The problem with Health Care: "Government involvement"

Originally posted by mental modulator

YOU a corporate foot solder simple put, you and your efforts help preserve the Money and Power that undermines freedom...

So freedom to you is FORCING EVERYONE ELSE to pay for YOUR health care? Some FREEDOM...

Freedom is giving people their money BACK to purchase WHAT they want not what THE GOVERNMENT DICTATES.

YOU have NO idea of what freedom is.

With all the talk of how is the government going to pay for it, how will your kids kids pay for it if it is doubling + in cost every decade??? Internet lobbying award for you

It's not about lobbying for ANYONE. It's about keeping MY, YOUR, AND EVERYONE else's income in their pocket.

YOUR idea of freedom is having FREE HEALTH CARE while the entire AMERICAN public PICKS up the TAB.



[edit on 14-8-2009 by Gateway]

Originally posted by Gateway

Originally posted by mental modulator


My logic would be that my family was categorically screwed by the corporate bureaucracy in regards to two illnesses.

I'm sorry if this has happened in your family. I do not know the extent of your problems. You should ALL pitch-in and help each other, as ALL families should do.

Having said that, why SHOULD I OR ANYONE ELSE have their income expropriated?

I want an alternative, you can keep your care and we can see what works.

That is fine that you want alternative, however you want an alternative that is SUBSIDIZED by everyone else. And this I do not find AMERICAN. WHY SHOULD THE MAJORITY OF THE AMERICAN PUBLIC THAT FEELS FINE WITH THEIR HEALTH CARE, PAY FOR EVERYONE ELSE?

BTW the Corporate interests are those who influence government, you have the equation backwards. Members get voted out, but the true power remains, that is the constant.

Wrong here again....GUESS WHO wants this legislation BIG PHARMA...AMA..and EVERYONE else who wants to feed at the government trough.

But frankly,,, very frankly, I don't care what you guys want, you have had your way since Prixon ushered this in, it will come and this charade will backfire for conservatives. Progress moves and is unstoppable, it is a matter of time.

SEE here we go.

Answer me this...very simple: DOES THE WILL OF THE PEOPLE COUNT OR NOT?

Answer this question before you reply...


[edit on 14-8-2009 by Gateway]

Sure it does, but tis a Bully pulpit -

who do you think are organizing these rallies, sending out the news letter, the viral "letters of outrage" and funding the fear filled commercials??? Those who you have cited as "Pro Reform" are not, they double bill till the day is long have written much of
the policy that creates waste. Much of the reform in a few of the six bills on the table
target wasteful practices... Less the public option there is much that would save you and your employer money.

The public option would create pools for purchasing power for individuals and small businesses.

You already pay for the uninsured anyways, but you pay for a by-pass surgery instead of a course of lipitor...

It will happen in proximity to you - pay five years of premium only to be dropped by slick legal ease... Happens everyday, if you did a comparable act you would be sued and liened upon for years.

[edit on 14-8-2009 by mental modulator]

Originally posted by mental modulator


Sure it does, but tis a Bully pulpit -

Ahh so the public opinion COUNTS you say? But it's saying IT DOESN'T WANT GOVERNMENT HEALTH CARE....shall WE PROCEED ANYWAY?

who do you think are organizing these rallies, sending out the news letter, the viral "letters of outrage" and funding the fear filled commercials???

HERE YOU ARGUE: People are TOO stupid to decide what's GOOD FOR THEM. Hence WE NEED A strong GOVERNMENT to TELL THEM WHAT'S GOOD FOR THEM. Does this not give you any PAUSE?

Those who you have cited as "Pro Reform" are not, they double bill till the day is long have written much of the policy that creates waste. Much of the reform in a few of the six bills on the table target wasteful practices... Less the public option there is much that would save you and your employer money.

Of course my employer will not have to help cover my costs, WHEN the ENTIRE AMERICAN public is force to pay for it, INCLUDING ME...in higher TAXES.

NO thank you.

The public option would create pools for purchasing power for individuals and small businesses.

Businesses, are in the business of making a profit and providing a service to the public. They are not in the business of GIVING ME insurance. That is up to them...if they wish to entice me into their business by providing me incentives.

You already pay for the uninsured anyways, but you pay for a by-pass surgery instead of a course of lipitor...

Huh? How do I pay for the uninsured currently? My premium has not gone up, I don't take-on risky behavior.

