Gov't insurance would allow coverage for abortion

Originally posted by SpacePunk
reply to post by Roadblockx

 

There are a lot of things that people don't believe they should be paying for. Where does it end? You have to ask yourself one question.... Do you mind your own business or go through life like Mrs. Kravitz? Do you really want to be a busy body? I'm sure there are a lot of people that can busy body right back at you.

Can busy body right back at you?? Wow...

There are a lot of things that shouldn't be paid for but the point that is trying to be made is that with gov health care, everything would be covered. My point is that it would be better to refine the private health care policies then give everyone coverage. If you're overweight, your premiums should be higher, if you're a smoker you should pay more, if you have a history of abusing drugs you should pay more. In a system that rewards good choices, it encourages good behavior. I earned my rewards and earned the consequences of bad choices. Why should you or anyone else have to pay for my bad choices?

Originally posted by Roadblockx
I don't believe we as tax payers should pay for these "mistakes". What ever happened to personal responsibility? Have the baby if it was a mistake and put it up for adoption. There are more then enough people that want to adopt.

Could you please cite a source for this fact?

Last I checked, there are thousands of children stuck in the custody of the state. Where are all of these people wanting to adopt for these children?

Which do you THINK (not source needed for your opinion) costs more to the state- a $500 abortion or 18 years of raising (often) troubled, parent-less children?

reply to post by ninecrimes


Nine, I believe you are going offtopic...seriously.

The Issue is if Obamacare will include abortion coverage or not.

It is "NOT" if aboration should occur or be legal, that is another topic for another post, imo.

I have a good question for you people.

If Obamacare replaces all private doctors, and then Obama=care refuses a specific treatment or procedure, what choice would you then have????

reply to post by ninecrimes



Aborting children is a form of enlightenment?... Thalk about "bunch of carzies trying to impose their opinion on eveyrone else"...

Enlightenment comes form the knowledge that every innocent lifeform is precious, nomatter how that lifeform came to be. That's enlightenment... Aborting children, and thinking "it's alright, that fetus is not a lifeform and will never be one, is part of that woman" is not, and will never be enlightenmet.

Even if a woman has been raped, killing that fetus, if she gets pregnant, is not going to "erase the rape". That woman will be scarred for life, only through a strong will, and some help will she be able to get back a semblance of a life.

It is very unfortunate to live in a world where some animals rape women, and children, but it is an unfortunate truth. It is also very unfortunate that thanks to Liberal ideas many rapists are given many chances to continue living, and can even get out of prison only to rape again.

Am I going to tell a woman what to do? no, but is is still my opinion that is wrong to murder a fetus which will become a person.

I can have my own opinion still can't I? or are certain people going to tell me what to think, and not to think?....

[edit on 7-8-2009 by ElectricUniverse]

Originally posted by ninecrimes

Originally posted by Roadblockx
I don't believe we as tax payers should pay for these "mistakes". What ever happened to personal responsibility? Have the baby if it was a mistake and put it up for adoption. There are more then enough people that want to adopt.

Could you please cite a source for this fact?

Last I checked, there are thousands of children stuck in the custody of the state. Where are all of these people wanting to adopt for these children?

Which do you THINK (not source needed for your opinion) costs more to the state- a $500 abortion or 18 years of raising (often) troubled, parent-less children?

You are mixing the statistics. You can't look at how many kids are in foster care and say, see, this is why we need to crush skulls and limit the costs. I know you are aware of what constitutes foster care and why those kids are there so I'm not going to explain that as I know you are smart.

Here is the most recent info I can find. I will continue to search as you pose a fair question.


How many children entered foster care during FY 2006? 303,000
How many children exited foster care during FY 2006? 289,000

What were the ages of the children who exited care during FY 2006?

Mean Years
9.8

Median Years
9.5

Adoptions


Here is an additional site that offer up more info:

Adoption Reports and Statistics

Now I am not saying that there aren't children left in custody of the state (foster care) but as the numbers show, those that are in foster care don't stay 18 years.

