What will it take for you to Stop Believing!? (Deity)

I cannot answer your questions in such that it would satisfy you or anyone that feels much like you. I can however state my 1 and only reason that is above all other reasons that I continue my belief and faith in God

John 20:29(NIV)

29Then Jesus told him, "Because you have seen me, you have believed; blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed."

That can go for many belief systems, not just religious. But with that 1 statement I have made my decision on my beliefs, I would think that is all that a person can do. Decide what you will belive in and live life accordingly.

Good luck on getting the absolute physical proof, just remember the old saying, "ask and ye shall receive" as well as " careful what you ask for, you just might get it"

reply to post by TurkeyBurgers


Well, a conciousness raiser at least.

I would honestly, if asked said what would make me believe aliens do not exist, would provide a well thought out answer.

And I already know it.

Personally, I do believe that they exists, although interaction with us, I find lacking. Or inteligence I find lacking.

St. Vaas whatever, is already diverting the thread by attacking me, which i'm sure many others will do, i'll just have to be the martyr asking questions, and having people attack him for being the only one asking the important questions.

This is an interesting thread (and those like this one), and a topic that will most-likely never go away. I respect threads like this one, and it's one of those reasons I am friends with you here on ATS. There is nothing better than being genuine. Searching for genuine answers to questions without any other reason than just wanting to know the answers is what keeps us all coming here to ATS.

The problem with 'God' is that, it can be classically argued that he doesn't exsist, because well...there is simply NO hard proof. Now, there could be millions of Scitzo's out there. He could be a figment of everyones imagination just like Santa Clause, and I wholly understand why one would think this is the case with God.

Personally republican08, I won't stop believing in God because I have witnessed God. Yes, that could "easily" make me seem to be insane to any sane person. You could be right, perhaps it's pure insanity! However, I've heard him speak to me as the still small voice. I've had an experience where when I was a teenager, a flood of his exsistance was revealed to me and all very unexpected and without drugs! I will never forget it. Whenever I'm in a bind or in a bad spot, or in a position that I just do not know what to do...there's always a little voice who, in the back of my mind knows the right choices etc and gives advice. Whether I take that advice is my choice, in fact I mostly ignore it and end up learning that it was wrong, by experiencing those choices I had made by mistake. Again, perhaps this is proof of it being nothing more than insanity.

I'm not trying to ask questions, because I respect your thread. But for me, it's like...what if one day you learned that Santa Clause was real because he came down your chimney and said "hi!" then ate your cookies and flew away on his raindeer. lol. Most people would be like...Go see a doctor! Well....maybe *I* should concerning God, but if I'm insane, I choose to stay insane! Bottom line is that if you've experienced God's presence in his true form, theres absolutely no way of ever denying it's exsistence.






[edit on 1-8-2009 by Wookiep]

reply to post by Republican08


I'm afraid I don't get what your getting at. I read your post I saw your questions, and forgive me I asked you a question about the subject. Is that forbidden? Why do people believe in religions and higher powers & spirit worlds? You can go into it as much as you want with psychology, people need it to be stable etc etc. You can play these question games to seem smarter than me, maybe because I believe, or asked you a question pertaining to the subject. Maybe you are smarter than me, but I what believe hurts no one, so why can't I believe in it?

It doesn't matter at the end though, just as long as a person lives life as they believe in living it. We must learn to respect, love, and forgive each other. The hatred against a sect of people or beliefs is what ruins the world we live in with mass genocides and world wars.

[edit on 1-8-2009 by asmall89]

Making somone believe and not believe ( or change belief) are the same, you show they something that:

A ) contradict their belief without a shadow of a doubt ( kinda like showing a Christan there is no heaven, or hell....w/e )

B ) Make them agree to undertake some sort of task that in the end would demolish their belief.

thats all i can think of.

im sure people someone will say " show me my dead kitty, Mr.Bojangles" but those are silly

I am going to count and keep track of the number of people who fit into one of the three roles that I described. I will wager 500 ATS points (unless it is illegal to gamble with ATS points?) That the next ten posts will fit into one of the three roles that I described before someone will answer the question.

reply to post by Pappa_Bear


Thank you for a good, and in your eyes, legitimate answer.

It was thought out and somewhat appropriate.

Although I think the bible is bs, I find some sound answers in it.

I'd still like to trully know, what it would take, whether you feel it would satisfy me or not.

I am one hard dude to satisfy though.

So i'd just like to hear the myriad of answers. Surely there has to be something that would make you stop believing.

Excluding death of a daughter, something evidence wise.

reply to post by phi1618


trust me, I use to love philosophy, but it was as teasing as a stripper, with no real finish.