It will happen in proximity to you - pay five years of premium only to be dropped by slick legal ease... Happens everyday, if you did a comparable act you would be sued and liened upon for years.

LOOK its very simple. The majority of the American public PAYS for their HEALTH INSURANCE and are HAPPY. THE only ones who are not happy is the MINORITY of AMERICANS that are not covered..and what will make them happy you ask: WELL HAVE THE ENTIRE AMERICAN PUBLIC PICK-UP THE TAB.

THIS IS UN-AMERICAN, UN AFFORDABLE, AND UNCONSTITUTIONAL!!!

Obamas health care,

Like everything the governmetn puts its greedy and dirty hands on it, it turns into crap.

What is in the bill

Page 22 of the HC Bill: Mandates that the Govt will audit books of
all employers that self insure!

Page 30 Sec 123 of HC bill - THERE WILL BE A GOVT COMMITTEE that
decides what treatments/benefits you get.

Page 29 lines 4-16 in the HC bill: YOUR HEALTH CARE IS RATIONED!!

Page 42 of HC Bill:The Health Choices Commissioner will choose your HC

Benefits for you. You have no choice

Page 50 Section 152 in HC bill: HC will be provided to ALL non US

citizens, illegal or otherwise

Page 58 HC Bill: Govt will have real-time access to individuals
finances & a National ID Healthcard will be issued!

Page 59 HC Bill lines 21-24: Govt will have direct access to you
ur banks accounts for elective funds transfer.

Page 65 Sec 164: is a payoff subsidized plan for retirees and
their families in Unions & community organizations: (ACORN).

Page 84 Sec 203 HC bill: Govt mandates ALL benefit packages for
private HC plans in the Exchange.

Page 85 Line 7 HC Bill: Specifications for of Benefit Levels for
Plans = The Govt will ration your Healthcare!

Page 91 Lines 4-7 HC Bill: Govt mandates linguistic appropriate
services.

Example - Translation: illegal aliens.

Page 95 HC Bill Lines 8-18: The Govt will use groups i.e., ACORN &

Americorps to sign up individuals for Govt HC plan.

Page 85 Line 7 HC Bill: Specifications of Benefit Levels for
Plans. AARP members - your Health care WILL be rationed.

Page 102 Lines 12-18 HC Bill: Medicaid Eligible Individuals will
be automatically enrolled in Medicaid. No choice.

Page 124 lines 24-25 HC: No company can su e GOVT on price fixing.
No "judicial review" against Govt Monopoly.

Page 127 Lines 1-16 HC Bill: Doctors/ American Medical Association
- The Govt will tell YOU what you can make! (salary)

Page 145 Line 15-17: An Employer MUST auto enroll employees into
public option plan. NO CHOICE!

Page 126 Lines 22-25: Employers MUST pay for HC for part time
employees AND their families.

Page 149 Lines 16-24: ANY Employer with payroll 401k & above who
does not provide public option pays 8% tax on all payroll.

Page 150 Lines 9-13: Business's with payroll btw 251k & 401k who
doesn't provide public option pays 2-6% tax on all payroll.

Page 167 Lines 18-23: ANY individual who doesn't have acceptable
HC according to Govt will be taxed 2.5% of income.

Page 170 Lines 1-3 HC Bill: Any NONRESIDENT Alien is exempt from

individual taxes. (Americans will pay)

Page 195 HC Bill: Officers & employees of HC Admin (GOVT) will
have access to ALL Americans finances /personal records.

Page 203 Line 14-15 HC: "The tax imposed under this section shall
not be treated as tax" Yes, it says that!

Page 239 Line 14-24 HC Bill: Govt will reduce physician services
for Medicaid Seniors, low income and poor are affected.

Page 241 Line 6-8 HC Bill: Doctors, doesn't matter what specialty
you have, you'll all be paid the same! Doctors will be paid by "bundled"

method. This means they will be paid if and when government wants to

be it once a month or every other. Great way for a business to
predict

cash flow to pay employees etc.

Page 253 Line 10-18: Govt sets value of Doctor's time,
proffession, judgment etc. Literally value of humans.> Page 265 Sec 1131: Govt mandates & controls productivity for
private HC industries.

Page 268 Sec 1141: Federal Govt regulates rental & purchase of
power driven wheelchairs.

