Why I'm Tired of People Opposed to Health Care Reform

Originally posted by mikerussellus
I think your premise is wrong. People are shouting at these townhall meetings because THEY already know what is in the bill. Any talk, pablum, diatribe, out of DC is just that. Talk. They are trying to sell a bill that does not help anyone.

The poor get medical care already. If this bill passes, they would get lower quality of care.

A main cost (especially in California) is treating illegal immigrants. With this bill, they would still get that care.

Unions, elected officials are exempt from this type of healthcare.

Coming from the UK (I'm now an american) it is socialized medicine. This bill takes control from the people and places it in the hands of those elite that think they nkow better than us.

Bush spent trillions. Obama has spent trillions more. Comparing those two won't work.

The minutia in this bill (HR 3200) is disgusting. Long lines, longer waits, lower standards of care, letting the elderly, the mentally challenged, the very young, die is a nightmare.

This plan forces the avaliability of abortion onto a system that voted not to have it.

Most people in this country are happy with their current system. Does it need to be improved? You're damn right it does. But changes this radical won't make a bad sitution better, it'll make it worse.


[edit on 8-8-2009 by mikerussellus]

What about the people who don't have any health insurance? What about half the people in this country who go bankrupt solely as a result of medical bills?

Nothing in the bills says anything about letting old people die. I am fed up hearing Fox News talking points. Fox News and the groups busing people in are financed by Health Insurance Companies who will say or do anything to kill this. Honestly, do any of you believe that the Health insurance companies don't have an enormous incentive to lie or manipulate people to kill this legislation? Health Insurance Companies are motivated solely by PROFIT. They make money by DENYING CLAIMS. They do not want to see you get better if it will cost them more money. We have all known this for a long time and now suddenly we are all pretending as if they love us. They don't.

Stop watching Glenn Beck and think for yourself. Beck is motivated by $30 million dollars a year. He only gets that money if he brings in ratings. He can only brings in rating by nurturing hatred and fear like a newborn baby. He exploits the ignorant so he can get a big paycheck from his sponsors - Health Insurance companies, Far right-wing groups, and the wealthiest 1%. He convinces you that somehow your interests are in line with a person making 100s of millions a year simply by dropping words like "freedom," "patriots," or "communists." He labels his sponsors' enemies as your enemies. He tells you that the country will implode at the hand of his enemies. He tells you to yell and scream rather than to listen and ask questions. He convinces you to hate and fear everyone except him, to distrust everyone except him. He convinces you that everyone is brainwashed EXCEPT you. Once he has you in his pocket, he can do with you whatever he wants because you let him.


[edit on 8-8-2009 by andrewh7]

reply to post by Demetre


Didn't he COBRA his employer coverage? It was just improved, I believe.

Cobra

[edit on 8-8-2009 by hotrodturbo7]

reply to post by js331975


Just read the bill then come back and post intelligently on the topic. You will not like the consequences when they ram this through. Or are you a Dr kavorkian devotee

reply to post by js331975


Thank God someone else gets it. The Republican leadership is flat out lying to people and saying that Obamacare will KILL them....it's insane. The Right has lost the argument and all they have left is fear and smear, gutter tactics. These people at the Town Halls by and large have NO clue what the hell they are upset about either, they're just being told what to believe by people in the media who have an axe to grind. The worst part of all this is the Republican's simply cannot get their act together and move to the middle and that is weakening them. I don't trust Democrats much more than Republicans and if the Republicans continue to act stupidly the Democrats will have too much power, and when either party gets too much power bad things happen in America.

reply to post by Violet Sky


Violet Sky I agree with you. Couple a days ago I posted a link of
Michael Moore's Sicko (www.documentary24.com... ) that I thought would be something good for ATS members to watch it. But it looks like the Agents of Health Cartel is busy spreading misinformation about Obama's Health Plan. Seems to me nobody watched it. How can one trust the opinions of such members.

Originally posted by bladerunner44
reply to post by js331975

 

Just read the bill then come back and post intelligently on the topic. You will not like the consequences when they ram this through. Or are you a Dr kavorkian devotee

More empty rhetoric. "You're either with me or you're with the terrorists." You're either with me or you like to kill people.

Bush has taught you well. People aren't stupid.

reply to post by mikerussellus


Thanks for your well thought-out reply. I'm afraid that I was so mad after reading the initial post, my reply would not have been as thoughtful or as tame. It's a little odd to me that the left-wing Obamamaniacs cry about freedom of speech and freedom to protest, yet when someone disagrees with the Dear Leader they just want to shut us up. Well, this time, those of us who didn't drink the KoolAid are not shutting up and letting these fools lead us blindly into the darkness.

reply to post by js331975


wow dude, get a grip.

