Please allow 911 truth .....PLEASE!!!!!

Originally posted by Mark_Amy
Wow! Truthers attacking other truthers. No wonder the debunkers have such a field day with this forum!

yep...Bonez had good points on this issue. I just wish he could see where the ridiculous stops and reality starts.

I wish that for many on this forum.

Originally posted by videoworldwide


O.k., a quick Google search tells me your name is Matt Holt.

Bad form.. But whatever..can you tell us who I am? I will give you a hint.


The credo formed in 1998:

It is the mission of the Knights Of Fire to bring Light to the Darkness of the Internet... to dent the helmets of whichever churls should block the Path... to give Aid and Enlightenment to those in need... and most importantly, to Laugh. Laughing with the ones who "get it" and at the ones who don't. Laugh at the antics of clowns and at the ridiculous starchiness of the terminally stodgy. Laugh at the bigot and the zealot, the puffed-up and the burned-out. What the modern breed of villain craves most of all is to be given credence. By exposing the villain as worthy only of ridicule and derision the day is won.

Ps. It ain't Ghandi

Originally posted by Taxi-Driver

Originally posted by videoworldwide


O.k., a quick Google search tells me your name is Matt Holt.

Bad form.. But whatever..can you tell us who I am? I will give you a hint.


The credo formed in 1998:

It is the mission of the Knights Of Fire to bring Light to the Darkness of the Internet... to dent the helmets of whichever churls should block the Path... to give Aid and Enlightenment to those in need... and most importantly, to Laugh. Laughing with the ones who "get it" and at the ones who don't. Laugh at the antics of clowns and at the ridiculous starchiness of the terminally stodgy. Laugh at the bigot and the zealot, the puffed-up and the burned-out. What the modern breed of villain craves most of all is to be given credence. By exposing the villain as worthy only of ridicule and derision the day is won.

Ps. It ain't Ghandi

Bob Dobbs ??

lol

just kidden

Originally posted by Taxi-Driver

..can you tell us who I am?

This is fun! Are your initials DB?

It wasn't exactly a "quick" google search, actually.

I searched "bonez" until I found a link -

74.125.155.132...:GmWStd2SEpcJ:www.journalof911studies.com/volume/200704/Gaffney_911Mystery%2520Plane.pdf+boneZ+911&cd=12&hl=en&ct= clnk&gl=us

13
Credit for the ID goes to Matt H. (screen name: Bonez.) The discussion is posted at
s15.invisionfree.com...


Then I did a search on both Architects and Engineers and Scholars for 911 Truth to find a Matt H. I found a Matt Hill and Matt Holt, neither of which have any relevant info. which makes me think he is hiding his background or has no professional background to contribute.

Then checked and found no Matt Holt or Hill on AE 911 Truth, so did a search for "Matt H 911 bonez"....came up with this.

www.justicefor911.org...
8288. Matt Holt, Australia

Hey....if you are a part of the coverup, Bonez.....then I have every right to investigate you and put the dirt on the internet for the truth seekers to do their own research. That's the way the game works.....player.

Originally posted by videoworldwide


Bob Dobbs ??

lol

just kidden

No that would be the good Reverend.

Slack is good though.

Originally posted by Mark_Amy


This is fun! Are your initials DB?

Nope that would be one of my friends, with similar interests. He wrote the credo.

We were once very serious about hoaxters and trolls left unchallenged in the infant stages of the intertubes.. usenet, discussion forums, ect.


You might could say I was a debunker before there was anything to debunk.

That is, if the preponderence of facts warranted such action.


Once you know how the propaganda game is played it is easy to see the flaws.

Yes , I would have to agree that the "no plane" theory is ridiculous. But to get to the bottom of the truth, all you have to do is follow the money....Oh what a tangled web we weave, when first we begin to decieve.

Originally posted by Taxi-Driver

Nope that would be one of my friends, with similar interests. He wrote the credo.

We were once very serious about hoaxters and trolls left unchallenged in the infant stages of the intertubes.. usenet, discussion forums, ect.


You might could say I was a debunker before there was anything to debunk.

That is, if the preponderence of facts warranted such action.


Once you know how the propaganda game is played it is easy to see the flaws.

Interesting, thanks for replying.

