Opponents of ObamaCare Shut Out in Tampa Townhall

Originally posted by Wimbly
reply to post by HunkaHunka

 

I don't agree, but even if you're right isn't that exactly what ACORN does?

[edit on 7-8-2009 by Wimbly]

So let me get this straight. You are equating anger which comes from people who have ALREADY lost their homes with the anger of people who haven't lost anything regarding healthcare but are AFRAID of what is to come?

Come one... that's like equating someone who kills out of self defense with someone who kills out of malice...

it's like comparing a responsible gun owner to someone who is stock piling weapons...

Apples and Oranges... or should I say Acorns and Peanuts.

Originally posted by HunkaHunka
reply to post by yellowcard

 

TO be honest, the town halls had memos sent out asking conservatives to "PACK THE HALLS" and telling them where to stand and what questions to ask and...

...TAKE ME TO YOUR LEADER...


Sorry... and anyway, now that the opposing side realizes what is going on and is taking action people are crying foul?

They should have been crying foul to begin with.

Care to share those memo's with us? Or are you just making Sh*t up?

I went to a town hall meeting here and it was very "Lively". I received NO memo. I wasn't told where to stand, what to say, etc... I am an American and a grown man. I can make my own decisions. I gather that most of the other people who attended are just like me...

SOMEONE WHO IS TIRED OF NOT BEING LISTENED TOO! I WILL ATTEND THESE MEETINGS OF MY OWN VOLITION AND SPEAK MY MIND.

Whether you choose to believe what is happening in this country or deny it, that is your choice. But do not belittle others for standing up AND HAVING THEIR VOICE HEARD.

Originally posted by ag2000

Originally posted by HunkaHunka
reply to post by yellowcard

 

TO be honest, the town halls had memos sent out asking conservatives to "PACK THE HALLS" and telling them where to stand and what questions to ask and...

...TAKE ME TO YOUR LEADER...


Sorry... and anyway, now that the opposing side realizes what is going on and is taking action people are crying foul?

They should have been crying foul to begin with.

Care to share those memo's with us? Or are you just making Sh*t up?

Sure thing... I never just make stuff up.

Here is an article linking to them

The memo, authored by Robert MacGuffie, who runs the website rightprinciples.com, suggests that tea partiers should "pack the hall... spread out" to make their numbers seem more significant, and to "rock-the-boat early in the Rep's presentation...to yell out and challenge the Rep's statements early.... to rattle him, get him off his prepared script and agenda...stand up and shout and sit right back down."

MacGuffie is a volunteer for FreedomWorks, the industry funded group that helps organize and support the tea party protests. But he denies that his small group has any direct affiliation with FreedomWorks. "We are recommending with that memo that other grassroots groups that share our view should go to the townhalls of their members and use the strategy that we did," MacGuffie told me, confirming the memo's authenticity. "We are trying to get into that town halls to make them understand that they do not have the unanimous support from people in their communities."

I went to a town hall meeting here and it was very "Lively". I received NO memo. I wasn't told where to stand, what to say, etc... I am an American and a grown man. I can make my own decisions. I gather that most of the other people who attended are just like me...

That's great.... I'm not talking about you then. I'm talking about these folks who DO NOT have any other aim than to "pack the hall... spread out" to make their numbers seem more significant, and to "rock-the-boat early in the Rep's presentation...to yell out and challenge the Rep's statements early.... to rattle him, get him off his prepared script and agenda...stand up and shout and sit right back down."

SOMEONE WHO IS TIRED OF NOT BEING LISTENED TOO! I WILL ATTEND THESE MEETINGS OF MY OWN VOLITION AND SPEAK MY MIND.

You having more than one meeting in your town?

Sure, but when you go to speak your mind... it might help your cause if you sound INTELLIGENT and not EMOTIONAL.

Whether you choose to believe what is happening in this country or deny it, that is your choice. But do not belittle others for standing up AND HAVING THEIR VOICE HEARD.

I'm not... I believe we should all have our voices heard. However, when people are sending out memos organizing and literally SENDING PEOPLE ON BUSSES that's a lot more than you having your voice heard. That's you being played for a fool.

The bus, covered with a giant red hand print and a message that reads: "Hands Off My Health Care," is slated to make 26 stops in Virginia.

[edit on 7-8-2009 by HunkaHunka]

reply to post by HunkaHunka


They aren't memos. They are emails from a guy with a facebook page. Why don't you tell everyone where you got this "memo"...

Originally posted by Wimbly
reply to post by HunkaHunka

 

They aren't memos. They are emails from a guy with a facebook page. Why don't you tell everyone where you got this "memo"...