Page 272 SEC. 1145: TREATMENT OF CERTAIN CANCER HOSPITALS - Cancer patients - welcome to rationing!

Page 280 Sec 1151: The Govt will penalize hospitals for whatever
Govt deems preventable re-admissions.

Page 298 Lines 9-11: Doctors, treat a patient during initial
admission that results in a re-admission -Govt will penalize you.

Page 317 L 13-20: PROHIBITION on ownership/investment. Govt tells
Doctors what/how much they can own!

Page 317-318 lines 21-25, 1-3: PROHIBITION on expansion- Govt is
mandating hospitals cannot expand.

Page 321 2-13: Hospitals have opportunity to apply for exception
BUT community input is required. Can u say ACORN?!!

Page 335 L 16-25 Pg 336-339: Govt mandates establishment of
outcome based measures. HC the way they want. Rationing.

Page 341 Lines 3-9: Govt has authority to disqualify Medicare
Advance Plans, HMOs, etc. Forcing people into Govt plan.

Page 354 Sec 1177: Govt will RESTRICT enrollment of Special needs
people! Unbelievable!

Page 379 Sec 1191: Govt creates more bureaucracy - Tele-health
Advisory Comittee. Can you say HC by phone?

Page 425 Lines 4-12: Govt mandates Advance Care Planning Consult.
Think Senior Citizens end of life patients.

Page 425 Lines 17-19: Govt will instruct & consult regarding
living wills, durable powers of attorney. Mandatory!

Page 425 Lines 22-25, 426 Lines 1-3: Govt provides approved list
of end of life resources, guiding you in death. (assisted suicide)

Page 427 Lines 15-24: Govt mandates program for orders for end of
life.

The Govt has a say in how your life ends.

Page 429 Lines 1-9: An "advanced care planning consultant" will be
used frequently as patients health deteriorates.

Page 429 Lines 10-12: "advanced care consultation" may include an
ORDER for end of life plans. AN ORDER from GOVT!

Page 429 Lines 13-25: The govt will specify which Doctors can
write an end of life order.

Page 430 Lines 11-15: The Govt will decide what level of treatment
you will have at end of life!

Page 469: Community Based Home Medical Services = Non profit
organizations. Hello, ACORN Medical Services here!!?

Page 472 Lines 14-17: PAYMENT TO COMMUNITY-BASED ORIGINATION. 1
monthly payment to a community-based organization. Like ACORN?

Page 489 Sec 1308: The Govt will cover Marriage & Family therapy.
Which means they will insert Govt into your marriage.

Page 494-498: Govt will cover Mental Health Services including
defining, creating, rationing those services.

At least some people had taken the time to read the bill this are the areas that the governement doesn't want to talk about it, while they are lying to the people about the government healht care reform euthopia

Originally posted by Gateway

Originally posted by mental modulator

YOU a corporate foot solder simple put, you and your efforts help preserve the Money and Power that undermines freedom...

So freedom to you is FORCING EVERYONE ELSE to pay for YOUR health care? Some FREEDOM...

Freedom is giving people their money BACK to purchase WHAT they want not what THE GOVERNMENT DICTATES.

YOU have NO idea of what freedom is.

With all the talk of how is the government going to pay for it, how will your kids kids pay for it if it is doubling + in cost every decade??? Internet lobbying award for you

It's not about lobbying for ANYONE. It's about keeping MY, YOUR, AND EVERYONE else's income in their pocket.

YOUR idea of freedom is having FREE HEALTH CARE while the entire AMERICAN public PICKS up the TAB.



[edit on 14-8-2009 by Gateway]

No my idea is to use government in a manner that will reduce strain on families pockets.

BTW I have insurance ( probably until I get sick)

More than anything I want patient roster clearing gone, I want multiple coding fraud gone...

Originally posted by Gateway

Originally posted by mental modulator


Sure it does, but tis a Bully pulpit -

Ahh so the public opinion COUNTS you say? But it's saying IT DOESN'T WANT GOVERNMENT HEALTH CARE....shall WE PROCEED ANYWAY?

who do you think are organizing these rallies, sending out the news letter, the viral "letters of outrage" and funding the fear filled commercials???

HERE YOU ARGUE: People are TOO stupid to decide what's GOOD FOR THEM. Hence WE NEED A strong GOVERNMENT to TELL THEM WHAT'S GOOD FOR THEM. Does this not give you any PAUSE?

