ATS has been invaded

reply to post by audas


from your understanding, are these people to which you refer, "hard right wing 'christians'?" just trying to figure out if there's any basis for the op's entry.

reply to post by undo


They are - although not sure if that is just coincidence.

Either way - the comments regarding Christianity are fair enough - this website is about Above Top Secret - this website is NOT "I am going to preach whatever I told to by the Christian right" - and that is fair enough.

The very premise of this website is about open INDEPENDENT thinking, and unfortunately those who are suffering under the delusion of religious indoctrination are by default those who least deserve to be offering their biased, contrived, premeditated opinions formulated for them by the "Church".

Further the very premise of this site, in fact its MOTTO is to DENY IGNORANCE - in other words to reject the status quo, to reject the the mainstream and definitely reject the gospel of authority which is epitomized by the Church and State - the teachings of the church and / or the state are exactly what this website seeks to reject - the very foundation.

So the only reason that people come on here with their religious diatribes is to disrupt those who have no desire to continue the brainwashing and indoctrination of the past 2000 years and seek to find the truth out for themselves.

The fact that the Church simply redefines itself every time it is found to be patently absurd, ridiculous, wrong, evil, criminal etc,etc only serves to prove how incredibly nefarious and how they seek to control the masses through brainwashing and indoctrination, a mass hypnosis of entire generations through mystical hogwash draped in moral condescention delivered with authority and legitimized through the power structures of wealth and enforced through the state apparatus. The constant reinventing of itself at every realized accusation of falsehood, as mentioned, is the most poignant illustration of ANTI-ATS behaviour - to simply deny the history of the church, its profound evil, its nefarious teachings, its constant breaches of human rights, civil liberties, sexual discrimination and sexual deviancy, its profound corruption epitomized by the VATICAN itself.....

Which part of religion being the ANTI-THESIS of ATS do you not quite get -

but to answer your question no, the poster in question is not generally an outspoken Christian .......

reply to post by audas


okay now that's not a fair assessment of anyone, including christians in general. just for your consideration:

there are christians who also follow buddhist teachings
there are christians who also follow hindu teachings
there are christians who believe in evolution
there are christians who believe in many of the same things you do and some of the things you do not
there are christians who never post on this site
there are christians on this site, who never get involved in political arguments because they're too controversial
there are christians who are mean horrible people.
conversely, there are people of all walks of life who are mean horrible people

your description of "christians" is an indoctrinated pre-made brainwashing meant to dissuade you from actually considering each person as an individual (which we are!). it's too pat. it's too stereotyped and frankly, it's a bunch of hogwash.

Originally posted by heyo
reply to post by Ha`la`tha

 

Your post is right on except for what exactly defines policing? Is not one side disagreeing with the other policing? No?
The whole idea around free speech is that ther should be no preconcieved parameters. period.

Well, debates are by their nature argumentative; but civil. Once the civility of an argument/topic gets beyond the TOC then rather than attack back, or argue against, there is the option to U2U the member hoping they understand.

The next step is to use the report button.

My point was, threads are often left to the point a MOD comes in and has to clean it up. We all suffer for that.

Policing just means a generous effort to understand an oppiosing view, UP til it becomes offensive to all participating.

1 complaint would mean little. a majority of complaints warrants a moderation.

It beats sitting on your hands when you see someone being a goose and letting others do the job of cleaning it up en masse, when all it takes is a Ahoy, to get a quick sweep into the bin of a few untowards posts.

reply to post by undo


Nope - sorry - Christians are Christians. As I said it is the attempt to constantly redefine themselves - you have just stated that Christians are (sometimes) buddhists etc - this is my point exactly - NO YOU ARE NOT. Christians who believe in other gods or deities are committing a cardinal sin and will go to hell - OR - the religion is false.

Further if you believe in evolution - then you simply have no place whatsoever for God. end of story - its that cut and dry.

