Our ancestors arrived here 17,000 years ago.

Originally posted by Kandinsky
Atlas of the Human Journey is a good place to check that people (homo sapiens) just like us in almost every respect were roaming around way before 17000ya.

True but what had we been doing in the preceding 180000 years?
Stay tuned new thread in the works

Originally posted by SLAYER69

Originally posted by Kandinsky
Atlas of the Human Journey is a good place to check that people (homo sapiens) just like us in almost every respect were roaming around way before 17000ya.

True but what had we been doing in the preceding 180000 years?
Stay tuned new thread in the works

I hope you've checked my link, it should be required reading for ATSers. Then again, where would the fun be?! I'll be looking forward to a new Slayer thread. Before you launch the thread watch this video...



It's good stuff, but pay close attention from 10 minutes. There's a few suggestions about what we were doing for 180000 years

Originally posted by SLAYER69

Originally posted by Kandinsky
Atlas of the Human Journey is a good place to check that people (homo sapiens) just like us in almost every respect were roaming around way before 17000ya.

True but what had we been doing in the preceding 180000 years?
Stay tuned new thread in the works

The link Kandinsky posted goes back to about 195,000 years ago starting with Oma I and II in Ethiopia. But the information is a little sketchy maybe your new thread will have more detail.

Originally posted by Odessy
whether this is real or not, and I suppose its as real as it feels to each of us, I love watching and reading about this stuff.
To, me, its just interesting.
It doesn't really matter to me if we know how real any of this is, just that we know we are remarkable beings capable of many things. Usually these vids talk about love, and how can that be bad?

Spreading a message of peace and love is good. Spreading a bunch of pseudoscientific misinformation is bad. Please continue spreading the former and stop spreading the latter. There is plenty of objective evidence to judge the accuracy of these types of claims for anyone who is willing to look for it. Simply accepting what somebody tells you and not looking at the objective evidence doesn't make it real, it detaches the person ignoring the objective evidence from reality. Hey I love a good sci-fi flick as much as the next person, so nothing wrong with experiencing a fantasy as long as you know what it is. Unfortunately, some people don't know how to tell fantasy and reality apart sometimes.

Originally posted by john124
This guys idea of proof is not how real proof is obtained.

He proved he's an nutjob though....

....this theory is as poor as flat-earthers and creationism!

One piece of advice -> reality is much more complicated and fascinating than than attempting to concoct a seemingly fantastic story based on a bunch of photos & conjecture!

Look what happened to the plum-pudding model of the atom - that was thought to be logical & accurate in 1904 until experiments around 1911 proved otherwise.

You simply cannot guess nature and where we came from as the details would be so intricate that you have to build up a picture step by step logically.

The only way forward to achieve that with scientific experiments, where the proof is in the Maths.

We don't want to go backwards now do we!? Not since science has been advancing and making breakthroughs every year or so. We don't want to go back to the dark-ages where we believed in mythical beings and events based on a limited human perception alone - where humans were even fearful of solar eclipses etc.

We are supposed to be living in a more enlightened era, where we don't base our thinking on fantasy stories, except for pure entertainment purposes.

Well said John124. I agree with most of what you said, except the part about "we can't guess where we came from"...actually we can. See the link that Kandinsky posted. The human genome has left footprints over time that, along with archaeological evidence, allow is to guess a great deal about our history (the link is included again at the very top of this post).

Most of us are living in a more enlightened era, where we base our beliefs on facts and evidence rather than fantasy, but apparently not all of us. But don't expect everyone to join the enlightenment. As Albert Einstein once said, "Two things are infinite: The Universe, and Human __________(edited out for politeness)". Some people will believe ridiculous claims no matter how far fetched with no evidence at all, or hoaxed evidence, so maybe Einstein was right.

reply to post by Kandinsky


Thanks guys yeah I've seen that. This is going to be a collaboration but my partner in crime has been AWOL for over a week.

Originally posted by mapper

Originally posted by whitemotel

Originally posted by aceace
reply to post by Nohup

 

Sure we may have 40,000 years of proof of existence. The question is what was our intelligence like 17,000 years ago. Were we more ape like - did they change our DNA to where we could figure out how to make buildings instead of living in caves.

any proof our dna has changed?