Those who you have cited as "Pro Reform" are not, they double bill till the day is long have written much of the policy that creates waste. Much of the reform in a few of the six bills on the table target wasteful practices... Less the public option there is much that would save you and your employer money.

Of course my employer will not have to help cover my costs, WHEN the ENTIRE AMERICAN public is force to pay for it, INCLUDING ME...in higher TAXES.

NO thank you.

The public option would create pools for purchasing power for individuals and small businesses.

Businesses, are in the business of making a profit and providing a service to the public. They are not in the business of GIVING ME insurance. That is up to them...if they wish to entice me into their business by providing me incentives.

You already pay for the uninsured anyways, but you pay for a by-pass surgery instead of a course of lipitor...

Huh? How do I pay for the uninsured currently? My premium has not gone up, I don't take-on risky behavior.

It will happen in proximity to you - pay five years of premium only to be dropped by slick legal ease... Happens everyday, if you did a comparable act you would be sued and liened upon for years.

LOOK its very simple. The majority of the American public PAYS for their HEALTH INSURANCE and are HAPPY. THE only ones who are not happy is the MINORITY of AMERICANS that are not covered..and what will make them happy you ask: WELL HAVE THE ENTIRE AMERICAN PUBLIC PICK-UP THE TAB.

THIS IS UN-AMERICAN, UN AFFORDABLE, AND UNCONSTITUTIONAL!!!

THE Un part at the end

This system is unaffordable is run by the industry in order to be in efficient, BY DESIGN, it is fascist and represent s a two tier society, YOUR government has been highjacked by the very industry that you lobby for now. This why they are throwing so much money targeting you and others.

And no it gives me pause that so many well intentioned Americans such as yourself are fighting so hard to maintain an elite run farming of the American populace. IT does not give me pause when we all drive on the right side of the road, or that my taxes pay to lock up criminals, save people from burning wrecks or SouthWest requires me not to smoke on an airplane.

We are a government of laws, it is a pliable system laws change and are implemented by the people the citizenry elect. I agree with it and my will is fortunate...

IT is simple for you, you prance around like a lamb healthy... Why is YOUR movement trying to maintain these wasteful and felonious business practices??? Doing nothing, it cowardice or disingenuous or both, does the majority of your money go to BIG BUSINESS or the government??? Ah for the first is the true master - the later is intended to be a tool to better your society and life...

I know who is in power - your equation is off, stem the spread of corporate influence...

And it is the majority of small business that pays MOST for the same care.

You pay for the uninsured because it is imbedded in your PREMIUMS, could get the same care in many other countries for half the price...

You should contact some Aussie members, Kiwis unless they are the new French.

YOU pay for CEO'S. JET PLANES, BILL BOARDS, LAWYERS, STIPENDS, QUARTERLY BONUSES, TV AIR TIME and more - that is tacked on to your premium.

ME and mine and their health is off limits, there is every other conceivable way to make a profit, enough is enough.

[edit on 15-8-2009 by mental modulator]

Originally posted by Gateway
reply to post by badgerprints

 

WAIT....you forgot!! The democrats just want to print money that doesn't exist, to pay for their pet-projects!!

And that is exactly what this is, a pet project.

Why is this being spun as "So very urgent!"

Wasn't Healthcare reform the main point in Hillary's campaign? If it was so damn crucial why didn't she win the primary..and election?

I'll tell ya why, because it isn't.

Originally posted by mental modulator

This system is unaffordable is run by the industry in order to be efficient, it is fascist and represent s a two tier society, YOUR government has been highjacked by the very
industry that you lobby for now. This why they are throwing so much money targeting you and others.

If so then I expect EVERY public official regardless of rank be enrolled EXCLUSIVELY in this Bureaucratic god-send of a plan.

NO EXCEPTIONS!! What is good for the Goose is good for the Gander!

Originally posted by marg6043
Obamas health care,

Like everything the governmetn puts its greedy and dirty hands on it, it turns into crap.

What is in the bill

Page 22 of the HC Bill: Mandates that the Govt will audit books of
all employers that self insure!

Page 30 Sec 123 of HC bill - THERE WILL BE A GOVT COMMITTEE that
decides what treatments/benefits you get.

Page 29 lines 4-16 in the HC bill: YOUR HEALTH CARE IS RATIONED!!