One or the other , not both ways.

reply to post by audas


don't tell people what they are and are not! they know what they do and do not believe. what gives, audas?

you mean cathars are not christians?
en.wikipedia.org...
gnostic chrsitians are not christians?
www.thepearl.org...

i remember having a conversation with a guy about biblical principles. i didn't use any of the bible venacular to do so. he had no idea i was talking to him in paraphrased bible language (my paraphrasing of course). he wholeheartedly agreed with the premises of the conversation. the moment he found out i was talking to him about biblical concepts in normal venacular, he went ballistic and accused me of being a hindu.
people get hung up on concepts. accuse other people of being hung up on concepts, not realizing the entire time they were only limiting their viewpoint and not the reality of the situation.

reply to post by alien




Said in a much better way than could have, and with all the gusto of someone having been through it to the n'th degree!!

Cheers Mate!!

Man, you've been here since almost DOT ! thank you! Star back at ya for that!

Originally posted by undo
reply to post by audas

 

don't tell people what they are and are not! they know what they do and do not believe. what gives, audas?

you mean cathars are not christians?
en.wikipedia.org...
gnostic chrsitians are not christians?
www.thepearl.org...

i remember having a conversation with a guy about biblical principles. i didn't use any of the bible venacular to do so. he had no idea i was talking to him in paraphrased bible language (my paraphrasing of course). he wholeheartedly agreed with the premises of the conversation. the moment he found out i was talking to him about biblical concepts in normal venacular, he went ballistic and accused me of being a hindu.
people get hung up on concepts. accuse other people of being hung up on concepts, not realizing the entire time they were only limiting their viewpoint and not the reality of the situation.

The entirety of Christianity is based upon the bible - Vegetarians are often this way by sound personal ethical choice - Hitler was a vegetarian - therefore Hitler was ethically sound.....NO.

AS I have stated CONSTANTLY Christians seek to redefine themselves and align themselves to other religions, ethics, morals etc in order to confer credibility to themselves or their ideas, or more nefariously to usurp the good work or ideas of others and hence garner more control or authority - the current Anglican of Archbishop of London has recently done exactly this by claiming that being environmentally aware is a Christian moral and it is sinful not to try and do the right thing -

Well sorry this is just garbage - the Christian doctrine is the bible, anything else is merely a personal deviation from the bible - the personal teachings, or ideas of any man, are exactly that - non Christian ideas - the only Christian ideas that are even possible are ones from the Bible - there is no other.

You may be a Christian and hold Christian thoughts, and you may also agree with Hindu or Buddhist thoughts, just as you can be a Christian and agree that trees have leaves, but you can not be a Christian and a Buddhist, you can not be a Christian and an Environmentalist, as they are diametrically opposed - they negate each other -

as soon as you are picking and choosing your religion you are admitting that the religion is fallible, has errors or is somehow false - to do so even in part is to admit that this is not the word of God - and to do THAT it to admit that he does not exist.

The suggestion made to separate ATS and PTS might help. Personally I could do without the political squabbling, it becomes a race to stupid.

The irony here is that portions of this post have outlined the behavior and post quality of which is not being sought.

Finally when one of the current highest rated posts is this, well it speaks for itself really:

www.abovetopsecret.com...


brill

reply to post by LoneGunMan


Why are you the one to judge who is "mindless" or not? Are you doing it because someone aint sharing your opinion?
Do you want a secretive cabal, where you can be one of the chosen few?
Looks like that to me.

But let me break something to you. Free thought exchange needs people like the ones you despise, otherwise it would be just like minded people with nothing to discuss basicly.
Stop beeing so condescending, you can learn stuff from a right winged, christiAn nazi, as well as from an native american shaman, if you´re curious and open minded.

Just sayin´

Greetings from Germany

reply to post by audas


i'm allowed to redefine myself because i'm an independent, thinking, human being. you are the one that wants me to fit into a little box and stay there. then you can complain about the little box. that's a circular argument. you can't pigeon hole people. every person is different as they are the sum total of their life experience and no two people view anything exactly the same.