[edit on 7-8-2009 by whitemotel]

Have you seen videos by Llyod Pye Human Orgins Intervention Theory

Its quite interesting. Basically shows DNA evidence that we were created from an alien / earth species hybrid. Earth parts so we can be better adapted to life here on earth.

Yea, I love this man , he rules, I made a thread, no one comments on his 'claims', all posting are targeted at me us an Nut ... This man have things in the works.
The starchild is about to go into the Gene Sequenser in late 2009 or early 2010 ... I soo hope they get absolute proof Humans are Alien Creation, as in the Bible , God made men in his image....

[edit on 8/8/2009 by ChemBreather]

Human DNA reveals evidence for Intervention. Lloyd Pye discusses the smoking gun inside human DNA- humans could not have evolved by mutation and natural selection. 2009.

How old is the Sphinx? Who built the Pyramids? Lloyd Pye scientifically refutes the ability of stone age humans to create structures such as the Aswan Obelisk and other megaliths.

reply to post by ChemBreather


Moving heavy stone obelisk is not impossible. It took levers, ropes and rollers, and lots of muscle; a document from the reign of Ramses IV, circa 1150 BCE, lists 8,362 men as being involved in the haul of one stone, not counting the 900 who died in some way during the process. Also the current course of the Nile is now further from the pyramids than it used to be.During flood stages water would have touched the base of the pyramid!Theres the water erosion for the Sphinx. So written records from Egypt confirm they moved them. And we know water was able to get to the pyramid shot down both his theories rather quickly.

reply to post by ChemBreather


I watched the Lloyd Pye videos on human genetics and the pyramids and ancient structures and they raise interesting questions.

However he's comitting a logical fallacy in his argument called Arguing from Ignorance. For example:

-Nobody can explain how man could have made the pyramids (or the monolith).
-Therefore, man couldn't have made the pyramids (or the monolith).

His conclusion is not supported logically. At best he has only proven his first point, that nobody can explain how man could have made the pyramids (though I'm not even 100% sure about that point). But just because he doesn't know how man did it, doesn't prove man didn't do it. But like I said the video is interesting, as it does raise questions about how it was done. I am fascinated by the workmanship in fitting old stones together, so I'm as impressed as Lloyd Pye is by that. However I don't share his "our ancestors the dummies" point of view.

Just like today there are a few brilliant people, and a few really stupid people, with most others fitting on a bell curve in between, it seems likely that has been true going back many years.

He commits the same logical fallacy in his genetic argument:
-I can't understand how the genes could have gone from 48 to 46 via natural processes.
-Therefore the genes couldn't have gone from 48 to 46 via natural processes.

Again, he raises interesting questions, that I would like to know the answers to. Was there a genetic bottleneck? Was it caused by a catastrophe hundreds of thousands of years ago and if so, what was it? As long as we have unanswered questions in various fields they will be exciting topics to research as we try to find answers.

To really answer these questions we really need more research and more evidence. It's fine to propose different theories, that's how science works. Now we have to find a preponderance of evidence to show which theories are correct.

Anyway, it was enjoyable to watch those videos, thanks for posting them.






[edit on 8-8-2009 by Arbitrageur]

Originally posted by dragonridr
reply to post by ChemBreather

 

Moving heavy stone obelisk is not impossible. It took levers, ropes and rollers, and lots of muscle; a document from the reign of Ramses IV, circa 1150 BCE, lists 8,362 men as being involved in the haul of one stone, not counting the 900 who died in some way during the process.

Thanks Dragonridr, I thought we might figure out how they did it but I didn't know about that document, do you have a link to it or more information about it?

whenever i hear subjects like this i always think of this one star trek episode. the star trek crew beamed down to planet where the population wasnt very technology advanced(equivalent to our bible years). the people on the planet saw the crew beam down and approached the crew. captain picard introduced himself. the people had mistaken advanced technology for supreme powers and thought capt. picard was a god and referred to him as "the picard' and started to form a religion around him. now is this so hard to believe that this might of happened here on our earth? just something to think about.

reply to post by aceace


Just wondering....

as the star moved into position "going back in time 17,000 years"...

would it not be logical to conclude the othe stars would have different positioning 17,000 years ago as well?

therefore, causing the whole alignment to be out of whack and in fact not fit the Mars area in question (mycedonia??)?

