How about a new grass-roots movement, vote them ALL out!

Originally posted by AshleyD
reply to post by schrodingers dog

 

The reason I can't do that either is due to that old quote, 'All that is necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing.'

Well, abstaining is not "doing nothing" ...
An apt metaphor would be a girl practicing sexual abstinence.
As opposed to choosing between birth control methods.
It is an active act of passivity, and no one gets boinked ...
Same would apply to politics.

So I don't believe abstaining would be a good course of action either. Someone said in a recent thread, there are people all over the world who die for the right to vote.

True, but we would not be disrespecting them ... they fought for our right to vote not to be forced into voting.

I understand a vote can feel meaningless and hopeless but I don't plan on bypassing that right. Even an inch of action is better than none.

Agreed, it's just a matter of recognizing that there is no "out" within the system.
Like I said yesterday, there's no point in changing spoons when it's the soup that's rotten.

Originally posted by mikerussellus

Why not play the game, but change the rules?

See soup comment above ...

Plus, that's what mankind has been doing forever, yet are we any less subjugated then serfs. Oh sure, we have toilets and other cool stuff, but the power structure is still the same other than the names/terminology has changed.

Nope, no matter ow you slice it, change from within and participation in "the game" will always be cosmetic at best.

[edit on 14 Aug 2009 by schrodingers dog]

reply to post by schrodingers dog


I see what you're getting at in terms of passive resistance and how inaction can actually be action in a way. I just don't see how not voting would be the kind of passive action that would benefit anyone especially when voting is passive in itself.

True, but we would not be disrespecting them ... they fought for our right to vote not to be forced into voting.

That's not what I was getting at. lol First of all, we're not being forced to vote. And I didn't necessarily point that out due to the respect factor but to show how precious the right to vote can be.

We take it for granted and sometimes fall into the trap that our votes don't matter. So if you choose to abstain- more power to you. That's your right. But I'll be at the booths.

I see what you're saying, though. I know there are a lot of people out there who have given up on the voting process and it's their way of making a statement. I'm just saying that's not for me. Neither is voting out all incumbents. But instead going to the booths with knowledge and discernment.

reply to post by AshleyD


But I'm not talking about staying home and doing nothing hoping that the ptb gets the message.

I'm talking about a grass root movement to go to the booth and vote, but either vote blank of vote "abstain" if the choice is available.

So we're voting and participating in our democracy, but it's a vote for dissent rather than picking a lesser of two evils.

Imagine if millions of peeps do that, no one party has over 51% majority. Consider the message sent and its implications.

Now that is a message.

Nope, no matter how you slice it, change from within and participation in "the game" will always be cosmetic at best.

That's where I have to disagree. If what you say is true, then why bother, really. Why wake up and go to work? wy try to fend for your family? why try to better yourself?

Fight, but fight to win. Fight, but fight dirty.

Don't give these bastards a chance.

Beat them at their own game. That's their weak point. They have assumed for too long that this flank is covered. Attack. Attack at their weakest point. The silly little rules that they still follow to keep them in power are their true Achilles Heel.

Politicians are nothing but people. Some weak, some strong. Some with opinions, some with mirrors that reflect your opinions back at you.

But they are just people. People who have had a job way too damn long.

reply to post by schrodingers dog



It's sending messages that could be misinterpreted. Look how they mangle simple straight-forward issues now.

Kicking them ALL out with send the message.

reply to post by schrodingers dog


I see. Sorry I'm tired. lol That would definitely be very interesting.

I'll have to give it some more thought but I'd still prefer to cast an actual vote because I know there will be people who are still going to show up and vote for those who do not have America's best interest at heart.

I guess the issue I have with casting a blank vote is that those who would tend to do that would be the 'aware' people while all the, er... mindless masses... to put it politely, would still show up to vote for whatever name they saw the most on a campaign sign.

IMO, we need as many awake and educated citizens as possible to vote instead letting the uniformed make the decision.

reply to post by AshleyD


It's not so much a "blank" vote as it is an "real" vote. Stop believing in the incumbents. Really, they are no different than those who will say/do anything to stay in power.

If you vote, vote with your heart. But try to understand that this won't stop after the next election, or the one after that. . . ad nauseum. . .

Until real change is affected.

G'night folks. I'll pick up on this in the am.

Originally posted by AshleyD

I'll have to give it some more thought but I'd still prefer to cast an actual vote because I know there will be people who are still going to show up and vote for those who do not have America's best interest at heart.

I guess the issue I have with casting a blank vote is that those who would tend to do that would be the 'aware' people while all the, er... mindless masses... to put it politely, would still show up to vote for whatever name they saw the most on a campaign sign.

But what difference would that make Ash?
That's what we've been doing forever ...
Going back and forth between two false choices ...
How many reactionary "vote them bums out" movements are we going to have before we realize that those we vote for are interchangeable figureheads?

IMO, we need as many awake and educated citizens as possible to vote instead letting the uniformed make the decision.