Originally posted by mrmonsoon
reply to post by ninecrimes

 

Nine, I believe you are going offtopic...seriously.

The Issue is if Obamacare will include abortion coverage or not.

It is "NOT" if aboration should occur or be legal, that is another topic for another post, imo.

I have a good question for you people.

If Obamacare replaces all private doctors, and then Obama=care refuses a specific treatment or procedure, what choice would you then have????

Thanks MrMonsoon. I get distracted easy and continue down that road. I appreciate your question and hope those that are following this thread will respond to your question.

If that procedure is not covered, I wonder how many YouTube videos will pop-up showing how to do it yourself....

Originally posted by ElectricUniverse
reply to post by ninecrimes

 

Aborting children is a form of enlightenment?... Thalk about "bunch of carzies trying to impose their opinion on eveyrone else"...

Enlightenment comes form the knowledge that every innocent lifeform is precious, nomatter how that lifeform came to be. That's enlightenment... Aborting children, and thinking "it's alright, that fetus is not a lifeform and will never be one, is part of that woman" is not, and will never be enlightenmet.

[edit on 7-8-2009 by ElectricUniverse]

Ummm excuse me, but I never said abortion=enlightenment. Maybe that's why you didn't quote me saying it, because I never did say it?

As for your opinion, I would die to protect your right to have that opinion and discuss it openly.

Please do not try to derail me with your petty insults. kthx

EDIT- I'm still waiting for that quotation... right now, you're looking like nothing but a detractive troll.

[edit on 7-8-2009 by ninecrimes]

Originally posted by ModernAcademia

Originally posted by Jezus

That's your opinion... and that's fine, we don't force people to have abortions...

I disagree with you that this is my opinion
this is not opinion

that other baby is factually another body
I do not consider it opinion and I don't see how anyone could

That is the difference between pro-choice people and pro-life people...

I think you should be able to have an opinion and no one should be able to force you to have an abortion...but you want to make your opinion a law and force your beliefs on other people.

No thank you, this is The United States of America, and abortion will NEVER be illegal.

I understand that you don't like abortion...and that's great for you...but a lot of people in a lot of situations see abortion as the best decision.

Anyone that is trying to force every single pregnancy to birth should start adopting some kids...

Kids with all kinds of birth defects
Kids from rape
Kids from incest
Kids from rape and incest
Kids born addicted to crack
Kids who have no provider
Kids who have no one to love them

It's REALLY EASY to SAY your against abortion but how many of you people are adopting unwanted and disenfranchised children?

reply to post by Jezus


Ok.... Really though, this thread isn't about abortion as being legal or otherwise. Please post on topic or start your own thread elsewhere.

Originally posted by Roadblockx
reply to post by Jezus

 

Ok.... Really though, this thread isn't about abortion as being legal or otherwise. Please post on topic or start your own thread elsewhere.

I think [almost] everyone agrees that government funding for abortions is just plain craziness. Which leaves us with the other side of the argument, which is just so much more fun to discuss

To clarify- let me ask this... is there anyone reading this thread who agrees with free abortions?

(I am NOT asking if you agree with abortions in general)

reply to post by ninecrimes


Here is the problem.

If we are stuck with Obamacare, there will be practiacly no private doctors.

If Obamacare does not cover it, you are SOL.

If the obamacare decides to not provide abortions, it is kinda like a backdoor canceling of row V wad.

Abortions are legal services, are they not? Why shouldn't a health plan cover them? Health plans will cover birth control services and probably have some coverage for drugs to treat male sexual dysfunction. If you don't "believe" in these things--don't use them.

reply to post by zoolady


Here is the problem zoo, as I see it.

Some people think that just because they are against something, that no one else should be allowed to do it.

In other words, they try to enforce their will/religious ways on others.....

Starting to sound less and less like Christian and more and more like "another religion"

I say that with utter contempt and disgust.

Clearly, no one should be forced into an abortion!!!!