reply to post by middleclasssoldier


It could have, we don't know. But I will tell you after looking at Tiahuanaco and PumaPunku and the detail of the stone work that was done and cut on the stones, it can't have been done with just stone tools, levers and brute force. Also if you look at the Nasca lines, the sceptics haven't answered why would the people of that area make those lines and large drawings THAT CAN ONLY BE SEEN FROM THE AIR!!!!! It almost look like in the Nasca case that they where attempting to entice or bring back individuals that came to them from the sky. Some have said that they could have been a quest for them to follow the lines and such and such (don't believe it). It may be a different story if all of the designs where angular and the people had a grasp of geometry and trigonometry and algebra, where they could draw a schematic on paper or stone and expand the schematic to a thousand to one. But it still doesn't answer why make these things that only somebody in the sky looking down could see or enjoy.

Our history is being hidden from us because of 3 reasons. One, is that the powers that be may lose power from the religious and/or political view because people wouldn't want to stay in that fake paradigm anymore and embrace the new one. Two, the truth may be so troubling and so big, that it could cause fractures in our society to cause it to collapse. And three do you remember the movie SIGNS, where aliens slowly attack earth and in the beginning the newscaster makes the comment after seeing the alien crafts says "everything we have written in the science books will have to be changes". That's the problem with the academics around the world, they are afraid of having to be wrong. And having to be questioned as to why did they not look at this possibility and the people they ridiculed where right. Can you imagine a history major or an anthropologists who has been writing books and articles for 30 years suddenly finding out that what you have been thinking for that long is not only wrong, but you went down the wrong avenue of logic. That alone is enough for the academics to ridicule everything that doesn't fit their paradigm.

Was it Megalomania that made leaders of the respected people all around the planet make massive stone structures to them, I don't think so. Skeptics answer if there was advanced civilization that landed on this planet, why didn't they make sky scrapers of metal and such. I think that if they had the ability to manipulate the massive stones then it would be better to use that as a building material. And believe it or not as with all paradigm's, it depends on the civilizations idea what's big or a skyscraper or whatever. Today us humans think all civilizations should be like us. But what if all civilizations was practical and used stone (remember we used bricks and granite to build structures also), it's sturdy rugged durable and can survive for a long time. Not like many structures we have today.

reply to post by middleclasssoldier


It could have, we don't know. But I will tell you after looking at Tiahuanaco and PumaPunku and the detail of the stone work that was done and cut on the stones, it can't have been done with just stone tools, levers and brute force. Also if you look at the Nasca lines, the sceptics haven't answered why would the people of that area make those lines and large drawings THAT CAN ONLY BE SEEN FROM THE AIR!!!!! It almost look like in the Nasca case that they where attempting to entice or bring back individuals that came to them from the sky. Some have said that they could have been a quest for them to follow the lines and such and such (don't believe it). It may be a different story if all of the designs where angular and the people had a grasp of geometry and trigonometry and algebra, where they could draw a schematic on paper or stone and expand the schematic to a thousand to one. But it still doesn't answer why make these things that only somebody in the sky looking down could see or enjoy.

Our history is being hidden from us because of 3 reasons. One, is that the powers that be may lose power from the religious and/or political view because people wouldn't want to stay in that fake paradigm anymore and embrace the new one. Two, the truth may be so troubling and so big, that it could cause fractures in our society to cause it to collapse. And three do you remember the movie SIGNS, where aliens slowly attack earth and in the beginning the newscaster makes the comment after seeing the alien crafts says "everything we have written in the science books will have to be changes". That's the problem with the academics around the world, they are afraid of having to be wrong. And having to be questioned as to why did they not look at this possibility and the people they ridiculed where right. Can you imagine a history major or an anthropologists who has been writing books and articles for 30 years suddenly finding out that what you have been thinking for that long is not only wrong, but you went down the wrong avenue of logic. That alone is enough for the academics to ridicule everything that doesn't fit their paradigm.