Page 42 of HC Bill:The Health Choices Commissioner will choose your HC

Benefits for you. You have no choice

Page 50 Section 152 in HC bill: HC will be provided to ALL non US

citizens, illegal or otherwise

Page 58 HC Bill: Govt will have real-time access to individuals
finances & a National ID Healthcard will be issued!

Page 59 HC Bill lines 21-24: Govt will have direct access to you
ur banks accounts for elective funds transfer.

Page 65 Sec 164: is a payoff subsidized plan for retirees and
their families in Unions & community organizations: (ACORN).

Page 84 Sec 203 HC bill: Govt mandates ALL benefit packages for
private HC plans in the Exchange.

Page 85 Line 7 HC Bill: Specifications for of Benefit Levels for
Plans = The Govt will ration your Healthcare!

Page 91 Lines 4-7 HC Bill: Govt mandates linguistic appropriate
services.

Example - Translation: illegal aliens.

Page 95 HC Bill Lines 8-18: The Govt will use groups i.e., ACORN &

Americorps to sign up individuals for Govt HC plan.

Page 85 Line 7 HC Bill: Specifications of Benefit Levels for
Plans. AARP members - your Health care WILL be rationed.

Page 102 Lines 12-18 HC Bill: Medicaid Eligible Individuals will
be automatically enrolled in Medicaid. No choice.

Page 124 lines 24-25 HC: No company can su e GOVT on price fixing.
No "judicial review" against Govt Monopoly.

Page 127 Lines 1-16 HC Bill: Doctors/ American Medical Association
- The Govt will tell YOU what you can make! (salary)

Page 145 Line 15-17: An Employer MUST auto enroll employees into
public option plan. NO CHOICE!

Page 126 Lines 22-25: Employers MUST pay for HC for part time
employees AND their families.

Page 149 Lines 16-24: ANY Employer with payroll 401k & above who
does not provide public option pays 8% tax on all payroll.

Page 150 Lines 9-13: Business's with payroll btw 251k & 401k who
doesn't provide public option pays 2-6% tax on all payroll.

Page 167 Lines 18-23: ANY individual who doesn't have acceptable
HC according to Govt will be taxed 2.5% of income.

Page 170 Lines 1-3 HC Bill: Any NONRESIDENT Alien is exempt from

individual taxes. (Americans will pay)

Page 195 HC Bill: Officers & employees of HC Admin (GOVT) will
have access to ALL Americans finances /personal records.

Page 203 Line 14-15 HC: "The tax imposed under this section shall
not be treated as tax" Yes, it says that!

Page 239 Line 14-24 HC Bill: Govt will reduce physician services
for Medicaid Seniors, low income and poor are affected.

Page 241 Line 6-8 HC Bill: Doctors, doesn't matter what specialty
you have, you'll all be paid the same! Doctors will be paid by "bundled"

method. This means they will be paid if and when government wants to

be it once a month or every other. Great way for a business to
predict

cash flow to pay employees etc.

Page 253 Line 10-18: Govt sets value of Doctor's time,
proffession, judgment etc. Literally value of humans.> Page 265 Sec 1131: Govt mandates & controls productivity for
private HC industries.

Page 268 Sec 1141: Federal Govt regulates rental & purchase of
power driven wheelchairs.

Page 272 SEC. 1145: TREATMENT OF CERTAIN CANCER HOSPITALS - Cancer patients - welcome to rationing!

Page 280 Sec 1151: The Govt will penalize hospitals for whatever
Govt deems preventable re-admissions.

Page 298 Lines 9-11: Doctors, treat a patient during initial
admission that results in a re-admission -Govt will penalize you.

Page 317 L 13-20: PROHIBITION on ownership/investment. Govt tells
Doctors what/how much they can own!

Page 317-318 lines 21-25, 1-3: PROHIBITION on expansion- Govt is
mandating hospitals cannot expand.

Page 321 2-13: Hospitals have opportunity to apply for exception
BUT community input is required. Can u say ACORN?!!

Page 335 L 16-25 Pg 336-339: Govt mandates establishment of
outcome based measures. HC the way they want. Rationing.

Page 341 Lines 3-9: Govt has authority to disqualify Medicare
Advance Plans, HMOs, etc. Forcing people into Govt plan.

Page 354 Sec 1177: Govt will RESTRICT enrollment of Special needs
people! Unbelievable!

