Cops and Government Goons ARE the Terrorists

For those of you needing confirmation that Government equals terrorism.

Check out my friend stefbot's YT channel

I highly recommend his "Statism is dead" series:

If you are short on time, just watch part 5 (last one on terrorism & politics)







You will understand why he is an anarchist, and so am I.

Good to see some enlightened posts like thse once in a while, Kingpen.

That is exactly the main key to what's really going wrong with this political system... that the police have been given total monopoly of violence, and the legitimacy to use it as well, and that the only entity that can actually protect armless civilians from these fascist dogs are... civilians themselves! This is where the anarchists, rioters, gangs, revolutionary brigades and militias come into perspective and they get all their rationale from. It's not about what the government's policies are, it's more about on which side of the Congress -or legislative assembly- you are... inside or outside, rather than left or right. It's about how the laws and policies are enforced, and what power the people have to revert or change policies if these go against their needs, rights and freedoms... but when there are State-run terrorists scaring the sheeps into respecting "the-order-of things-as-they've-been-decided-by-the-ones-up-above", then there is no more "liberty", or "democracy" whatsoever. There is only fascism.

There is NO form of accountability for cops, as there is NO third party enforcing them into respecting laws and the rights of the people. This is the big flaw that most citizens fail to notice. Although there are people above them within the legal system, like attorneys, judges and lawers, they are part of this system. They are the protective (and repressive) arm of the government... and the political elite, no matter who they are, needs to give them the full monopoly of violence, or else they will lose power themselves. This is why you rarely see cops 25 years sentences for murders comitted on duty... if they ever get to be prosecuted, they will often get away with it by just being fired from their job, and to the worse having to do some unpaid public service.

The capitalist State is based primarly upon its military force, and the police ARE an occupational military force. This is why you don't see soldiers doing operations in broad daylight within your own country's borders most of the time, because the Army is made for foreign operations ("colonization", as they used to call it in the good old days)... while the police is the domestic army, aimed at terrorizing civilians to keep them into line. This is the harsh reality that you don't learn at school or on FOX news, folks, and the sooner you wake up to it, the better it will be for your freedom.


[edit on 11/8/09 by Echtelion]

reply to post by Bushido Kanji

Maybe once you're a cop you can tell me what to do about the cop who is making my life a living hell because she is screwing my (recently) ex husband, I've gone to her supervisor, I have tried taking her to court (its been magically thrown out twice) Everyone knows she is psychotic but because of the "code of blue silence" I can't seem to get anywhere.

Originally posted by Dark Ghost
It all comes down to the perspective of the beholder. Somebody I consider a freedom fighter might be somebody you consider a terrorist and vice versa.

It's unfortunate you lump "Cops" with "Government Goons" because they are not the same. Police officers are public servants who are employed by taxpayers to enforce the law and keep the peace (or that was the original idea at least).

Personally, I feel people who go to public areas and blow themselves up in an effort to kill as many civilians as possible are terrorists and not freedom fighters. They strive to cause chaos and instability and have no regard for the welfare of the general population.

There have been lots of threads lately emphasising mistakes and unlawful acts done by law enforcement officers over the last year. I would have to agree there is a potent effort to make Policemen (in the West) look corrupt and immoral. It's funny because these people feel it is fine to use Anti-West propaganda to demonise the West, but they cry the loudest when people from the West attempt to do the same.

[edit on 11/8/2009 by Dark Ghost]

I certainly cannot belittle your opinion or position. I do agree that this all comes down to a matter of perceptions, hence the usage of the word in the original post.
I think you will find that it is not only I that lump cops and gov. goons in the same category where the perception of terrorism is concerned. They are all SUPPOSED to be civil servants, in a regard. There have been plenty of screw ups by govt. agencies as well as law enforcement. When EITHER of these two types uses terror to coerce compliance, then they qualify.

I'm not so sure there has been an 'effort' as you put it, to discredit cops lately. I think the effort is on the part of the people who perceive injustice, becoming more vocal about their disapproval. I have found many that are mad at cops for busting them for one thing or another, that was against the law. I have found probably just as many that are fearful or angry at the cops simply because they feel they have overstepped their boundary and limits on power.

A funny thing about those 'freedom fighters'...The U.S. has a long, colorful history of funding these groups through arm sales, hostage deals and ways I don't even understand, to destabilize, or overthrow regimes that it has deemed 'oppressive.' The trouble is, eventually we turn our backs on them and somehow, mysteriously, they turn in to terrorists and then we have to use more money, only this time to fight them.