Was it Megalomania that made leaders of the respected people all around the planet make massive stone structures to them, I don't think so. Skeptics answer if there was advanced civilization that landed on this planet, why didn't they make sky scrapers of metal and such. I think that if they had the ability to manipulate the massive stones then it would be better to use that as a building material. And believe it or not as with all paradigm's, it depends on the civilizations idea what's big or a skyscraper or whatever. Today us humans think all civilizations should be like us. But what if all civilizations was practical and used stone (remember we used bricks and granite to build structures also), it's sturdy rugged durable and can survive for a long time. Not like many structures we have today.

Originally posted by Arbitrageur

Originally posted by dragonridr
reply to post by ChemBreather

 

Moving heavy stone obelisk is not impossible. It took levers, ropes and rollers, and lots of muscle; a document from the reign of Ramses IV, circa 1150 BCE, lists 8,362 men as being involved in the haul of one stone, not counting the 900 who died in some way during the process.

Thanks Dragonridr, I thought we might figure out how they did it but I didn't know about that document, do you have a link to it or more information about it?

Here this page does a good job at explaining about the creation and transportation of obelisks ill try to find a picture of the papyrus i mentioned but its not a how to manual its a report to the Pharaoh on expenditures. Ramses IV put a large percentage of his people to work building because the Egyptian economy was collapsing and they were work projects. Even then many of his workers went unpaid the funds dried up.

Heres that Link it shows some temple drawings etc:

nefertiti.iwebland.com...

Ps nothing pisses me off more than people trying to take away accomplishments from the ancients. Humans in the past were just as smart as we are today and could come up with ingenious ways to do something if they had kept better records are technology would be hundreds of years ahead of current. Unfortunately we had to rediscover alot they all ready knew.Be proud of what we've accomplished humans are truly amazing when we put are mind to the test.

[edit on 8/8/09 by dragonridr]

As far as Cydonia being a starmap, and aligning with Pleades, I was just wondering about the perspective.. I know that the southern hemisphere of earth sees differant constallations than the northern,

As well as the same but from a differant viewpoint..

So what about them being seen from a totally differant planet than Earth.. Would that not change the way they were percived, if even by a little bit??

How much different do the constallations appear from a Mars perspective than Earths???

Just kinda curious, as most times I tend to expect everything to look the same everywhere, as if my current visual perspective is the end all be all..
LOL..

reply to post by SideWynder


To answer your question there would be a difference in star constellations on mars though the difference would be minor. Heres my problem with this theory why does everyone feel aliens building anything on another planet are going to map the stars thats kinda stupid. Lets say earth goes into the cosmos to colonize a planet we get there. Do you honestly think there going to say why don't we build this complex to show earths location? Id say they would build it according to there needs and what would be the most practical.Either these aliens were just plain stupid and knew nothing about engineering which would be hard to believe since supposedly they just came from the pleades. Or just maybe this is a load of bovine excrement.

reply to post by autowrench


The Pleiades System is a group of young stars that have not had enough time to form planetary systems.

My personal belief is that we were brought here from our own race..The strange thing is why? Maybe an experiment or maybe a group took off and found this planet habitiable. One thing is for sure the earth would work in just about perfect harmony if human being weren't over populating the place or weren't here at all..

When I was kid I remember thinking earth was just a cell in a giant beings body.. and when the earth finally either falls apart to do human over population or nucluer war, would be when this cell would be considered cancerous.. As we know today just about everyone has some cancerous cells in their bodies...however too many of these will kill you.. Anyways just a weird kid thought..

reply to post by otheym


Lets not bring facts into this fantasy come on man.

The Pleiades is a loose cluster of approximately 100 stars with an average age estimated at 78 million years. These are very young stars, much younger than our own Sun, estimated at 5 billion years old, much younger even that our own planet, Earth.

These are very hot, bright stars of spectral type B, much hotter and about 10 times more massive than our Sun, spectral type G. They have not yet moved away from the interstellar gas cloud, or nebula, from which they formed.

Whats that mean no way life has formed yet.

Originally posted by aceace
A few of you are saying that Pleiades is the source of the Alien culture that came to earth 17,000 years ago. That's not what Mr Herschel is saying. The star that eventually ends up in the face has nothing to do with the Pleiades. The Pleiades is only a reference point for locating that star. I explained earlier that if a star was 5000 light years away, it would move very little in a picture from earth. If it was 15.74 light years it will move very far when mapped over 17,000 years.

I was thinking the same. Go HERE to look into it.
Better is: Read the whole site.