Hi
This invsion is great, that means the message is spreading, you just have to provide some credible evidence to back your claims, there are lots of real conspiracies out there but some people think everything is a conspirasy which does more harm than good

I have not really been on here all that long, but my original reason for visiting here was to try to learn things you can not find out elsewhere. Along with what I had hoped at the time interesting and intelligent conversations. So here are my thoughts and feeling on this topic, right or wrong who knows?
This site has become to big to monitor or navigate easly. Links all over the place along with ads. Try to find a topic on something and it takes time to find it and when you do which thread do you use? None of the Mods seem to force this at all. Some days you can see three or four threads on the same topic on the main page. From what I can see this is caused sometimes by newer folks each starting a thread under a different forms. When you try to find the right one it is not that easy ( I a not talking about those who have done this a lot but new folks) Take a hot topic button like the town hall debates, where does it go? Politics? Conspiracy? Wacked out birthers? American citizens speaking their mind? It could go under any or all of them depending on your viewpoint. Why not make it easy. Set up a team to put it the right form? You make your post and post it, the team then decides where it belongs, if someone else makes a post like it it is moved to the original one .
As to the flag system I guess it is fine for those who are into that. So what not expand that? Anyone who attacks another persons post just because they do not agree with it loses points. I see a lot of posts on here I think are anywhere from dumb to ignorant. But it is that persons view and as of right now it is still somewhat acceptable.
So my suggestion is to streamline the site with tighter control. Those who want to make trouble will give up and leave. punish those who do not support free speech and others viewpoints. Those who are here to exchange information will keep on posting. Make the site clean and simple to navigate.

It does not matter who says what. Say what you have to say. I don't write here for "fun", I write to spread my ideas, "propaganda" !

This does not mean my view of the world does not change and I do not care about what answers I get. I started posting on forums a long time ago and soon realized how pointless it is to argue with everyone who disagrees with you. Takes too much time.

I like when I get some stars and flags, to some people who agree with me I don't answer - just because the answer would only be "yes"

Some answers I feel are not worth the time to argue with them. As I said, I don't see writing here as some "yes, funny forum, now let's go watch TV". My initial purpose was to spread the word about 9/11, now I write about other stuff, but the purpose is somehow the same : "spread information" ?

Dose not matter how many people are here or what do they write. The more the better. Some people write interesting posts, some not, can't talk to all, post what you like and read the same, more people on the forum means more people you can reach if you have something to say



[edit on 10-8-2009 by pai mei]

I love how the OP is basically upset that there are people who who disagree with Obama. Therefore making them "right wing Christians". How ironic that his comments are so hateful and acidic as the comments he claims to be tired of.

You complain about "MSM posters". yet ATS runs MSNBC banners that spew out left wing talking points all day. I cant get on the forums without seeing an MSNBC banned about the "angry right wing mobs", every single day.

reply to post by undo


Sorry but I have in no way pigeon holed anyone - I have merely pointed out the facts - if this somehow makes you feel threatened, as it clearly does, then perhaps you should reconsider your perspectives. The facts are facts. I have pointed out the realities of the hypocrisy of Christianity.

Further you seek to define what is and is not allowable in my arguments with spurious claims to freedom of self definition, of individualism, of the freedom to self determination and a right to the uniqueness to be whomever you wish etc,etc - however this is the exact antithesis of what is taught in the bible - you are providing an EXACT example of my argument - you are a living empirical argument of why Christianity is false - God - your God - has defined you - he made you - he has provided laws for you to live by and has defined your life and the way you should live it - IF YOU DO NOT AGREE WITH THIS THEN ONLY ONE OF TWO THINGS CAN BE TRUE :

1) GOD IS WRONG - and if this is the case, then there can be no God, because God can not be WRONG -

2) YOU ARE WRONG - IN WHICH CASE YOU ARE A SINNER AND WILL GO TO HELL.

AND EITHER WAY - I AM RIGHT. Either God does NOT EXIST , or you are wrong about your views in this thread.

reply to post by LoneGunMan



This is something I don't understand from some people such as yourself.

Did you actually know that this nation was founded by Christians who saw themselves as Republicans?

Do people like you have any idea of what being a Republican really means?

It doesn't mean being a Christian, I am not a Christian.
It doesn't mean being pro-corporate. Corporations should not be above the law, and they certainly should not be in power.

Being a Republican means being an advocate of the Republic, which is what the United States of America is.

Being a Republican is being against all forms of dictatorships.

Being a Republican is believing in defending, and upholding the Constitution of the United States, the Bill of Rights within it and understanding what the forefathers of this nation meant when they wrote the Declaration of independence.

I wonder why there are some people, including Americans who faint at the mention of the word "GUN", or the fact that the forefathers of this nation saw it wise to give as a right to all future generations of Americans " the right to own and bear arms" among others.