That said, no one should be denied an abortion due to someone else's beliefs, religious or otherwise


[edit on 8/7/2009 by mrmonsoon]

Originally posted by ninecrimes
To clarify- let me ask this... is there anyone reading this thread who agrees with free abortions?

I assume you mean covered by the public health insurance? (Which isn't free)

And of course it should be covered...

It would simply be illogical and more costly not to cover it.

i personally think abortion is wrong. i dont think most women go into happy about it. i also do believe u have the right to a choice and what u wanna do. abortion is a deep issue for me cuzz my mom tried to home abort me any way she could. when that failed i was put into group homes. ya i think its cruel and people who dont want kids should use protection are let some one who wants them to adopt. but we cant force some one to believe the way we believe. do i think the government should pay for abortions. i do. i know alot of women cant afford it and they are hell bent on aborting their child. i rather have a doctor do it. then one day take out my trash and see a poor child dead in my garbage. sorry if it seems graphic but its just my 2 cents


salaam

reply to post by Jezus


"On a pure dollars and cents issue, you are correct."

Abortion is a one time small fee.

A child needs food/clothes.housing/education.....and someone's got to pay for it...
Welfare/foodstamps.........we all pay for these unwanted children.

Originally posted by ninecrimes

Originally posted by Roadblockx
reply to post by Jezus

 

Ok.... Really though, this thread isn't about abortion as being legal or otherwise. Please post on topic or start your own thread elsewhere.

I think [almost] everyone agrees that government funding for abortions is just plain craziness. Which leaves us with the other side of the argument, which is just so much more fun to discuss

To clarify- let me ask this... is there anyone reading this thread who agrees with free abortions?

(I am NOT asking if you agree with abortions in general)

ninecrimes, great question (and close enough to being on topic?!?) Perfect!

Just giving you a hard-time. Ok, I agree that the gov paying for abortions is crazy. I'm not sure how the abortion would be free unless the doctors and nurses donate their services and the medical supplies are donated.

So that it doesn't appear that I am dodging the question, I believe that before an abortion is performed, the father should be notified and the mother views footage from anotehr abortion procedure.

reply to post by jmacbeth


Thanks for the contribution and congrats on surviving what had to be a tough childhood. You could have become a drain on society but instead you made something out of yourself which is very commendable.

If you don't want to answer I understand but did you have a hard time with what your mom did?

reply to post by zoolady


Yeah, I hope you read through previous posts as we have covered this over and over and over..... Please see if you can enhance or add to the existing conversation. Thank you.

Personally, I am Pro-Choice, and I am also Pro-Responsibility....

In that I think if you know you can only support X amount of children, emotionally, and financially, stop having kids at X. That, in my mind, doesn't mean go out and deliberately get on welfare to have more kids! Which means birth control, education and so on; including abortion.

I think that allowing the new health care program to allow people who -want- the abortions, but could not afford them to get them, is a good thing.

From the economic stand point, an abortion is cheaper than forcing the tax payers to pay for the; pre-birth medical expenses, OBGYN doctor visits and so on, then the birth of the child, not to mention the years of follow on care for the child. If you want you can also add in psyche care costs as well, for the parents and child.

Yes I know this flies in the face of some religions; however I think some of the religions bear a huge portion of fault for the over population and the economic crisis; simply from the aspect that they don't teach responsibility! (Economic or parental!)

So the religions don't like man-made birth control, there is a 'rhythm method' to keep from having kids, but is that taught? No.

No where have I seen it taught:

"Go forth and multiply responsibly, having only so many children as that you can care for them properly."

I also do not see the protesters at birth control / abortion clinics signing up to raise, much less pay for the care of these children. It's ok for them to jump up on the their moral high horse, but they do not want to pay out of their time and money to offer an alternative to those going for birth control or abortions.

But I digress, I think that there should be money in the new health care reforms for abortion. I also think there should be money for birth control and education in that same package. The moral coin on which the patient using the abortion monies falling on the persons needing/wanting it.

I think also, that if folks want to have kids, the money / care should be there for that too.

And that there is not a forced choice made for them, one way or another.

M.