But it does raise doubt, and doubt is the ultimate killer of religion (and religious people tend to believe doubt is from the devil)*just makes me feel like the antichrist really*

Discussions are good though, even if no side wins, it's the battles that count, not the war.

reply to post by Republican08


Well tragic events sometime make people lose faith in their traditional god/gods.

or

a tragedy can raise their faith and belief.

so in the end, it all depends on the individual in those circumstances.

I have relatives that a fanatical about ther bible, others who are atheist, others who are wishy washy.

So the best answer for you good sir would be :

experiences shape who we are and they also shape our beliefs. In the end life is too short to be worrying about what happens when one dies, worry about it in the grave.

"
Discussions are good though, even if no side wins, it's the battles that count, not the war"

In an endless war, battles are meaningless

[edit on 1-8-2009 by phi1618]

Originally posted by asmall89
reply to post by Republican08

 

I'm afraid I don't get what your getting at. I read your post I saw your questions, and forgive me I asked you a question about the subject. Is that forbidden? Why do people believe in religions and higher powers & spirit worlds? You can go into it as much as you want with psychology, people need it to be stable etc etc. You can play these question games to seem smarter than me, maybe because I believe, or asked you a question pertaining to the subject. Maybe you are smarter than me, but I what believe hurts no one, so why can't I believe in it?

It doesn't matter at the end though, just as long as a person lives life as they believe in living it. We must learn to respect, love, and forgive each other. The hatred against a sect of people or beliefs is what ruins the world we live in with mass genocides and world wars.

[edit on 1-8-2009 by asmall89]

www.foxnews.com...
www.jihadwatch.org...

Honor killings and so on.

They hurt other people!

Religion stunts evolution, it keeps religion in schools for child indoctrination.

If you want to believe in Pink Unicorns, that is not okay with me. It's not it just isn't.

A pink unicorn does not exist. I cannot say 100% no, but 99% I can say it doesn't exist.

Yet people fight tooth and nail to prove that 1% is ultimately true.

People don't need religion to be stable, see my thread On the Basis of Morality.

Sir I don't prepose i'm smarter then you, for all I know I may possibly be not smarter then you, defining to the base of what smart actually is.

I simply posted in the OP that no questions be asked back, but it's okay anyways. Sorry for attacking you as I did, I apologize for that.

reply to post by Wookiep


I appreciate your post and your question at that!

It seems like you kind of no it's illogical to believe in a god, but you do it anyways, fine ok.

I think that voice in the back of your head is simply your instinct, I highly doubt you heard words, audible words. More or less Google, The Human Body Pushing the Limits, Brain. And watch the movie on it, extraordinary!

If I saw santa claus, in flesh come down and eat my cookies, I wouldn't sit back quietly.

I would ask him tons of questions, how did he come to be, why does he do what he does, why does he come only when noone is watching, I would question him!

reply to post by Republican08


Actually there is nothing that would cause me to stop believing, not even the death of a child as I have put 2 of mine in the ground already

I have my beliefs, no they are not based on any organized religion as I have studied, researched and continue to do so to truly understand where the origins of our current bible has come from, I feel man for various reasons, some good and some nefarious have tampered with and changed the original writings and concepts to what we have today. I ask more questions than you at times. So I have nothing more than faith to rely on for my own personal beliefs.

I will share with you my turning point, even though it may very well cause some to say I'm off my meds and rocker.
I was ready to write God off completely. I felt I had to test just one thing my mom always told me though. "Without God life would be a black hole"
So I asked God to give me just 1 minute of my life without him in it, immediately everything felt heavy and dark, and the darkness was thick, you could feel it; so dark I felt totaly and completely alone even though I was only 5 feet from my front door and my wife was only a couple of feet inside that door. That 1 minute seemed to last a very long time, then just as suddenly everything was back to normal. That day and ever since i have not doubted that God existed.

I cannot say that I have lived my life by my beliefs as I should all these years since either; but that ismy burden, noone else's . So I keep studying, researching, and I have found that every belief system requires Faith, whether it is faith in science, religion, aliens, or yourself doesn't matter, it is still faith. Each person must decide on where they will place their faith . I have made my decision, be it right or wrong I will stand on it and continue with it.

reply to post by Republican08

I would ask him tons of questions, how did he come to be, why does he do what he does, why does he come only when noone is watching, I would question him!

LOL, yep in many ways we think a lot alike. I've asked my share of questions, but for some reason I do not think he wishes for me to know those ones that question his exsistence. The answer I get is this. "Even the demons believe in God and tremble." To God, his mere exsistence isn't the reason for us being here. I've questioned God more times than I can count my friend, and he tends to stick within his own *guidlines* if you will. If I ask God about creation, usually he shows me something small like a butterfly out the window. I end up just appreciating the mere fact that I exsist. If I ask him for advice on say, how can I stop being so angry at said person? It's always purely an un-questionable answer.

reply to post by Republican08

It's all good, it's not like I wasn't expecting an interesting reply lol. I've done my fair share.