I'll continue being a Republican until the day I die even if the Republican party ceases to exist, and you know why? because being a Republican doesn't depend on a party which for the most part has succumbed to greed just like all Democrats in power have.

Even if there was just one party called "the Demoliberals" i will still see myself as a Republican because i believe in the principles which the forefathers of this nation believed in, and I believe that the best way of government is a Republican form of government, and not a Socialist dictatorship, nor even a Corpocracy.

Not all Republicans are Christians, nor even "bible thumpers" like some people like to claim.

Being a Republican doesn't mean i agree with everything every Republican does, or say and certainly it doens't mean I will follow the Republican party into a well if they all line up and jumped in, but i will continue being a Republican.

Are there bad Republicans? sure, just like there are bad Liberals, and bad Democrats.

You say you don't like Republicans, or the "right" because you claim "they just regurgitate the MSM", but how many Liberals keep cheering for president Obama and the current administration even thou in 8 months the current administration has shown itself to be worse than any other?

The current administration has screwed up everything they stucked their nose in, you think they will do better in healthcare?...

As to "these new regulations" that the mod who responded to your post was mentioning. I hope this is not the same thing that happened last time when "the right" was demonized and at least some fo the staff members agreed on allowing this to happen. You know why? because you will be simply demonizing a group of people who don't all fall into one label, and this will only be a form of supression against a group of people for their belief. Do you really want to do that?

Ughhhhh!!!! Grrrrrr!!! and Hmmphhhh!!!

I visited this particular topic, because I agreed with the sentiment of the OP, and was heartened to see general agreement in the early replies.
There is definitely a bond, a togetherness, at the core of those who believe in what ATS is, was, and what it should be, and I, as a newbie can but bow down and salute you. You guys are absolutely right, and long may you continue the fight.
But..... (why is there always a but?? lol)
As usual, the thread has degenerated into political and religious name-calling. One of the very things that the OP was so concerned about!
Please, PLEASE, everyone, just take a deep breath and think.
Go on... it'll do you good!
Think before posting anything which could be interpreted as defamatory,
Think before putting the boot into the beliefs and belief systems of others,
Think before dismissing the specific views of others.
We are ALL different, we are ALL individuals (I'm not!! lol), and it is this variety, which brings exciting, interesting and alternative views to the fore.
If you don't have specific original views of your own, then just enjoy all the free entertainment that the real contributors bring to these pages! You do not have to chip in with the same old re-gurgitated MSM garbage. If it does not bring anything to the discussion, then please, PLEASE don't post.
I strongly agree with the earlier poster who suggested giving someone who goes off-topic or too political/religious etc a U2U chat, out of the forum, in an attempt to keep the postings on-track, then reporting said individuals to the MOD should this approach fail. It's up to the core of real ATS contributors to take charge. I don't think it will go away if you ignore it. I think you need to weed it out!

By the way... my own (miniscule) pet hate is the mis-use of the terms There, (as in "the UFO was over there"
Their ("They took their camera to the scene")
and
They're "They're now posting the pictures"!!!! You hardly come across a single thread now, where these are not randomly mixed up!
Ohhh, and please don't leave! We need you to carry on the fight!
G

I tend to notice trends, and a gradual trend is occurring in this forum and other communication media places like U-Tube. I see a form of manipulation that occurs when groups are pitted against one other, for the purpose of creating the need for instituting content control . Well!!! it has been done to mainstream media and now it is being done to the Internet as this country moves toward a form of Fascism or Socialism whatever form governs this nation regardless it will not be Washington calling the shots but banking concerns which control the new world.

reply to post by audas


well that's the problem, they aren't the facts. they are only your opinion, which is not necessarily any more factual than my opinion.

for example, the idea that christians can't be environmentalists. do you know how many democrats and environmentalists are christians and that there are even socialist christians? there's not a party line! remember this if you don't remember anything else i said... there's not a party line! it's not set in stone. nothing ever is.

as far as biblical texts are concerned -- there's a lot of christian based texts out there. heck the catholic bible has more books in it than the protestant one does. and the mormons have the bible and then their own extra bible to boot, called the book of mormon.

christianity isn't the worship of a book. it's the worship of a deity. the book is helper material and it isn't isolated to just that book or christians wouldn't read anything else...ever.