What will it take for you to Stop Believing!? (Deity)

reply to post by Republican08

Your Avatar has written under it...... that "you believe in accidents". Good. The following "accident" is one that you might want to add to your collection.

I might have a video that would certainly indicate that there is "something" here that appears to support Bible stories of "Guardian Angels" watching over the COG. My wife and I were crossing a street and were "protected" from being run over by an SUV by a "woman/angel???" whom we both saw but does not appear on the video where we both "first" saw her. The "woman" does show up in the video walking beside us and advancing towards the SUV with her arm outstretched as though she were pushing the SUV and the other car involved in the accident away from us as we moved back at an unreal super speed. I inline skate and video record my skates. My camera was moved to the side of my backpack or the video would have shown more of the incident. But, I got enough of the "incident" to have "proof" of my interpretation of the "incident". I have shown the video to others and they too are amazed... shocked. Some of those who have viewed the video were die hard atheists.

I'll have to think about what to do with this video. I'm not sure that I want to upload the video to the Net.

So... why am I writing this post?

Towards the "End" it was said the we humans would almost be able to prove that there is a God. We just might be fulfilling this prophecy with all the cameras that are recording our daily activities. I might have a video that has recorded...... "something" which you seek.

If God isn't real, then why is he the most attacked figure on the planet? There are other religions around the world but I don't see anyone lashing out at zeus everytime something goes wrong in their life. Last time I checked, there was never a public protest condemning shiva over the events going on in the world. The monotheistic God is the most attacked figure in human history. If It isn't real, everyone protesting against It is just as if not more "crazy" than those who believe. Atleast those who believe are instilling a purpose in their "imaginary friend", people who are attacking It seem to be doing so if for no other reason than to attack something.

Let me put this into 3rd person observation terms. Imagine that there is an arbitrary point in a field that people considered to be "their god". Overtime, the stories of the exact point's location and scenery changed as there was never any clear marker placed.

Let's say we walk past and see a group simply worshipping a point (which is not the original point). We'd both think they were crazy for believing in a point on the ground without question or any proof.

Now say we observed a single group throwing stones at a point (which is far away from the original point) in protest of its "existence". We'd both think that group is crazy for attacking something with no real proof of it doing anything.

Finally, let's say we came across this same point (which has been distanced from the original point) and we see worshippers and believers on one side and protesters and detractors on the other. We'd both agree to some extent that the original point did something to gain such positive and negative attention.

If it was made-up to be worshipped, why are people so capable of passionately challenging it? If it was made-up to be protested, how is it that people can come to still have faith in the point that is so constantly attacked? They aren't even going head-to-head over the original point, and there is still a great amount of conviction on both sides. It'd be different if one set believed and the others just simply dismissed their belief or vice-versa, but both groups believing that said point warrants their opinion on it, says to me that there is something to that point whether or not the original point was made up in the first place.

So to answer your question, for me to stop believing, I'd have to see everybody who believes "I'm just believing in a fairy" to let it go. If it's fake, it doesn't warrant your time to oppose it. Everytime you attack or question God (and his original point which has been twisted over the years by both sides), those that believe are reassured that what they pray to does indeed exist and that there is something to those stories in books edited by man even if most of them were changed. Truth be told, I was a very adamant atheist until I pondered that very idea. "If it's fake, why am I and so many other people giving the effort to oppose it?"

[edit on 1-8-2009 by Eitimzevinten]

Originally posted by TurkeyBurgers

What type and amount of evidence would it take for someone of Religious faith to stop believing?

None. The faithful will always believe. Humans are created to worship, believe and have faith but not knowledge. Knowledge or direct perception of reality, that's another matter. We were denied that from the onset. When someone thought that wasn't right and went around standing orders and "gave" humans the power to discern for themselves - we were kicked out of "paradise" on some godforsaken planet. The new orders are to have faith and pray. And as little contact with divinities as possible, especially with the kind that can bestow "upgrades".