There is a fine line between having the power to kill in the name of law, and maintaining humility as a public servant. I don't like it, but humility seems very absent in almost every cop I know.

I have no doubt that since my opinion differs from what is expected of me by those in power that I qualify under at least a few, if not all of the criteria listed in the Op. Perception is a very funny thing though. As YOU are here, having this discussion, on THIS board, chances are, YOU are considered one as well, even though your stance is decidedly 'pro cop.' I'm not discounting your opinion and I appreciate your input. In the end, it raises awareness and we all benefit from that.

Thanks for the post.

Originally posted by Ambient Sound
"Nothing good ever comes from talking to the police."

I'd call that terrorism, as well... it's crazy how far we've come from the times when LEOs were considered our protectors.

N.W.A. said it best...

Dont you people understand that there will always be terrorism around, there will always be bad people around, its just the way the world is. Always was and always will be. if there were no bad people dooing bad things, ie. killing, our ballance would shift and the whole world would go to pieces. The verry thing that is terrorizing us might be the thing holding us together.

reply to post by RaikoMutich


Ah gawd, my brain is melting. Your joking, right? Ah Gawd!!!

Unity through being terrorized? I am speechless should you be serious.

reply to post by KSPigpen


I cannot speak on behalf of the dictionary, but my definition of a terrorist is as follows :

A person who incites the fear of imminent death, by verbage, action, or peception of action.

A question for those who are American, and I am American, do you honestly think England teaches their children that "the Colonies" just decided to ask us to leave one day, or that through the history of England they may in fact teach that our Founding Father's were in fact, terrorists?

Just a thought, not that I am stating that as a fact or a perception of my own, but I wonder exactly how the American Revolution is taught in England and the rest of Europe.

Think about it for a minute, if you will, and you might stop to consider things differently.

A bunch of "Colonialists" dressed as "savage Indians" sneaking into Boston harbor, and capturing the ships and throwing tea into the harbor as a protest to unfair taxation might be percieved as a "terrorist action."

Originally posted by RaikoMutich
Dont you people understand that there will always be terrorism around, there will always be bad people around, its just the way the world is. Always was and always will be. if there were no bad people dooing bad things, ie. killing, our ballance would shift and the whole world would go to pieces. The verry thing that is terrorizing us might be the thing holding us together.

In a way, Raiko, I suppose I agree with you. On a silly sort of level, at one time the T-rex could have been the terrorist.

Evidence suggests that prehistoric Europeans wiped out Neanderthals. I suppose that was a terror filled experience. Not too much a difference there, except the Europeans weren't HIRED to PROTECT the Neanderthals.

There's a lot of debate about whether that's the job that cops and govt. agencies are getting paid for as well, but the cop cars in MY town still say 'To Protect and Serve.' on them.

And I think your last statement really is fairly profound. I would normally think that terrorism is a method of isolating, instilling fear and subjugating the victims. When I think about it more critically, I think of how the rallying cry the last ten years has been, 'we have to defeat the terrorists!' Of course, the terrorist was a boogymany from a different country, but perhaps things aren't too different now.

I think a core need for humans is to group together, to seek out like-minded individuals and create colonies. Strength in numbers....to protect ourselves and each other from the 'terrorists', whether they be spear-wielding, more advanced prehistoric humans, or hungry dangerous animals. Hmm...sometimes it seems like we're all just a mix of both.

America is a terrorist. (People are the government there, because it's a DEMOCRACY)

Let's jsut say that Americans generally support what the government does or else there would have been revolts like in France.

Originally posted by SpartanKingLeonidas
reply to post by KSPigpen

 

I cannot speak on behalf of the dictionary, but my definition of a terrorist is as follows :

A person who incites the fear of imminent death, by verbage, action, or peception of action.

A question for those who are American, and I am American, do you honestly think England teaches their children that "the Colonies" just decided to ask us to leave one day, or that through the history of England they may in fact teach that our Founding Father's were in fact, terrorists?

Just a thought, not that I am stating that as a fact or a perception of my own, but I wonder exactly how the American Revolution is taught in England and the rest of Europe.

Think about it for a minute, if you will, and you might stop to consider things differently.

A bunch of "Colonialists" dressed as "savage Indians" sneaking into Boston harbor, and capturing the ships and throwing tea into the harbor as a protest to unfair taxation might be percieved as a "terrorist action."

I think I understand what you are expressing and I agree. The United States was founded on terrorism. The filthy rebels took over a young nation and cast off the chains of their oppressors. (well...right before they put a lot MORE people IN chains)

Of course, those 'filthy rebels' are the founding fathers of a great nation. A nation that has almost come full circle.

