Photo - Obama's Kenyan Birth Certificate (political fraud)

Obama has actually benefited nicely from this hoax attention has been distracted away from the problems with his health care plans . Such as the grand sheer scale of the stupidly of the birther movement they are helping the man they claim is ineligible to hold the office of the presidency . BTW its time to name names I can see no point in keeping the name of the source who supplied the fake document a secret any longer .

Originally posted by xpert11
Obama has actually benefited nicely from this hoax attention has been distracted away from the problems with his health care plans . Such as the grand sheer scale of the stupidly of the birther movement they are helping the man they claim is ineligible to hold the office of the presidency . BTW its time to name names I can see no point in keeping the name of the source who supplied the fake document a secret any longer .

I wouldn't go that far.

I've been listening to Hannity every day, and he has NEVER even brought it up.

Neither has Neil Boortz.

The Daily Show has even focused primarily on the Health Care issue.

So none of the real "sides" have been distracted... just a select few from us farm teams

[edit on 7-8-2009 by HunkaHunka]

reply to post by HunkaHunka


Thanks for clearing that up for me .
Here is a couple of questions for you and others .
Do you think that the source who gave the image of the fake document to be displayed should be revealed ?
If so do you think that sufficient pressure is being brought to bear in order to have the sources name revealed ?

I am very much support revealing who ever originally supplied that led us to this point . Its not like the source has supplied any useful information and it would be helpful if members could what ever the source was in future .


[edit on 7-8-2009 by xpert11]

Real life got in the way and I missed it. Now that the forgery has been verified. Can the OP either divulge who her source was, or admit it was her own doing?

I can't believe this went over a hundred pages just to prove that it was a bull crap document.

All the stars flags over a fake, phony document pushed onto the courts by those wingnut birthers and their leader "Dr" Taitz?

lol it funny how the anti- obama people cling to anything and defend it. even though its clearly a fake. dont get me wrong i understand how desperate people make up stuff to try and further their agenda. lol i did it with ivaw. believe me if that was real the government would have shut down everysite were it could be located and some people would prolly end up missing. lol i just think some people should get over it obama is a citizen of the u.s.a. all u who think u are doing something for ur country by trying to keep this birther crap going. u are really only helping obama. if u truly dislike obama and want to make sure his plans for america dont work. then boycott or protest get together and do something. dont sit and whine about something that the vast majority of america thinks is nutz and bs. like i said befor he ws born in the u.s and it prez get over it. dont ask me tp prove he was born in the u.s cuzz i cant. just like u cant prove he is not one. just my 2 cents



salaam

[edit on 7-8-2009 by jmacbeth]

I have stated from the beginning, that once we figured out the “HOW” we should focus on the “WHO.” (We all know “WHY”)

Originally posted by xpert11
Here is a couple of questions for you and others .
Do you think that the source who gave the image of the fake document to be displayed should be revealed?

YES, it is imperative to the forgery/disinfo autopsy.

Originally posted by xpert11
If so do you think that sufficient pressure is being brought to bear in order to have the sources name revealed ?

NO, not a witch-hunt mind you, just an obligation in the spirit of this forum for seeking the TRUTH.

Originally posted by xpert11
I am very much support revealing who ever originally supplied that led us to this point . Its not like the source has supplied any useful information and it would be helpful if members could what ever the source was in future .

DITTO. But not likely, credibility and vanity at stake. Not to mention a healthy dose of subterfuge. This was a DISINFO job. A ruse that back-fired. Pure and simple. I'll just be suspect of ANYTHING posted by OP in the future. Once bitten, twice shy.

Originally posted by whatukno
Now that the forgery has been verified. Can the OP either divulge who her source was, or admit it was her own doing?

The OP probably won’t for reasons above. Seen the OP around here lately? (Perhaps another sinister scheme is being plotted?) All part of the agenda.

Originally posted by whatukno
All the stars flags over a fake, phony document pushed onto the courts by those wingnut birthers and their leader "Dr" Taitz?

I wish I would have said that. Were we switched at birth? Ooopppsss, another conspiracy.

[edit on 7-8-2009 by kinda kurious]

reply to post by kinda kurious


Why should the OP have to reveal her source? The story broke on other outlets the same day from other sources. If she made a promise to her source then so be it. I guess honoring ones word is a thing of the past?? Journalists conceal sources all of the time. In this particular case it is irrelevant anyway. For you it seems more like a personal vendetta. That is obvious.

The only agenda present here involves getting to the truth behind this president. Too many unanswered questions and unnecessary secrets about his life. Transparency? No... Just like he is running his administration.

reply to post by jibeho


The source should be revealed for future reference too suspect documents. Keep in mind lying hypocrites have led to the incarceration of many innocent men.