Page 379 Sec 1191: Govt creates more bureaucracy - Tele-health
Advisory Comittee. Can you say HC by phone?

Page 425 Lines 4-12: Govt mandates Advance Care Planning Consult.
Think Senior Citizens end of life patients.

Page 425 Lines 17-19: Govt will instruct & consult regarding
living wills, durable powers of attorney. Mandatory!

Page 425 Lines 22-25, 426 Lines 1-3: Govt provides approved list
of end of life resources, guiding you in death. (assisted suicide)

Page 427 Lines 15-24: Govt mandates program for orders for end of
life.

The Govt has a say in how your life ends.

Page 429 Lines 1-9: An "advanced care planning consultant" will be
used frequently as patients health deteriorates.

Page 429 Lines 10-12: "advanced care consultation" may include an
ORDER for end of life plans. AN ORDER from GOVT!

Page 429 Lines 13-25: The govt will specify which Doctors can
write an end of life order.

Page 430 Lines 11-15: The Govt will decide what level of treatment
you will have at end of life!

Page 469: Community Based Home Medical Services = Non profit
organizations. Hello, ACORN Medical Services here!!?

Page 472 Lines 14-17: PAYMENT TO COMMUNITY-BASED ORIGINATION. 1
monthly payment to a community-based organization. Like ACORN?

Page 489 Sec 1308: The Govt will cover Marriage & Family therapy.
Which means they will insert Govt into your marriage.

Page 494-498: Govt will cover Mental Health Services including
defining, creating, rationing those services.

At least some people had taken the time to read the bill this are the areas that the governement doesn't want to talk about it, while they are lying to the people about the government healht care reform euthopia

Simple MARG keep your plan, keep it...

I will refer the page on some of these

pg 22 of said bill (which there are 6 versions Marg non passed or finalized yet - your corprate shill lobbyist lawyer mate who pick these must be)

in fact I want a source MARG - this does not read like a bill, it reads like a ghost story spun by a man being paid to regurgitate a favorable corporate outcome.

PG 22. is this a joke Marg? the government will audit employers as it always does, by tax info and consistant employee verification. A vague stretch much?

PG 30. No Marg a board of trustees has the ultimate say which is who currently has the last say less the courts.

Page 29 lines 4-16 in the HC bill: YOUR HEALTH CARE IS RATIONED!!

YES MARG THIS IS WHAT THE BILL SAYS

Page 42 of HC Bill:The Health Choices Commissioner will choose your HC

Benefits for you. You have no choice

uhhhh, go to a private insurer - where they will Determine your benefit for you

Marg this is garbage- it is spun in assertion thru words - where is the text???

And which of the six bills are being referenced?

Protect the master baby!

Originally posted by Taxi-Driver

Originally posted by Gateway
reply to post by badgerprints

 

WAIT....you forgot!! The democrats just want to print money that doesn't exist, to pay for their pet-projects!!

And that is exactly what this is, a pet project.

Why is this being spun as "So very urgent!"

Wasn't Healthcare reform the main point in Hillary's campaign? If it was so damn crucial why didn't she win the primary..and election?

I'll tell ya why, because it isn't.

SO it is not urgent because TAXI DRIVER is in good health!!!

This is hardly a pet project - your opposition is a pet project


FOR the corporate robber barons

You will fail in your opposition because ultimately you do not care on the level I do, this dog believes in the fight, you just want to fight.

"Prancing Lambs"? Mate?

Hmmm... Are you really from Cali? cause I don't really hear some of the words you use here stateside that much..It gives me pause.

Many of the Eurpoean and other countries that have adopted government run universal Health care, just don't have the vast immigration problems we do in America --TODAY--

My suggestion is to fix the immigration issue before we make expensive accomodations into law. ( I know that they still get seen if there is an emergency visit)

It is just logical to define the "citizenry" FIRST, then provide sweeping "benefits" to that well defined citizenry.


The reason it isn't happening that way is because the Democratic party wants to carry the Latin vote. Period.



[edit on 15-8-2009 by Taxi-Driver]

Originally posted by mental modulator
[
SO it is not urgent because TAXI DRIVER is in good health!!!

This is hardly a pet project - your opposition is a pet project


FOR the corporate robber barons

You will fail in your opposition because ultimately you do not care on the level I do, this dog believes in the fight, you just want to fight.