If there is anything I have learned from this exercise, it's that an individual's perception is really all that matters. If someone blows up a building to cause fear, or to dissolve a government, that sounds like terrorism to me. If an army, large or small, of armored people line a street to keep me from expressing my opinion, that also sounds like terrorism to me. If the expressing of my opinion means that I try to burn down a building, then I am the terrorist.

It is not lost on me, that the very people that claim to be fighting terrorism end up being the terrorists themselves. That would apply to me as well. If I perceived a group of people as being terrorists, and then did everything in my power to eradicate them, it is very likely that they would perceive ME as the villain, or terrorist, or oppressor.

In fact, the definition is so very broad that many, many things could be encompassed by it. Segregation for one. That sounds like a different thread though. Thank you very much for your thoughtful insight.

I only have one thing to say.

"First you must learn how to smile as you kill, If you wanna be like all the folks on the hill." -John Lennon

Originally posted by die_another_day
America is a terrorist. (People are the government there, because it's a DEMOCRACY)

Let's jsut say that Americans generally support what the government does or else there would have been revolts like in France.

That is a very valid opinion, one shared by many, I fear.

America is a nation. I don't think a nation can be a terrorist. The people that make UP the nation certainly could be. They could also, through their silence and lack of action, allow a tyrannical government to oppress and destroy other civilizations.

The average American can be a bit extreme, sure, but I don't think they are the devil or anything. They are 'lead' by a government that oppresses and uses terror to control the people and wage wars on other lands.

The WHOLE of America is not this way, but we have been conditioned to think there is little to nothing that we can do about it. So we watch as our 'leaders' rape and burn another country in the name of freedom, or destroying terrorism, or whatever other reason they have rallied the mindless masses behind and the atrocities multiply.

Are the 'leaders' of America terrorists? I think they mostly are. How about the average citizen? Nah, I don't think so, at least not until it becomes necessary. Again, these are just perceptions on my part.

Thanks for the input.




[edit on 11-8-2009 by KSPigpen]

Originally posted by Bushido Kanji
reply to post by FritosBBQTwist

 

This is going to be my final point that I am going to make..

Anyone can be a terrorist, whether it be a government official, a police officer, a...banker..or an ordinary person. You cannot discriminate one group of people and subject all of its inhabitants to a label, especially one such as terrorist.

This is one of those situations where you have to pick them out one at a time.

[edit on 10-8-2009 by Bushido Kanji]

True , but the police force is the arm of the goverment...if there are good guys in there they need to get out, we will need them after we empty the trash.

We do have a mess on our hands and its a fine line in places, it is not going to be easy.

You honor this discussion with your comments, Echtelion. I really appreciate your effort to share your opinions with us.

I'm hard pressed to disagree with anything you have expresses, save one detail.

There is NO form of accountability for cops, as there is NO third party enforcing them into respecting laws and the rights of the people

I have read a few, not many, but at least some accounts of cops or corrupt government officials being prosecuted and imprisoned for offenses against their office. There remains, a reluctance on my part to paint EVERY cop, or EVERY govt. official with the same brush.

The disparity between the responsibilities of an average citizen and those in power when it relates to the prosecution of crimes is undeniable. A judge can sentence a man to six months in prison for yawning in his court room, while another judge escapes prosecution for self-gratification behind his desk while court is in session.

Sometimes I feel as though the entire system needs cut out, and started over from scratch, but I fear that we would eventually end up in the same place.

With too much power given to ANYONE, as humans, our ability to govern or treat others equitably dissolves. I don't know what the solution is. I have been conditioned to believe that laws are necessary for the functioning of our society, that our legal system is fair and unbiased and that those in power are 'representatives' of their constituents.

In years prior, through witnessing ludicrous, unnecessary regulations, injustice thought the legal system and complacent narcissism in our 'representatives,' my foundation for belief in this society, once called great, has been torn to shreds.

We the people should make "the terrorist list", not the government or any government. This way we can put the real terrorists on the list and expose them for who they really are.

We should put up a voting scheme, so the people may by democratic vote elect who the terrorists are. Being on this list should have consequences, while the people do not have much military power so to speak, we can however deal with the organizations and governments by other means.

Originally posted by ravenflt
We the people should make "the terrorist list", not the government or any government. This way we can put the real terrorists on the list and expose them for who they really are.

We should put up a voting scheme, so the people may by democratic vote elect who the terrorists are. Being on this list should have consequences, while the people do not have much military power so to speak, we can however deal with the organizations and governments by other means.

That is a scary thought.