I sometimes wonder if there'd still be a 9/11 conspiracy if it had happened before the age of the Internet. I guess there would have been because conspiracy theories have been around for decades. It must have been difficult in the old days though, to arouse public awareness and to get Joe Public to catch onto the idea. I can only imagine people used to write articles and correspond through specialist magazines or journals that would print outlandish theories.

reply to post by Mark_Amy


Before the internet, we had great communications and sources. It was much harder to be a disinfo agent back then. If you were, you had to show up in person, and sell your crap and lame theories, and withstand the public scrutiny, and you had to have a face.

Now, anyone can come online, say anything they want to, and lead the mindless masses in almost any direction they choose.

We had Perceptions magazine, until it folded. Nexus had been around since like 1994. We had Media Bypass, although it was very right wing oriented. In fact many good sources, were right wing oriented. That was the downside. There were very few leftists involved at all.

We had town meetings in some places, like LA and Orange County - Citizens for the Sough Bay and the Grenada Forum. Speakers would show up and share, and take questions from the audience. And you could ask about things like airplanes without getting thrown out and tasered by your own supposed community of freedom lovers (and some fascists)

We had video distribution and sales through magazines and meetings. We had Fax Machines which had just started taking off, and people were using them for fax attacks on congress and between each other, to get the info out.

There were more bookstores as well, which carried alternative info and sometimes held speakers. In LA, there was Phoenix Bookstore and Mandala, and in Glendale or Pasadena there was atlantis books. All of these places were "tuned in", and carried all the latest conspiracy oriented material.

So, in many ways, before the internet, we got information in a much "cleaner" fashion, whereas now, we have to filter it much better, because anyone can say anything.


as a matter of fact, my title here, videoworldwide, is for a project I hope to accomplish someday. I have 150 videos that I have collected from 1989 to 2002. many of which are not and have never been on the internet. I have converted them all now, to digital dvds from vhs. Now I have to fix them for youtube and load them all up. It could take a year, i have no idea, but I have yet to do it all. I just finished the transfers. That took 1 month of nonstop work on a vhs>dvd machine. The upload and fix could take a while.

Point being.....We had access to vast libraries of material long before the internet. Much of which people have not ever seen, if they have only watched youtube and online conspiracy vids.

[edit on 4-8-2009 by videoworldwide]

reply to post by GoodOlDave

Holy Frijoles, these damned fool conspiracy websites have gotten you more confused than a blind lesbian in a fish market, with all the rubbish they've been feeding you. It's pretty obvious you wouldn't recognise the truth even if it IS given to you.

So, your first post in this thread to the OP is already about ridiculing and insulting people intelligent.

If you believe in controlled demolitions, you're certainly not going to believe it was terrorists. If you believe in lasers from outer space you're certainly not goign to believe it was controlled demolitions. If you believe the Israelis were behind it you're not going to believe the CIA was behind it. And so on and on. These websites aren't telling you the truth, they're giving you an agenda to believe in a particular thing regardless of what the truth actually is.

Your assumptions are ridiculous at best, Not all websites are wrong no matter what YOU THINK. This ridiculous claims you make by insulting people by making statement of “lasers from outer space” most people do not believe in such nonsense and you know it.
Those that like to hang around disinformation web sites have there own agenda and I see it on ATS all the time, especially in the 911 forums.

My recommendation- read the 9/11 commission report, and then compare it to the material you're picking up from these websites.

My recommendation is don’t waste your time reading the 911 commission report because it is a WHITE WASH nothing but lies and unanswered questions that the people in the United States did not get. It was a cover-up at best. One only needs to read the commission report to see it was written to get our government OFF THE HOOK. Obviously, no one was held accountable for NOT doing their jobs on the morning of 911. How convenient for them.

You all don’t have to believe me, here are some links that says it all.

9/11 Commission Counsel: Government Agreed to Lie About 9/11
New book from man tasked by government to help investigate attacks unveils how "official story is almost entirely untrue"

www.propagandamatrix.com...

9/11 Truth: The 9/11 Commission Was Set Up To Fail

www.youtube.com...

9/11 Commission Chairmen Admit Whitewashing the Cause of the Attacks

www.independent.org...

Whitewash as public service:
How The 9/11 Commission Report defrauds the nation

www.harpers.org...

9/11 Commission Chairmen Admit to Whitewash

www.antiwar.com...

9/11 Commission report is a lie

www.seattlepi.com...

My suggestion is this, do not waste all your time in the government .org websites looking for the truth people, because, you are all being deceived by the government stories it is all ONE SIDED and does not answer most of your questions. That is the truth!