Wow... So this below.. the thing which says MEMO... isn't a memo? I mean it says RIGHT THERE ... POLITICAL ACTION MEMO... I didn't make that up.

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/files/b406d8fccdeb7df1.png[/atsimg]

They are even going on BUSSES! Here is an article from a Richmond Newspaper



[edit on 7-8-2009 by HunkaHunka]

When Obama was on the stump during the campaign he pledged to make the process of healthcare reform transparent and public. He even stated that the two sided debates and discussions would be aired on CSPAN. None of that ever happened.

Instead we had 1,000 page master plan dropped on the nation's lap with nothing but a curt "Here it is, let's vote on it before we go to the beach".

I can guarantee that this plan was not written by Pelosi or Reid or any congressional representative for that matter. This bill was well crafted long before Obama's inauguration. This bill was written by lobbyist lawyers and Obama's handlers. He is merely the mouthpiece for this legislation. Hence the hasty rush to push it through.

The people are awake now and it is going to take an elephant sized tube of K-Y to get this thing through the process now.

Those who are opposed to this nonsense should waste no time during the Summer Recess to get the word out.

I think most people agree that our system needs an overall, so why not work through the process in a well controlled and public manner. Step by step. Objective by objective. We will reach a common goal. You cannot attain your goals without any objectives. That is a fundamental aspect of the process. He has a full term as President. Why the rush??

A smart man seeking reelection in 2012 would want the best plan possible for a nation that stands to reelect him. He screws this up now his career is over.

Proper
Planning
Prevents
Piss
Poor
Performance

reply to post by HunkaHunka


"All I am hearing is "Why should we trust you to run healthcare when you can't get the cash for clunkers right?" This is a misdirection which is not an actual question about the healthcare bill, it's simply an attempt to throw political feces at people."

Why should my tax money be buying new cars for people who obviously can afford to buy new cars on their own anyway. More than half of the cars seen turned in are far from clunkers.

Meanwhile I have lost my job and my home do to this bad economy, Nobody is helping me or the other millions of us. To hell with you or the government. I bust my ass with a broken back every day just to survive while minorities and illegals get everything handed to them on a silver platter.

If you think millions of us wont die prematurely under the governments care then you are out of your mind.

This means WAR and you all will loose. We have the guns, Brains and the skill to wipe all of you out at the drop of a hat.

Originally posted by jibeho


I can guarantee that this plan was not written by Pelosi or Reid or any congressional representative for that matter. This bill was well crafted long before Obama's inauguration. This bill was written by lobbyist lawyers and Obama's handlers. He is merely the mouthpiece for this legislation. Hence the hasty rush to push it through.

Really? Proof? I mean you say guarantee.. so I'm guessing you are backing that up with something else besides general animosity?

Originally posted by Sky watcher
reply to post by HunkaHunka

 

This means WAR and you all will loose. We have the guns, Brains and the skill to wipe all of you out at the drop of a hat.

Wow... really? You want to "wipe all of [us] out at the drop of a hat" with your "guns"?

You actually want a civil war don't you?

It seems that way...


So I rest my case. This doesn't seem to be fueled by civility as much as animosity.

[edit on 7-8-2009 by HunkaHunka]

reply to post by HunkaHunka


First off once again you speak in absolute blanket assumptions.

Have you been to every town hall meeting coast to coast? How can you possibly make a statement like "They are saying word for word, verbatim, what's in the memos and nothing else?"

It sounds to me like you are saying word for word how someone has explained to you to 'dismiss' all these opponents to the Bill.

You certainly couldn't be doing anything other than that since we both know you haven't been to every meeting.

Further as a person who has worked in Sales off and on most of my life when people have objections they are not always civil they are not always cordial.

In sales you have two choices, try to convince them of the value of your product despite their hostility by remaining calm and rational and on point or on topic and make some money and win a new customer in the process...

Or to react equally as rudely and be dismissive and contemptuous simply because the people aren't inclined to 'buy' what you are selling them and not make money and not win a new customer.

These Congress People are pitiful excuses for Politicians which a real politician adept at their craft ALWAYS looks to FORGE a CONSENSUS through DIALOUGE and to DIFUSE emotionally charged situations through SKILL and PATIENCE just like in SALES.

In other words they are reacting pretty much like you are reacting...You don't like it, get out...Excuse me the person objects and raises their voice knowing that they are being ignored or dismissed out of hand...and these people are doing exactly what the Politicians should be doing, trying to HASH it OUT with RELUCTANT buyers.

Yet so far most of the politicians approach has simply been autocratic, I prefer to preach to the choir not to the heathens.

Anyone with half a brain could see the whole thing is politically charged theatre....THERE IS NO BILL...