I know of the atrocities that Religion has committed, you also have to consider that is a small proportion of people on Earth. But science has committed atrocities as well. The thought of Eugenics in the early 20th century, the idea that one race is superior to another, caused many deaths, especially in the Holocaust. Nazi's would even test drugs, weapons, surgeries on Jews because they were "inferior" to them. So we must understand that if one would just respect another persons belief (that doesn't mean you have to like it) this World would be a better place. We can't let logic rule out morality and reason, if Scientists found that Asians were the smartest people in the world and Caucasians the dumbest, does that mean that the Asians have more of a right to live than Caucasians? No. Thank goodness that is not accepted in our society. I like your threads, I find your thoughts interesting mostly because I struggle with my beliefs every day. Ask the same questions. But ultimately believe, for some reason.

I guess the way I think of it is if there is no God, well at least I'll have a nice drug trip when I die

[edit on 1-8-2009 by asmall89]

reply to post by Pappa_Bear


I think for one minute you purposely and distinctly perceived the world as it is, not by a divine being influencing you, but by you understanding it. And perhaps despising the world as it is.

For me it is easy to think in billions among billions time billions our universe will be nothing but black holes, I can accept that.

I feel ok with that, it's tough, but i'm ok with that, I don't need and no offense intended a delusion to help me cope with it.

reply to post by asmall89


lol, well if it was an evolutionary process caucasions would die, and asians would live. But on a larger scale.

Humans have always just considered it here and now. Humans are a prime example of speedy evolution, really speeding up the process.

Survival of the fittest.

I've struggled with that which you have.

I would really, extremely love to believe a god is there, but honestly and soundly can't believe it, it's such a nice and comforting thought, yet because of my understandings, I cannot accept the delusion.

I am quite envious of believers, although I indulge in lust of the fact I don't believe, but hate it at the same time, savvy? I barely am.

reply to post by Republican08
sorry, the answer is nothing.nothing you could ever say, would
even give me the slightest bit of doubt. i've seen and heard to much,
to not know there is power in the name of Jesus Christ like no other.
this guy comes back from Nam right. my partner went to see him.
he said the guy was so messed up. shell shock, agent orange , and almost completly
consumed by his heroin addiction coupled w/ his prescription meds.
my partner said don't even go there, you might just find him dead.
he gave the guy 3 weeks he said tops. that he might as well died in
combat, that it wasn't even him anymore.i felt pretty bad about hearing
that cause i thought it was so cool that he made it back.
long story short.about a yr and a half after that.
goin to work one day we stoped at dennys.
the guy was settin there w/ this pregnant woman.
i looked at my partner like wtf.
we started talkin.
he confirmed everything my partnre said.
this guy was completly healthy and happy married w/ a kid on the way.
he told us that he would have died but his sister, had been
tryin to bring him to Christ for yrs. stoped by and said well your gonna die anyway why not give whats left of you to the lord.
you already know the turn around.
no other name on earth does that for people
this much i know for a fact.
so why would i not believe?
and he met his wife thru the church.
i'll never for4get the look on my partners face ,
like someone just made the biggest liar out of him.
i stiill see the guy to this day happy ever after. truly amazing.

[edit on 1-8-2009 by randyvs]

reply to post by Wookiep


I believe for readers purpose you took my quote out of context.

The quote reffered to by wookie was about me and santa claus meeting, for readers purpose solely.

The fact you exist, i've come to start to acknowledge is no gift at all, it is a force, you had no choice in it, you had no say in it, (although reincarnation tends to argue some aspects of this to justify it). You being alive, is not special at all.

Imagine beings on other planets light years away, doing the same forum we are, and saying the same things, its unbearably awful.

Do you think they are special to, think of the billions on this planet, then try and contemplate the vastness of the universe, then contemplate the quadrilions, time the billlions time the millions time the quadrilllions, again and again, of living creatures out there, you sir, just happen to know you exist in a universe. Opposed to those that don't.

Life is not significant at all, we just pretend it is.

reply to post by Republican08


no offense taken, you asked a question, as you should, I can only answer from my personal perspective. I sure don't have the answers, I, like you am still looking for answers myself. I have just chosen in which direction I wish to look for my own personal answers.

I actualy enjoy conversations as this, they cause one to stop and reflect on thier beliefs, and many times bring out other things to look at, question and learn from.

reply to post by Republican08


I'm not going to quote your post. I'll just simply say I disagree. It could be argued that your view on our exsistence is pretty sad. If you are right, then you are right. There is nothing else to be lost. Some people just choose to believe otherwise, and also feel they have experienced otherwise!