Originally posted by kinda kurious

Originally posted by whatukno
Now that the forgery has been verified. Can the OP either divulge who her source was, or admit it was her own doing?

The OP probably won’t for reasons above. Seen the OP around here lately? (Perhaps another sinister scheme is being plotted?) All part of the agenda.

Sorry for being otherwise pre-occupied and not responding to this aspect of the discussion sooner.

I am the "intermediary" between a somewhat unknown original source, and FlyersFan.

On the evening of August 1st, I received an email to my personal "Above Network" email account that contained the attached photo I uploaded to our media server. The body of the email contained only this message: "Hi. you probably know me but i need to send this anon. this was sent to me by someone claiming to be close to a foreign investigation of obama. i don't know if its real but i figure your members could find out."

The email was sent via an anonymized web mail service, with no follow-up responses to my questions as to the source. I uploaded the picture to our server and alerted several members who were active in the Obama legitimacy debate... FlyersFan was the first to post.

I wanted to ensure that we (ATS staff/owners) were far outside this debate, and leave it up to our members to work out the issues related to the photographed "document."





I feel this was the best way for us to handle material that was potentially explosively provocative... and the evolution of this thread (even with some of the less-than desirable snipes), is a testament to how well our membership can examine all possible angles of an issue such as this, and decisively land on the truth.


In the midst of this and previous harsh threads regarding Obama, there's been a great deal of animosity expressed toward "ATS." It seems that a large segment of previously anti-Bush members assumed that "ATS" would be pro-Obama once he was in office. Nothing could be further from the truth... "conspiracy theorists" by nature are highly skeptical and reflexively critical of which ever ideological figurehead adorns the nameplates of the offices of power.

I personally see this "natural born" debate as no different than the similarly intense debate about Bush's antics in his "champagne" national guard unit several years ago. And the seemingly anti-Obama tone witnessed on ATS is no different than the seemingly anti-Bush tone of the previous eight years... as was no different than the seemingly anti-Clinton tone before that.


The hoax nature of this document won't end this debate, it will only add to the layers of conspiracy, scandal, and subterfuge of an already complex conspiracy theory. So while the document is hoaxed, the subject is not, and this thread will remain active and firmly within the "Political Conspiracies" forum.

I'm afraid to find out who did this isn't going to be so easy. We have no venue to track down the ip's who sent the pictures to upload.com or Orly. Only law enforcement could track the maker down, but even they might have a fight in their hands. I'm starting to think this might just die down.

Well, let's see, who would have motive, means, and opportunity to pull off this forgery?

"Dr." Tiatz is top on my list. Her motive is obvious, she apparently has the means. (probably gets a nice legal fee every time she wastes the courts time with this garbage) And she does have the opportunity. I would think that the ruskie did it. Course that is the obvious choice.

Then there is the OP, She, like Tiatz has the three things needed to pull this caper. A deep seeded hatred for the President (Motive), She is highly intelligent, (Means). Knowing SkepticOverlords Email addy and sending him a "anon" submission to post on the ATS servers. And the opportunity is there, cause it wouldn't take that long to forge such a document and upload it to the web.

Course, has anyone else seen the OP say "you've been Punked before?" and would that mean that Ashton Kutcher is now a suspect?

Originally posted by SkepticOverlord
On the evening of August 1st, I received an email to my personal "Above Network" email account that contained the attached photo I uploaded to our media server.......

I uploaded the picture to our server and alerted several members who were active in the Obama legitimacy debate... FlyersFan was the first to post......

I wanted to ensure that we (ATS staff/owners) were far outside this debate, and leave it up to our members to work out the issues related to the photographed "document."

Just quoting highlights here.

Inasmuch as I appreciate the mea culpa. I feel somewhat duped that this information was NOT presented sooner despite numerous pleas.

The last quoted paragraph regarding culpable management involvement seems to contradict the fact that this thread ping-ponged between Hoax and Non hoax and was afforded not one, not two, but THREE updates.

As I pointed out twice now, hundreds of other sites are linking to the file posted on ATS servers, thereby perpetuating the forgery. I had, until now, always defended ATS and expected it to do the right thing. I am deeply disappointed by this revelation.

Ban me if you like, but I would gladly go down in flames than idly stand by and have this ruse go unchallenged. I am in no way insinuating this was allowed to continue to spike traffic. Just seems a tad late in my book.

Without Wax....Kinda Kurious


[edit on 7-8-2009 by kinda kurious]

Originally posted by kinda kurious
I feel somewhat duped that this information was NOT presented sooner.

Despite our best intentions, previous topics that originated from source material we (ATS) uncovered was always "colored" by speculation of our potential involvement. Damned if we do, damned if we don't.

The last quoted paragraph regarding culpable management involvement seems to contradict the fact that this thread ping-ponged between Hoax and Non hoax and was afforded nont one, not two, but THREE updates.