You have a President with NO EXPERTISE and NO EXPERIENCE and NO BIRTH CERTIFICATE simply saying I will pick and choose between THREE COMPETING BILLS the Ellements of Each 'I' Like Best.

Hey there is some Democracy at work for you, but sadly what he is also saying that has people very alarmed and rightfully so is once I decide "I plan to ram it down your throats just as fast as I can without giving you or anyone a chance to debate it, and oh if you try, I am going to villianize you like no tomorrow".

The American People have had enough of their Knee Jerk Reactionary Congress waiting to the 11th hour claiming the "House is on Fire" we must do something now, and then doing anything, just for the sake of doing anything.

THIS IS MY HEALTH TOO we are talking about when it CAN and WILL IMPACT THE QUALITY OF HEALTH CARE THAT IS AVAILABLE TO ME...and any look at any country that practices SOCIALIZED MEDICINE will show you then when you look at a place like MIAMI where I live and some of the World's very best Doctors flock here to PRACTICE because they get PAID for it, what they WANT for it, that HALF THEIR PATIENTS are people from Countries with SOCIALIZED MEDICINE who really want treatment and skill that their SOCIALIZED MEDICINE does not PROVIDE.

As usual socialists in their never ending desire to pretend to be heros forget THE REAL PROBLEM is that people CAN'T AFFORD HEALTH CARE OR INSURANCE...NOT BECAUSE IT COSTS TO MUCH...BECAUSE THEY MAKE TO LITTLE.

So rather than the Government addressing the real problem, not enough Jobs and not enough living wage Jobs it just wants to take money from those who Could and Can afford Health Care to pay for another dysfunctional system that falls into disrepair because the INCENTIVE for excellence has been taken out of it along with the standard compensation that's now been IMPOSED on it.

Great I get to spend more money than I would just taking care of myself, and I get to get less quality care too!

Thanks but no thanks.

There is No Bill, this is about the Administration testing the waters to see if it can RAM THROUGH A BILL, and how and if it can overcome the OPPOSITION to RAMMING THROUGH yet another piece of COSTLY and DEFECIENT LEGISLATION that will just CAUSE MORE PROBLEMS.

We already have Medicaide and Medicare for the poor along with Public Health Trusts locally. Let them fix those first, they are all known for their fraud, corruption and routine abuse and misuse and your idea is just making a bigger Piggy Bank?

The solution isn't giving everyone Communist Style Substandard Health Care and the Government MORE power.

The solution is providing real jobs, real wages, so people can really afford to take care of themselves and rewarding the I threw out my knee in a race to a box of twinkies crowd is only going to help Hostess Foods not the rest of us.

reply to post by HunkaHunka


Whats is your problem with it anyway? Isn't that how people organize? Isn't that how every single protest against Bush went the last 8 years>? Why is it that people like you think that democrats/liberals live by some separate set of standards?

This "memo" came from some guy with a facebook page who was able to get people organized. Which is exactly what Obama does with groups like ACORN.

Also, do you think through this "change" rhetoric you're obviously so smitten by? Why do you folks use that word like mindless automatons? What the hell does "change" mean and why are we supposed to just accept it no matter what?

[edit on 7-8-2009 by Wimbly]

If government is supposed to totally control healthcare and our lives, our founding fathers with all their wisdom would have put this provision into the Constitution. Or this would have been mentioned in the Bill of Rights or even in one of the Amendments to the Constitution.

It would have fit nicely next to the right of free speech and religion and the right to bear arms. But for some reason I don't see the right to free nationalized healthcare. Hmm.....

But the Bill of Rights and Constitution only mentions the rights of the people to have individual freedom and the right to NOT have the government involved in our business. How problematic for all you socialists out there.

[edit on 8/7/2009 by WhatTheory]

Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler
reply to post by HunkaHunka

 

First off once again you speak in absolute blanket assumptions.

Have you been to every town hall meeting coast to coast? How can you possibly make a statement like "They are saying word for word, verbatim, what's in the memos and nothing else?"

I'm sorry, this is just what I'm seeing on Fox news. When I watch that, the things they are saying are verbatim from the questions in these memos. And how they are doing it is inline with them.

It sounds to me like you are saying word for word how someone has explained to you to 'dismiss' all these opponents to the Bill.

Nope.. I haven't heard anyone else ask the opponents for their suggestions on the following things:

1. How to stop HMOs etc from denying claims
2. How to stop allowing HMOs to deny you because of prior conditions
3. How to stop HMOs from spending HUGE amounts of money in legal fees just to deny claims.
4. How to stop the skyrocketing cost of healtcare.

