENT PROJECT ON THEIR SHOULDERS.

OK good luck then, you obviously possess no knowledge of the current healthcare system or PROPOSALS as of late as much of it is laws and new guidelines to protect YOU.

sorry - tough beans

reply to post by mental modulator

Let's cut to the CHASE:

NO, what YOU, your mother, your girlfriend, want IS FOR ME AND EVERY OTHER AMERICAN TO PICK UP THE TAB FOR YOUR HEALTH CARE.

Again, you are free NOT to pay for insurance...that is the freedom you have! PAY FOR IT OUT OF POCKET! But don't reach into OUR pocket to pay for your trip to the DOCTOR. I REPEAT...THAT IS UN-AMERICAN!!!


[edit on 15-8-2009 by Gateway]

Originally posted by mental modulator


OK good luck then, you obviously possess no knowledge of the current healthcare system or PROPOSALS as of late as much of it is laws and new guidelines to protect YOU.

sorry - tough beans

What could possibly go wrong? bwahahaha

Originally posted by VinceP1974

Originally posted by mental modulator

YOU guys are working for your masters... AT your pockets expense, all this fear and ZERO solution, you are working for them and against your pockets.

Boggy men -

uh huh. So now you're against freedom of association, economic freedom, right to property, right to contracts.. and for what?

To leave me at the hands of an organization run by Nancy Pelosi..?

Oh no, I dont think so.

when did I say any of that???

I am against a system that is run by the industry, an industry that uses government and its influences to gouge my society in this AREA, my f - ing physical well being.

I am against the interests that reach to far in pocket and that i can't VOTE out.

Originally posted by Gateway
reply to post by mental modulator

 

Let's cut to the CHASE:

NO, what YOU, your mother, your girlfriend, want IS FOR ME AND EVERY OTHER AMERICAN TO PICK UP THE TAB FOR YOUR HEALTH CARE.

Again, you are free NOT to pay for insurance...that is the freedom you have! PAY FOR IT OUT OF POCKET! But don't reach into OUR pocket to pay for your trip to the DOCTOR. I REPEAT...THAT IS UN-AMERICAN!!!


[edit on 15-8-2009 by Gateway]

Thank god we are online and not in a room together...

YES the current system is Un American, the robber barons right the laws and taint my government.

I do not want you to pay for me, I want to cut out the middle man, that is my goal...

Originally posted by VinceP1974

Originally posted by mental modulator


OK good luck then, you obviously possess no knowledge of the current healthcare system or PROPOSALS as of late as much of it is laws and new guidelines to protect YOU.

sorry - tough beans

What could possibly go wrong? bwahahaha

Well gnash your teeth extree hard when it happens, enjoy!

Originally posted by mental modulator


Well gnash your teeth extree hard when it happens, enjoy!

4 years to implement. That should be enough time for the Dems to completely implode by ramming unwanted legislation down people's throats.

Less than 36% of the population wants this. That doesn't win many elections.

Originally posted by mental modulator

Thank god we are online and not in a room together...

YES the current system is Un American, the robber barons right the laws and taint my government.

Again...WHO DO YOU THINK IS PUSHING THIS NEW LEGISLATION?

Big pharma, Ama, hospitals....WHY...SO THEY CAN feed at the government trough....

ARE YOU THAT BLIND?!!

I do not want you to pay for me, I want to cut out the middle man, that is my goal...

Look, the only way you will not be screwed...is to OPT out of private insurance AND PAY your own way. That way no CEO will take any of your money, if you are so concerned!!

Having said that, I want MY money in my own pocket. That means I WANT the government OUT of my pocket. If I choose to pay for a private insurance that is my right. But I definitely should not be charged TWICE....PAYING FOR MY INSURANCE AND THEN BEING TAXED TO PICK UP YOURS OR ANYONE ELSE'S TAB!

HELL NO!!



[edit on 15-8-2009 by Gateway]

Originally posted by Gateway


Having said that, I want MY money in my own pocket. That means I WANT the government OUT of my pocket. If I choose to pay for a private insurance that is my right. But I definitely should not be charged TWICE....PAYING FOR MY INSURANCE AND THEN BEING TAXED TO PICK UP YOUR TAB!

HELL NO!!

States like FL, TX, and AZ have legislation in the process ( I think i have the right States) that state that they will not submit to any Federalization of the medical industry.



[edit on 15-8-2009 by VinceP1974]

reply to post by VinceP1974


Yes you have the right States. Obama will tear this country apart if he proceeds with his socialism...

Originally posted by Gateway

Originally posted by mental modulator

Thank god we are online and not in a room together...

YES the current system is Un American, the robber barons right the laws and taint my government.

Again...WHO DO YOU THINK IS PUSHING THIS NEW LEGISLATION?

Big pharma, Ama, hospitals....WHY...SO THEY CAN feed at the government trough....

ARE YOU THAT BLIND?!!

I do not want you to pay for me, I want to cut out the middle man, that is my goal...

Look, the only way you will not be screwed...is to OPT out of private insurance AND PAY your own way. That way no CEO will take any of your money, if you are so concerned!!

Having said that, I want MY money in my own pocket. That means I WANT the government OUT of my pocket. If I choose to pay for a private insurance that is my right. But I definitely should not be charged TWICE....PAYING FOR MY INSURANCE AND THEN BEING TAXED TO PICK UP YOUR TAB!

HELL NO!!

Who do you think stands to lose the money in the deal? If one is mandated to keep the deathly ill on the rosters? The insurance companies???

are you serious?

Originally posted by Gateway
reply to post by VinceP1974

 

Yes you have the right States. Obama will tear this country apart if he proceeds with his socialism...

So I say let the folks like mental modulator who are in bankrupted Democrat-run One Party States , keep thier fantasy that the rest of the country is going to prop them up.

The rest of us will just say "no. you can pass whatever law you want in washington. If it violates the 10th Amendment, it's nullified. you want the tax money.. come and take it if you think you're tough"