First, lets face faces here.. obama just squeaked by. ever watch the polls?

second, boy, you sure paint a bleak picture of the world. I guess I must be wealthy because I have my own health insurance. wow, mom will be so proud. Now just to work on that money part.

You see, here's the thing, as a white middle class male with an education and decent job.. we're tired of paying out the backside for the rest of you low lives who deign to stand there and insist that everyone owes you something.

You want it all and you want it for free. Worse, you think the governemnt is going to do it right. Holy crap man, what freaking universe have you lived in, and do they have bus service?

Look at public housing...
... same organization thats going to bring you your health care.

good luck

For me, this all started with 9/11 and the Patriot Act.

HURRY, HURRY, HURRY....PASS THE BILL....OR THE SKY WILL FALL!

I've got one for ya...

HURRY, HURRY, HURRY...Pass the bill to audit the Fed...OR THE SKY WILL FALL.
NO...don't read it...there is NO TIME....JUST HURRY. Just pass it!
WE have to know where the ten trillion dollars that has gone missing went.
So PASS THE BILL....HURRY. IF we could get our ten trillion back, EVERYTHING
WILL BE OKAY....
....
....
HURRRRRRRRRY!!!!!!!!!

Oh Great. Yet another person who buys into the hollow word of "healthcare reform", and then fills the meaning with what they think healthcare is going to be, rather than seeing what it actually is about, while at the same time referring to everyone else as being the idiots.

When will people wake up and realize these are hollow words? If I say I am going to make things better, the people will cheer and support it. When will they realize that they cheer and support their own assumptions on what that means?

What I think is better isn't the same thing as what you think is better. But yet if I am vague and only say I want to make it better, then you would support it? And that doesn't seem to be idiotic?

You vote for a king under the delusions of what a system could be like if you were king. And in the process you say it is ok for their to be such a thing. And yet, in the end you are not going to be king, and it's not the system or things in your head that you end up supporting. Wake up and smell reality, so we can stop pretending it's strawberries and get rid of the stench.



[edit on 8/8/2009 by badmedia]

Originally posted by rival


For me, this all started with 9/11 and the Patriot Act.

HURRY, HURRY, HURRY....PASS THE BILL....OR THE SKY WILL FALL!

I've got one for ya...

HURRY, HURRY, HURRY...Pass the bill to audit the Fed...OR THE SKY WILL FALL.
NO...don't read it...there is NO TIME....JUST HURRY. Just pass it!
WE have to know where the ten trillion dollars that has gone missing went.
So PASS THE BILL....HURRY. IF we could get our ten trillion back, EVERYTHING
WILL BE OKAY....
....
....
HURRRRRRRRRY!!!!!!!!!

Hurry? - how long have we been trying to reform health care? If this doesn't happen now, then it never will. It's far easier for the president and congress to do absolutely nothing, and they will if this move is abandoned now.

No one gave proper consideration to the invasion of Iraq but now we have to slow down to use money on AMERICANS. The DOD asks for millions for a jet - that's fine take it. American people need their own money for their own health coverage - take your time, delay it, and kill it.

[edit on 8-8-2009 by andrewh7]

[edit on 8-8-2009 by andrewh7]

You, the author of this thread, must be very young and naive.

Your spirit is strong, and you obviously have much energy.

It takes years sometimes to find the truth to an answer.

I suggest you take that time before you think you have all the answers.

I agree, only idiots or comfortable rich pigs would want things to stay the way they are.

Health care is too expensive. Insurance makes it so, and the insurance itself is too expensive.

Instead of paying the salaries of these insurance companies we should be paying taxes for our healthcare. It would be the best kind of tax we could have, as opposed to a tax that just pays to kill people in other countries. Paying for healthcare directly with our taxes would reduce costs for everyone. and at the same time provide good health care for anyone who NEEDS it.

reply to post by allclear


calm down yoda

reply to post by andrewh7



If your main concern is cost, then fight for tort reform, not hitting insurance companies. Also, if you extrapolate who actually CAN'T get insurance, it's more like 5 -10 million people. So we punish the 300 million people with care they like for the 5 million who don't have it?

Sure sounds like "spreading the wealth" to me.

reply to post by CoffinFeeder


YOU HAVE HEALTHCARE, YAYAYAYAYAAY, LETS CELEBRATE, BRING OUT THE CHEESE PUFFS

Listen dude. Being poor is not a choice. I can assure you that. Your social money status comes from your descendants. If your descendants had money, then most likely you will too. There is, a percent of poor people that manage to become successful, but the amount of work that they have to do is far greater than the amount of work someone who already lives in a comfortable life.