You have NO IDEA! And I am NOT going to go into the very real struggles of my life for you...or your dog.

You just "guess" me and my family are in good health. I KNOW better..furthermore, I don't want to roll the dice on that level of care continuing. The Federal Government doesn't give me ANY confidence they can perform at such a level. PERIOD.

Originally posted by Taxi-Driver
"Prancing Lambs"? Mate?

Hmmm... Are you really from Cali? cause I don't really hear some of the words you use here stateside that much..It gives me pause.

Many of the Eurpoean ansd other countries that have adopted government run universal Health care, just don't have the vast immigration problems we do in America --TODAY--

My suggestion is to fix the immigration issue before we make expensive accomodations into law. ( I know that they still get seen if there is an emergency visit)

It is just logical to define the "citizenry" FIRST, then provide sweeping "benefits" to that well defined citizenry.


The reason it isn't happening that way is because the Democratic party wants to carry the Latin vote. Period.

[edit on 15-8-2009 by Taxi-Driver]

Yup here in Hollywood ready to go to my communism/jihad lesson...

I think that issue is valid... However I am not certain to what extent the "benefits" will
apply either way.

First good point on this whole damned thread -

However there are many points that can be tackled that circumvent that concern.

reply to post by Gateway


The problem with American healthcare:

www.annals.org...
Even cheaper in other countries ... and $1800 mris.

If big pharm, hmos, and insurance companies didn't screw the American public at every turn, whilst ALSO denying people care we wouldn't even be having this conversation.

We are not a Democracy.

The majority does not always rule.

We are a nation of laws, not the mob.

The Constitution determines what the Federal Govt may do and may not do. And it's clear in this regard.. the Govt may not run a Federalized State Run Rationing System.

It's simply too bad what the majority wants. The Framers were not interested in forming a suicidal democracy, but a sustainable Republic.


To be honest... I dont care if anyone can't pay for their fancy schmancy cancer treatment.

If we put the Govt in charge... 60 years from now, today's fancy schmancy cancer treatment will still be fancy schmancy because that will be the end of profit-seeking innovation.

So if you can't pay now... just pretend we had your system for the past 50 years , and get treatment that was considered groundbreaking 50 years ago.

basta!

Originally posted by mental modulator

THE Un part at the end

You find it laughable? I take it you think it's AMERICAN to pay for other people's HEATH CARE?

This system is unaffordable is run by the industry in order to be efficient, it is fascist and represent s a two tier society, YOUR government has been highjacked by the very industry that you lobby for now.

Let me get this straight...

Big pharma, AMA, AMA, SEIU, , the Federation of American Hospitals are now trying to HELP THE AMERICAN PUBLIC?

You are seriously confused and naive to think, the corporations are not lined-up to FEED at the government trough. YOU THINK they are lined up to HELP the taxpayers? Now that's laughable....

This why they are throwing so much money targeting you and others.

I can care less who's targeting me. I'm using common sense... Why SHOULD I OR YOU PAY FOR OTHER PEOPLE'S health care...

YOU STILL HAVE NOT ANSWERED THIS?

And no it gives me pause that so many well intentioned Americans such as yourself are fighting so hard to maintain an elite run farming of the American populace.

You still don't get it. If the AMERICAN people think it's okay. Then they have every right to maintain the system.

Talk to me WHEN the people WANT A GOVERNMENT RUN HEALTH CARE SYSTEM.

IT does not give me pause when we all drive on the right side of the road, or that my taxes pay to lock up criminals, save people from burning wrecks or SouthWest requires me not to smoke on an airplane.

Ok...so what's your point? Are not these things what people asked for? Are people asking for GOVERNMENT run HEALTH CARE?

We are a government of laws, it is a pliable system laws change and are implemented by the people the citizenry elect. I agree with it and my will is fortunate...

Great!! Than why not accept the fact that people don't want this?

IT is simple for you, you prance around like a lamb healthy... Why is YOUR movement trying to maintain these wasteful and felonious business practices???

Felons? In what sense? How is health insurance committing a felony?

Doing nothing, it cowardice or disingenuous or both, does the majority of your money go to BIG BUSINESS or the government???

Nothing? AGAIN....THE MAJORITY OF PEOPLE HAVE INSURANCE IN THIS COUNTRY!!! AND ARE FINE WITH IT.