You will find out to your horror that a) these conspiracy websites are all BS artists and don't have even a microbe of a clue as to what the report actually says, and b) you'll find out loads of new things the conspiracy websites never told you about becuase they can't refute it with their bait and switch games. Don't believe me, compare the two and you'll see this on your own.

Yes, there are a few that don’t tell everything, that is true, BUT, not all of them. I see more switch and bait used by debunkers on the 911 forums than anywhere else.

Remember, the truth never has to run and hide from falsehoods. It's falsehoods that have to run and hide from the truth. As long as you remember that, the truth will appear out of the cloud of falsehoods all on its own.

That is right, the truth cannot hide behind a falsehood, but some people try their best to hide it, it all depends on their agendas doesn’t it.

You know what would be interesting, to see how many of the so called truthers and debunkers are even from the USA(on these forums at least).

As far as your "no plane theory"and letting the truth ring from sea to shining sea thing. I don't know, do you really believe that there were no planes crashed on 9/11?

That all the witnesses on the ground were deceived, by what, I presume some sort of hologram moving around at 500mph with sound and reflecting light. Even as the words come out of my mouth I cant believe that some people would actually believe something like that. I guess its just a sign of the times we live in.

reply to post by Taxi-Driver

I just wish he could see where the ridiculous stops and reality starts.

I wish that for many on this forum.

Yes I do to, just so many

Originally posted by impressme
So, your first post in this thread to the OP is already about ridiculing and insulting people intelligent.

First off, the only one who's so hyper sensitive that they'd see this as a personal attack here is you. Everyone else sees it as an attack on these websites spreading outright nonsense. Second, this author is admitting the problem IS with these websites, becuase they're attempting to stomp out dissenting opinions like his "no planes" scenario in favor of ther own "controlled demolitions" scenario.

Did you even read anyone's posts, before posting this?

My recommendation is don’t waste your time reading the 911 commission report because it is a WHITE WASH nothing but lies and unanswered questions that the people in the United States did not get. It was a cover-up at best.

...and that is EXACTLY why you lost your last debate wiith me, and badly. From my point of view, a genuine researcher of the events of 9/11 would want to read EVERYTHING being published on it, for a number of reasons-

1) The more information that one has access to, the more one can weed out the good information from the bad information. It's obvious there are plenty of one-sided opinions out there and it's only from listening to both side that allows us to make an informed opinion. I keep saying this over and over, and it's still true- the truth doesn't have to run and hide from falsehoods. It's falsehoods that have to run and hide from the truth.

2) If the 9/11 commission report really IS just a pack of lies, it would be your responsibility to look at the material specifically to identify the lies and expose it for the source of lies that it is. I keep asking over and over for anyone to point out even ONE actual lie in the report. Just why do you think I do this? If it's lying to us then tell me how it's lying to us. It ain't a trick question.

3) Not to mention, it's intellectual dishonesty to accuse someone or something of being a pack of lies without even knowing what the pack of lies even are. You keep accusing your opponents of not wanting to listen to your information, so you can't have double standards like that.

This is why you lost your debate with me- not only were you unable to identify even ONE falsehood in the commission report, you kept avoiding having to read it even when it was to answer a question YOU asked. I don't know what kind of game you're playing, but I really don't care- All I'm seeing is that YOU are the one who's hiding from the information in the 9/11 commission report. The information in the report isn't hiding from you. You'll forgive me if I'm not seeing a whole lot of credibility coming from you.

Now that I think of it, this other guy's problem with censorship from his fellow conspiracy proponents is becoming crystal clear. His "no planes" scenario is every bit as much of a threat to what you "controlled demolitions" people want to believe as the 9/11 commission report is. He's just threatening you from the opposite direction.

Interesting!

Originally posted by videoworldwide

Before the internet, we had great communications and sources. It was much harder to be a disinfo agent back then. If you were, you had to show up in person, and sell your crap and lame theories, and withstand the public scrutiny, and you had to have a face.

Now, anyone can come online, say anything they want to, and lead the mindless masses in almost any direction they choose.

We had Perceptions magazine, until it folded. Nexus had been around since like 1994. We had Media Bypass, although it was very right wing oriented. In fact many good sources, were right wing oriented. That was the downside. There were very few leftists involved at all.