All we were doing was attempting to update the opening post and thread title with the most accurate information at the time... so as to present the most-current thinking of our members to new visitors first discovering the topics.

As I pointed out twice now, hundreds of other sites are linking to the file posted on ATS servers, thereby perpetuating the forgery.

Hosting the image for examination is wrong? (puzzled)

I am deeply disappointed by this revelation.

I'm not sure I understand why?

Well, if it is now a proven hoax as the thread title implies, isn't there a dedicated forum where this thread belongs? Shouldn't it be moved there? Mike Singh's 911/CIA/MOSSAD thread sure went there in a hurry, even though his premise was only based on what have been labeled known hoaxes.

[HOAX]!

Woo-Hoo! What a fun thread! LOL

As far as who did this, I would wager it's just a disgruntled birther who is a member or lurker on ATS. Someone who "wants to believe" so badly that they do and will do anything to prove it. Someone with the means and time to scour the internet searching for a foreign-looking BC that they could modify in their hours of free time in their basement. Someone who doesn't know (until now) the power of ATS members to find the truth...

Orly Taitz is somewhat intelligent and that is a strike against her because whoever did this was dumb enough to actually think this fake would fly. I think Taitz actually believes Obama was born in Kenya and while she would believe a faked certificate in a second, I doubt she'd make it herself.

Originally posted by whatukno
Course, has anyone else seen the OP say "you've been Punked before?"

No, but the OP was edited by SO several times. I assumed (but could be wrong) that he is the person who wrote that "we" had been Punked, not FlyersFan.

Please don't comment in this thread about me posting here. Send me a U2U or post in my profile. Thanks.

Originally posted by SkepticOverlord

Originally posted by kinda kurious
As I pointed out twice now, hundreds of other sites are linking to the file posted on ATS servers, thereby perpetuating the forgery.

Hosting the image for examination is wrong? (puzzled)

In the same way posting fake UFO videos on You Tube is suspect.

If your read some of the other forums, "Hey I just found this fake document......" Link here: media.abovetopsecret.xxxxxxxxxxxx

It should have had a HOAX watermark.

I've NEVER heard someone say, "Hey, look at this counterfit money the bank just gave me."

OK, a little silly example. But my point is credibility.

Originally posted by SkepticOverlord

Originally posted by kinda kurious
I am deeply disappointed by this revelation.

I'm not sure I understand why?

In a word... decency.

Sorry, for initial format issues, typos. Don't tase me bro.




[edit on 7-8-2009 by kinda kurious]

[edit on 7-8-2009 by kinda kurious]

I dont think it was any birther. I think it was an anti-birther because of the whole 'you got punk'd' photo series. Who would punk their own kind?

What a complete waste of time space and energy.

The birth issues are irrelevant, and a mass distraction and deflection from far more serious issues. You all are playing their game perfectly.

Have you all lost sight of what this administration and congress are doing and attempting to do?

You should know that the American people are having an impact on their agendas, you should focus your efforts there not on this waste of time.

The extreme left including the president and top leaders in the house and senate along with other corporate and government elite are increasingly frustrated by the lack of popularity for their socialist health care plan, and their energy reform plans, their spending of trillions on expansion of government, ownership of financial institutions, auto industries, and growing controls over the private sector, and the looming massive tax increases needed to pay for it all.

The American people are waking up to what is going on and so many here are wasting time on this trivial birth issue... That is what they would rather have you doing... Don't you get that yet?

I have a prediction for you....

Prepare for the most massive election fraud in history in the 2010 elections, shadow groups and organizations tied to the left elite and current president and administration are already well funded, and preparing to do whatever it takes to retain their majority power beyond 2010. They need more time to get their agendas through and fully implemented. They have already shown that the people be damned for this cause. Prepare, stay alert, get involved.... The weeks and months ahead are going to be very rough for this nation, and EVERYTHING is at stake!

Stop wasting time on this CRAP!

reply to post by kinda kurious


I would find it difficult to hold ATS management accountable for this document. I tend to believe that it was exactly as explained, and believe the neutrality of ATS management in this issue.

While indeed ATS management does have all three factors as far as suspicion in this forgery case go, it would not be in their best interest to be culpable of the forgery itself. As fast as members tend to conclusively debunk garbage on this site it would certainly be found out rather quickly that it was a management forgery.

The neutrality factor on this issue by the management here points to someone else as the culprit in this case. ATS is only culpable as far as posting a picture for the scrutiny of it's membership and not to blame for any bias pertaining to the picture itself.

reply to post by whatukno


To clarfy:

I am saying they (un)knowingly perpetuated it. NOT that they were original source.

IMO, The Image should have had a watermark or been qualified suspect.

Examples:
[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/b08325391259.jpg[/atsimg]




[edit on 7-8-2009 by kinda kurious]