Ah for the first is the true master - the later is intended to be a tool to better your society and life...

Master of what? So I should BOW to my government? The government SHOULD bow down to IT'S PEOPLE, not the other way around.

I know who is in power - your equation is off, stem the spread of corporate influence...

Hahaah...sure you mean like the corporate industry influencing Obama's bio-fuel industry, or the Banking Industry, or the Car Industry, the Unions...

KID...YOU ARE KIDDING YOURSELF...

And you want MORE of OUR tax dollars to go to other industries? Again...what planet are you living?

And it is the majority of small business that pays MOST for the same care.

That's to do with the TAX CODE. Again a GOVERNMENT institution. (IRS)

You pay for the uninsured because it is imbedded in your PREMIUMS, could get the same care in many other countries for half the price...

No it is not... My premiums are raised according to my age and number of dependents. They do not go up based on the number of people in the U.S. who lack health insurance.

You should contact some Aussie members, Kiwis unless they are the new French.

Funny how the elite, in the countries you mentioned COME HERE for treatment and have to pay-out of pocket. Why don't they stay in there country to receive the Oh-SO-GREAT free medical health care?

YOU pay for CEO'S. JET PLANES, BILL BOARDS, LAWYERS, STIPENDS, QUARTERLY BONUSES, TV AIR TIME and more - that is tacked on to your premium.

I find nothing wrong with BILL GATES flying around in his personal JET, or having a GIGANTIC mansion. He's providing a service...here again you are showing your ENVY for those that provide a service. Instead of debating the legitimacy or the will of the American people of NOT WANTING THIS...you try to appeal to the lowest common denominator of human emotions, that is of hate, and envy.

ME and mine and their health is off limits, there is every other conceivable way to make a profit, enough is enough.

That's fine...don't buy health insurance. Pay for it out of pocket. I still don't understand how you want the entire American people to pick-up YOUR TAB, THROUGH TAXES?

Originally posted by Taxi-Driver

Originally posted by mental modulator
[
SO it is not urgent because TAXI DRIVER is in good health!!!

This is hardly a pet project - your opposition is a pet project


FOR the corporate robber barons

You will fail in your opposition because ultimately you do not care on the level I do, this dog believes in the fight, you just want to fight.

You have NO IDEA! And I am NOT going to go into the very real struggles of my life for you...or your dog.

You just "guess" me and my family are in good health. I KNOW better..furthermore, I don't want to roll the dice on that level of care continuing. The Federal Government doesn't give me ANY confidence they can perform at such a level. PERIOD.

SIR the government will not perform anything, it will contract doctors and staff, it uses the same frame work that the current system uses. Any of the SIX bills being proposed, NONE intend to outlaw Private insurance... But the good ones intend to protect your rights, protect you from being over charged and ultimately be an advocate .

And the dog is your ideology not you - your dog is fed, framed and presented by highly paid lobbyist to protect their clients interests.

reply to post by schrodingers dog


One of the major contributing costs to pharmaceutical drugs in this country is the fact that countries like Canada, and countries within European Union HAVE price controls. They dictate the prices for drugs on the pharmaceutical companies. If the pharmaceutical companies do not go along with the dictated price the government takes their drugs, manufactures it and gives it to their people.

Thus the pharmaceutical company, has to RAISE ITS PRICES here at home to cover THEIR COSTS. Therefore those nations that YOU MENTION are FREE-RIDING at OUR EXPENSE. They also, to the detriment of their own pharmaceutical company STIFLE INNOVATION because they price control their costs. AND Since government is not in the business of setting prices to equal DEMAND, they set the price TO LOW killing innovation an hurting CONSUMERS.

Sorry, but there is no FREE LUNCH...

www.ita.doc.gov...

Originally posted by mental modulator



SIR the government will not perform anything, it will contract doctors and staff, it uses the same frame work that the current system uses. Any of the SIX bills being proposed, NONE intend to outlaw Private insurance... But the good ones intend to protect your rights, protect you from being over charged and ultimately be an advocate .

And the dog is your ideology not you - your dog is fed, framed and presented by highly paid lobbyist to protect their clients interests.

It's going to flood those doctors with many more people demanding services.

It's going to pay those doctors less.

It's going to drive quality people out of providing the services.

It's going to bankrupt when the Dollar collapses

Then what's going to happen ?


[edit on 15-8-2009 by VinceP1974]