We had town meetings in some places, like LA and Orange County - Citizens for the Sough Bay and the Grenada Forum. Speakers would show up and share, and take questions from the audience. And you could ask about things like airplanes without getting thrown out and tasered by your own supposed community of freedom lovers (and some fascists)

We had video distribution and sales through magazines and meetings. We had Fax Machines which had just started taking off, and people were using them for fax attacks on congress and between each other, to get the info out.

There were more bookstores as well, which carried alternative info and sometimes held speakers. In LA, there was Phoenix Bookstore and Mandala, and in Glendale or Pasadena there was atlantis books. All of these places were "tuned in", and carried all the latest conspiracy oriented material.

So, in many ways, before the internet, we got information in a much "cleaner" fashion, whereas now, we have to filter it much better, because anyone can say anything.

Thanks for your reply, that's an interesting post! I can well believe when you say, "So, in many ways, before the internet, we got information in a much "cleaner" fashion, whereas now, we have to filter it much better, because anyone can say anything. "

That's the biggest problem with forums like these, they're just too anonymous. People can say whatever they want and half of them wouldn't say the things they say if they were face to face with you. Nowadays you don't have to think so much about what you write either. You can read something and post a hasty reaction in seconds. Naturally we all want our posts posted instantly, but sometimes I think it would be better if there was a delay because then people might step back and think for a minute before hitting the "reply" button. It's obvious a lot of people here do put a lot of time and effort and research into their posts, but it's the ones who don't and just abuse the system spoil it for everyone.....I guess that's just a fact of life!

Originally posted by GoodOlDave

I keep asking over and over for anyone to point out even ONE actual lie in the report.

Here's a good one direct from the 9/11 Commission Report:

The 9/11 attack was driven by Usama Bin Ladin.

..."was driven" states a matter of fact


Quick reminder direct from the FBI Most Wanted Terrorists website:

Usama Bin Laden is wanted in connection with the August 7, 1998, bombings of the United States Embassies in Dar es Salaam, Tanzania, and Nairobi, Kenya. These attacks killed over 200 people. In addition, Bin Laden is a suspect in other terrorist attacks throughout the world.

.....with no mention of 9/11 whatsoever.

You can also start here if you want to read the 911 Commission Report

911research.wtc7.net...

by the Omission Commission

911research.wtc7.net...

How credible and unbiased would you consider a document authored by individuals with conflicts of interest working towards achieving an identical goal?

Originally posted by Mark_Amy
.....with no mention of 9/11 whatsoever.

It isn't the FBI who indicts individuals, it's the grand jury. They look at the evidence given to them, they file charges, and THEN the FBI puts them on their most wanted list. The question therefore isn't why the FBI doesn't put Bin Laden on their list of criminals, the question is why the Grand Just isn't filing charges against Bin Laden, which you didn't address. There are a number of legitimate reasons why they wouldn't want to file charges via a grand jusry I.E. the gov't wants to charge Bin Laden in a military court, not a civilian court, but you don't address THAT, either. It likewsie doesn't address the information that DOES link bin Laden to the 9/11 attacks I.E. Atta, Hanjour, et al receiving money from Al Qaida. If you don't address it, then we can't discuss it.

This statement is nothing but innuendo dropping, to imply what you want to say, without actually coming out and saying it, becuase you know you have zero information to back up what you want to say- the gov't has no evidence against Bin laden whatsoever. You present it in this way becuase you know you're contradicting all your OTHER claims that the gov't is making up their evidence, facts, and testimony left and right. If they're goign to manufacture accusations against Al Qaida then they're certainly goign to manufacture all the evidence they need against him, and we wouldn't even be having this conversation.

I must tell you I am immune to innuendo games. Please, in the future, just come out and say what you mean to say.

Originally posted by GoodOlDave

I must tell you I am immune to innuendo games. Please, in the future, just come out and say what you mean to say.

Believe it or not, but I'm not playing innuendo games. I'm just simple Joe Public trying to reconcile these two things in my mind. Help me out so that I can understand it because I admit I don't know how these things work with grand juries and indictments, civil court and military court etc.

If the FBI wants OBL for the embassy bombings, does that then mean he has been found guilty of those things by a grand jury? Were those crimes dealt with by a different court?

I just don't understand why he's wanted for those bombings and not for 9/11? Even if there was mention of him being wanted in connection for 9/11 or for being a suspect in 9/11 etc that would be something, but it's the way there is no mention of it that makes it look like there is something fishy going on.

If there's a valid reason for it and it's just the fact that I don't understand how the system works, then that's fine, I accept that.

Mark