For your information: democracy has failed throughout the history of mankind.

The fact that every government is idolizing democracy (and forcing this image on you) does not mean by default that this is the best form of governing.

Ask the ancient romans, Rome was doing fine until they introduced democracy....

[edit on 11-8-2009 by Truth4hire]

reply to post by KSPigpen


I'm all up for bashing the police when they step out of line. However there are many fine officers out there and i find it rather sad you basically tarred them all with the same brush in your original post. I'm dating a police officer, she's very nice and is a liberal supporter! She, and her other collegues i have met are very nice people. Whilst i understand the psychology that uniforms and positions of power can cause changes in people (Zimbardos' experiment) i don't think it could cause all police officers to abandon their morals and treat civilians so badly.

Put yourself in the position of a police officer on the front line of a protest. You are fearful of trouble and if trouble surfaces you want to stop it immediately before it spreads. Someone punches your shield and tries to force you back. Do you ignore this or take that person to the ground before things get out of hand? You don't enjoy it but you must keep the peace.

When a police officer steps out of line they need to be attacked like the power abusing scum they are, but lets not paint the police as an enemy.

I personally would fear the security forces more than the police because it is the security services who provoke the violence in protests. There are even videos of protestors trying to stir up trouble and then showing ID to the police and walking through blockades! The police aren't even aware of their presence until they start showing their ID.

reply to post by Marked One


Cops and Military are two different areas but Military does normally draw its ranks from the lower classes of society where as richer classes dont worry about enlisting unless they really just want to "serve their country". Lower classes are in it for the money. Also lower class status' is highly associated with negative atmosphere, poverty, drugs etc. So when you link military to cops just because a lot of them go into those positions... your making a huge mistake. A lot of military (and im not saying all of them) go to kill people... they want to "Kill Terrorists"... some want the honor... some just want the money. Its never a good to stereotype because all groups have the potential for greatness... or corruption.

If I really look at it though, you make a good point that a lot of people in the military are racist like your friend... some are yes but some are not. I personally went to highschool where there was a lot of racial tension. I had a couple of black friends and a couple of mexican friends... vs more white friends. The reason for me is association. White people do the things i grew up doing and that I like doing... its interesting too that my black friends enjoyed doing what we "whiteys" did but there "brothers" told them they better watch their backs if they are going to start acting white. Thats a large part of the culture today... there is still a lot of negative tension based on slavery. So what can we do? One day things will be better... but how far away is that? So i just try to respect everyone. I workout a lot, i talk to black people, white people, olive people, light brown people, a lot of peoplee... when i talk to them im talking to them... not their color, and Im talking about topics close to their own soul... real topics... ya know... a real conversation. In my opinion thats what the cops should be doing... talking to people instead of colors and I have a feeling that some of the military guys your talking about see color.

I do realize also that cops have to appear in control for fear of their lives. Statistically cops that appear to be nice and dont take control of the situation die a lot more often. The Government does studies of it. Thats why a lot of times cops come off as @$$ Holes. They are told to take charge and be like that, that way if the person is aggressive to an authoritative postion they are also more likely to be agressive to people of "equal" status. So if a cop comes off as rude he either really is an @$$ or is worried about his safety. I got pulled over for speeding one top and he came up being an ass, i told him i realized i was speeding and im sorry i have a 5 speed and my gas is more fuel effiecient at that speed, he relaxed and said well i suggest you stay in 4th blah blah but he was nice about it and he gave me a warning.

I dont have the anwsers to why cops are corrupt, but i do know there are people studying it and trying to fix it. Im not going into the police force to be a dictator, in fact I really want to trasfer into investigations... catching the real threats... but... you can only do what you can do. There are some good ones and there are some bad ones. If you encounter a bad one... report them... the police force wants you to, and needs you to. I know in my county the Sheriffs Dept is trying to get rid of 2 cops because they are "dirty" its hard to legally get rid of them for the reason of... "being dirty"

You have the emergence in human society
Of this thing that's called the state
What is the state? the state is this organized bureaucracy
It is the police department. it is the army, the navy
It is the prison system, the courts, and what have you
This is the state -- it is a repressive organization
But the state -- and gee, well, you know,
You've got to have the police, cause..
If there were no police, look at what you'd be doing to yourselves!
You'd be killing each other if there were no police!
But the reality is..
The police become necessary in human society
Only at that junction in human society
Where it is split between those who have and those who ain't got

-Omali Y e s h i t e l a

Opening lines in the song 'Police State' by Dead Prez. Makes perfect sense to me

DG

[edit on 11-8-2009 by Dirk Gently]