Ash, we could limit voting to mensaers, academics, industry leaders, elites, or walmart greeters, it won't change the candidates.

reply to post by mikerussellus
Oh,yes the "vote them out" idea sorry but it won't work because in the end it does not matter what party you vote for the game is rigged and the powers that be will insure they will get the people they want in office one way or another.So,good luck with Operation:Clean Sweep.

reply to post by schrodingers dog
Abstain now,that is something I can get into overload the system!! make it run to the brink of collapse! I wanna see all the anchors on CNN,Fox and MSNBC having nervous breakdowns and ranting about open rebellion.



[edit on 023131p://3526 by mike dangerously]

A clean slate I'm all for that! I'm sick of both groups too.As long as they cant take contributions from any group,that's how we got in this mess.

reply to post by mikerussellus


This is a good idea,

I think a better idea would be for every single American to stay home and not vote at all because these days any of the mainstream candidates can't be trusted. They're all puppets, why should we kick out one set of puppets just to put in another? Let's all stay home on election day so none of them can take office and then we'll start finding people who actually give a care and will listen to the American people to put into office...

reply to post by Titen-Sxull


The idea is to get rid of the incumbents. Not allowing them to stay in. The only message they'd get would be we let them stay for 6 or 4 more years.

The message we need to send is ,"GET OUT!"

The last I checked, a few years ago, the budgets of the entire gov. in the US were equal to 75% of the GNP. Meaning, that is what we pay in total taxes, hidden and obvious. I know it has gone up, alot, since then. We the people need to reduce that govt. back down to TEN PERCENT. A lot like pulling teeth. First up, reduce the pay of ALL the elected jobs, and govt jobs. They are, on average, 50% higher than the private sector. And once they have gone thru probabation, they are almost impossible to fire. So, make their jobs pay 80% of private. And reduce the politicians jobs even more, since they get all kinds of perks, and a guaranteed job after their power trip. Further, cut out 90% of lobbyists. A few of them are necessary to advise Congress about what is needed. The atmosphere in Washington is one of bribery and corruption, looking to sway laws in businesses favor. And we need to go to a flat tax, figured as percentage of budgets to GNP, no exceptions. The rich in this country, if they know what they are doing, pay ZERO tax. Quiet little add-ons to law, or just by following the govt. and putting their money into tax free investments. That is wrong. But But but....That is wrong! The whole concept of rewarding investors who put their money into your projects with zero taxes is fundamentally flawed. NO ONE should be able to pay no taxes. And NO ONE should have to pay over 15%. That is not what freedom and free enterprise consists of. People will just have to stop sucking on the teat. It is not governments job to be nursemaid, and parent.
And I suggest we name it 'the Tea Party'.

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If you were a politician running against a Congressional incumbent and was aware of a large large movement that is determined to kick out all the incumbents for some of the following reasons

not considering the American voice, spending tax payers money with no consideration for taxpayers, their lobbyist connections that caters legislation to the corporate world, their inability to pass meaningful legislation to ensure present and future success

Wouldn't you make sure not to make the same mistakes the incumbents are making?

reply to post by Darthorious

I'm pretty sure this will start happening slow at first but then it will pick up speed until Washington starts questioning what's going on assuming the votes are counted and our system still works. Which is just another whole can of worms in itself.

I have always voted the incumbent out. I figure it takes a new pig time to find the trough

That said. I have already met and agreed to help support a third party candidate for the senate. Everyone should try to make sure the "Diebold type electronic voting fraud" machines are illegal in your state. Also volunteer to work the polls if you can.

blowoutcongress.com

This is at best an incomplete solution and, in fact, it could make things worse. If you put a whole new crop of politicians in there (that don't know how DC works) then the Bureaucrats get to run wild. What we REALLY need to do is get rid of all of the Bureaucrats! They are the ones who really run the Country - NOT the Politicians....Politicians come and go, but the people working in the halls of power (the Bureaus) generally stay there for 20-30 years, and whoa Nelly, talk about Golden Parachutes - you don't think the Politicians are the only ones who get the big money from Lobbyists and Special Interest Groups, do you? So the only complete solution would be to replace all of the Bureau heads as well as the politicians...unfortuntely there's only one group strong enough to do that - the Military. The problem with the Military is that they are in bed with the Defense Contractors....and the Defense Contractors like things the way they are.

Unless your effort is to kick out the Republican and Democrat parties, there is really no point. Otherwise, we'll just get the same big-government big-interference jerks but on a different side of the Republican/Democrat coin. There will be no change whatsoever and the corporations who run things now will simply continue to run things the same way as before. The fact is that such an effort should only support candidates who are not Republican or Democrat.

you are not in charge, never were, never will be...even the actions of the founding fathers did not go unanticipated...

if change does occur...it wont be from the sheeple.

the vast majority of people are still quite stuck in the mental labyrinth that has been built for them in a variety of different areas. You must escape them all even to come close attaining real freedom and prosperity. That isn't going to happen...

when you discover within yourself what they[parents, friends, teachers, cops, government, the system...] are keeping from you and have robbed from you since your birth then you will know freedom. Till then back to the pasture...

ps. cause i am feeling generous today i will tell you what they took, your volition...

good luck

notice the baby in the bottom left, he hasn't been robbed yet...
vigilantcitizen.com...

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