It's not that poor people are lazy, its just that they were unlucky. Look, were all here in this planet together. Lets get along and help each other instead of trying to grab as much money as we can for ourselves. The whole money system is a sham to begin with, lets at least make it practical for everybody. The society we have here on earth is sick, and the kind of attitude your putting on attributes to alot of it. Compared to the thousands of other civilization in the galaxy, we are a joke. There are aliens placing bets on us that were not going to figure out how to live with each other and well be dead within 50 years.

reply to post by mikerussellus


Listen dude, the 'punishment' the 300 million people is just money.and a small percent of their earnings at that OH NO, I DONT WANT THAT TO HAPPEN, BOOHOO. I WANT MONEY, IM GONNA HAVE A TANTRUM IF WE ALL HAVE TO PITCH IN EQUALLY FOR OUR HEALTH.


While the punishment that 5-10 million receive is what? Death?


sure sounds worth it to me.

Originally posted by js331975
This was a note written by a friend of mine. She's an individual that doesn't react emotionally but rather thinks things through. Also I've included a response to her post.Okay people. I’d like to clarify some things.

First I want to say that the reason I posted that yesterday was because I had spent part of the afternoon doing my usual on the interweb, when I saw video of people disrupting the town hall meetings that have been arranged throughout the country to try to explain single payer healthcare. The protesters have been chanting nonsense and screaming over the speakers as they try to inform the public of what it’s all about. See, they have been unable to explain it – just explain it – through other regular channels because of people like Fox News etc. who rip it apart without letting the information get out there. In this day and age people do not look for information, they do not research or inform themselves, they take what is readily given to them. And when supposedly impartial journalists are shouting at you that the government just wants to tax you into the next century, it causes otherwise reasonable people to panic and get angry, which is exactly what they want to happen.
These people shouting were a ‘grassroots protest’ designed to disrupt the exchange of information and that pisses me off. It’s one thing to protest an idea or something terrible that is happening, and I am all for that - trust me, but to protest informing the public is absurd. Idiotic.
This is living proof that it is not just the information you are given but the quality of that information. How can you make up your own mind and make your own choices if you do not expose yourself to all sides of an issue?

You have to question the motives of any group of people that does not want you to think for yourself.

Right now the conservative right is angry. They lost big this last election, and are going out of their way to sabotage every move, every decision, every idea this new administration has so that they can say “See, it doesn’t work. It’s going to cost you more in taxes and make life harder than it already is.” Then you’ll vote for them again and everything will go back to the status quo – which as you can clearly see by the state of things right now (failing health care system, failing environment, failing economy, failing education) that the status quo doesn’t work. Things change and are changing – and have to change. It’s the nature of living things to evolve, and this goes for societies too (RE: compare today with say, the 1950’s).

Single Payer Health Care is a good thing. It is not the government deciding the fate of your health. Nor is it new. We already have various forms of it in this country: Medicaid for example. It is not perfect, but it is the only recourse for people living below the poverty line who cannot afford to pay an insurance company.
All that this new health care plan is, is an alternative option for people in the middle class. It is an option that will both give you health care coverage if your insurance company drops you, and fill in the gaps of coverage that you may find yourself needing. It is not enforced enslavement to a government system. It’s an alternative.

First off, your primary statement calls anyone who does not support your position for a Single Payer (Socialized) Health Care Plan an IDIOT. May I remind you that folks who do not feel the same way you do consider YOU to be the IDIOT.

You do not make more friends by hurling insults. It only shows how immature you really are.

And NO, I do not support your position for Nationalized Healthcare ! Look at the Canadian system, the British System and the Castro System and you'll find plenty of sucky ugly inefficiences there. Not the types of healthcare system we need here in America.

reply to post by Danang71


Freedom of speech also means letting people know when you want someone to shut up



SO SHUT UP



boy do I love freedoms

Originally posted by stevedel0Health care is too expensive. Insurance makes it so, and the insurance itself is too expensive.

I will respectively disagree. What causes both healthcare providers AND insurance companies costs to rise is the unnecessary burden placed upon them (especially hospitals) to provide essentially "free" healthcare at emergency rooms for indigents, illegal aliens, and the poor who cant afford it, as well as for people who are in accidents that take lives (like drunks that kill someone, but we 'save' their life at the hospital).

See, those costs are not actually FREE. Someone has to pay. So, we either have to FORCE people through the only legal means available to the government, which is taxation, to pay. Or, we have to face the more logical and historically accurate conclusion, that just because someone WANTS to be treated for an ailment - even a life threatening one - doesn't mean they have a "right" to that care. If you dont want to work, but want to live under a bridge, then you dont deserve a free ride at the hospital. I dont want to pay for that kind of cost.

Get that sort of thing reconciled, and those costs reduced, then we can start to work with health care providers and insurers to lower their costs.