As a business owner, I now pay 130% more for my employees healthcare than I did 3 years ago.

Somethings got to give.

I personally have been asking for these solutions from the opponents, but no one has offered up any answers.

All I am seeing are people saying they don't want gov healthcare which is fine... but understand there is a problem, and we need a solution.

reply to post by Wimbly


My problem with it is that we have a huge problem.

Healthcare the way it stands is in serious need of revamping.

And ALL I HEAR are people throwing stones at the current proposed bill... I don't hear anyone offering other solutions...

That's my issue.

reply to post by HunkaHunka


Just come out and say it. Protests are only legitimate if they follow a left wing agenda. Its a message thats been popular in the MSM for a while now, so I don't blame you for being trained like you are.

And ALL I HEAR are people throwing stones at the current proposed bill... I don't hear anyone offering other solutions...

You mean like this?







[edit on 7-8-2009 by Wimbly]

Originally posted by Wimbly
reply to post by HunkaHunka

 

Just come out and say it. Protests are only legitimate if they follow a left wing agenda. Its a message thats been popular in the MSM for a while now, so I don't blame you for being trained like you are.

Not at all... when there is a proposed solution to a problem then that's great.

Protesting just to "RATTLE THEM" and "GET THEM OFF THEIR SCRIPT" isn't going to solve anything.

That's my issue.

Originally posted by HunkaHunka

Originally posted by jibeho


I can guarantee that this plan was not written by Pelosi or Reid or any congressional representative for that matter. This bill was well crafted long before Obama's inauguration. This bill was written by lobbyist lawyers and Obama's handlers. He is merely the mouthpiece for this legislation. Hence the hasty rush to push it through.

Really? Proof? I mean you say guarantee.. so I'm guessing you are backing that up with something else besides general animosity?

I say that because there was no transparency or public process. Pelosi isn't smart enough and neither is Reid. This bill is so full of legal complications and dead ends that it had to have been written by a sizeable team of skillful lawyers. I suspect that Ezekiel Emanuel and his staff of minions are the primary architects of this legislation. He was hired to oversee his own creation.

Originally posted by Wimbly
reply to post by HunkaHunka

 

Just come out and say it. Protests are only legitimate if they follow a left wing agenda. Its a message thats been popular in the MSM for a while now, so I don't blame you for being trained like you are.

they aren't just trained by MSM. school teachers from first grade through university are devout union members who present the liberal viewpoint as Truth.

I haven't been to a townhall meeting but can relate to the frustration of attendees. I have written to my elected officials many, many times and they still voted to pass unread bills and support cap and trade. (I live in a blue state). I don't support a massive overhaul of healthcare before some simple cleanup measures are instituted, particularly since we don't even know the details.

many of us who have attended tea parties or town hall meetings don't belong to any group who sends out memos. we aren't union members. who's going to send the memo? liberals might be surprised to know that fox news doesn't send out memos to people to attend meetings. it's just another way to dismiss questions.

why does the obama white house so intensely oppose questions--unless they have preselected them?

Originally posted by HunkaHunka
reply to post by Wimbly

 

My problem with it is that we have a huge problem.

Healthcare the way it stands is in serious need of revamping.

And ALL I HEAR are people throwing stones at the current proposed bill... I don't hear anyone offering other solutions...

That's my issue.

That's because you're not listening or you don't want to hear what's being offered.

Four Republican Congressmen have offered up an alternative to nationalized health care by way of the Patients' Choice Act.

“The Patients’ Choice Act of 2009,” transforms health care in America by strengthening the relationship between the patient and the doctor; using choice and competition rather than rationing and restrictions to contain costs; and ensuring universal, affordable health care for all Americans.

www.house.gov...

It doesn't have the price tag of the stupid Obama health care bill, it doesn't have NEARLY the government control that the Obama bill does AND it won't wreck our economy.

But I guess since it was introduced by Republicans, it's obviously a bad idea, right?

Originally posted by HunkaHunka
reply to post by Wimbly

 

My problem with it is that we have a huge problem.

Healthcare the way it stands is in serious need of revamping.

And ALL I HEAR are people throwing stones at the current proposed bill... I don't hear anyone offering other solutions...

That's my issue.

Where are your solutions? As a business owner I'm sure you have some ideas. Perhaps you can share those instead of trying to pick apart everyone's posts looking for a technicality. If you you read my earlier post, you would find that I am all for healthcare reform. I just want it to be a well thought out, transparent and thorough process. A socialized system that barely works for other countries may not be the best solution for the U.S.

Obama's immediate agenda has interfered with any glimmer of a successful alternative option. He has a this is what you have to work with, make the best of it mentality.