The other thing is, why is it that believers are always killing the non-believers? Hitler,Stalin and such don't count because they killed believers and non-believers alike. I mean what believer has been killed by non-believers specifically for the act of believing? Recently? It's always the other way around, to this day. When the faithful are persecuted it is because they believe in the wrong god and it is done to them by other believers.

Here is a question: What does god believe in? Who does he pray to before he goes to bed? If the answer is nothing and no one, then that's what I believe in. If it is good enough for god, it is good enough for me. The part of me that is made in his image can say that.

I doubt that this will convince the faithful but I thought I'd try.


[edit on 1-8-2009 by tungus]

If the entire world fell apart - global anarchy, say after a catastrophic event, would god matter? Would god care?

Those who are left - scavenging for scraps, no wealthy hypocrites to abuse..

I cannot wait. self sufficiency would be the rule.

And none but those self-sufficient, would be better off.

The bear does not ask the carp if he can eat him alive. The bear just survives. WE otoh, given the frailty of language and communication, will need better circumstances.

and I already know where I would lay.



[edit on 1/8/2009 by Ha`la`tha]

reply to post by tungus


Hello ATS and OP! I am an atheist and proud of it, but 8 years ago I used to be a catholic. So, as you can see, it is possible for someone religious to stop believing in religion.
So, since your question is "what can make you stop believing?" I will answer with what made me stop believing.

the first thing that made me stop believing were the obvious erroneous scientific facts that were suppose to be taken literally (Earth was created in 6 days, yet there is overwhelming evidence that points to billion of years. the tower of Babylon incident that made everyone in the planet speak different languages, yet English did not exist 3000 years ago. Noah brought all animals in pairs or sevens into the arc, yet going around the world collecting so many animals in such a small amount of time and making them fit inside a ship is a mathematical impossibility, etc).

Second, it was some of the contradictions I found in the bible. I don't remember exactly, but there were some passages that described a certain amount of soldiers, yet in a different passage that told the same incident the number of soldiers was different. Or when god tells the Israelites to not kill, and a few pages later they go in a killing spree because they god told them so, thus contradicting himself. Or in the new testament, when jesus comes out of his grave and depending on the gospel the people who see him come out of the grave are always completely different. Among many others.

third, I simply could not believe in a god without evidence. Surely an all powerful entity would make himself known everyday and his existence should be a common fact of life for ALL humans? like the sun, we all agree the sun exists and is a big part of our lives, so if this powerful entity plays such a great part in our lives then his existence would be as clear as that as the sun and atheists and other religions wouldn't exist. But obviously that is not the case.

Last but not least I became disgusted with the authoritarian figure of this god. All the murdering, insane laws, unreasonable attitude, etc. I started to see this character as an antagonistic, manipulative figure for humanity than a loving being. in fact notice most christians talk more about jesus than god. It's probably because jesus was more reasonable and showed better character than his dictatorial father.

However, even as an atheist I do not believe that people who hold on to a belief are stupid or delusional. they might not criticize beliefs and think that a god is a fact instead of an idea, but that does not necessarily mean the person is a complete nut case. In fact i met some university professors and brilliant men and women that believed in some sort of god. I still don't completely understand why so many people do not question their beliefs, it might be fear or it might have become part of who they are. I do see religious beliefs as illogical, but because a person holds on to a ridiculous, possibly childish belief does not mean that they can't be brilliant scientist or historians.

In fact people who believe in gods are essential, they can teach us about their religion and make us understand their point of view, as well as explaining their stories. Religion is a part of world culture and dismissing it as unimportant is not wise. It would be like saying the ancient stories of Zeus and Apollo are of no value to us and calling their followers idiots or retards. so, I might not believe that religions and gods are true, but these same people that believe in this can still teach you a thing or two. It all comes down to whether you'll listen and debate with them without trying to insult them and using as much reason as possible so as to not offend them, as well as making sure you do not get offended by what they say.

If there is an Anti-Christ there is a God. He's pretty real considering he's giving his first interview in the latter half of 2009. Meaning that the opposite must also be real. Given that it is still possible to perform a miracle and healings take place by just faith in God even from cancer I'm pretty sure there is a God and it IS the "Judeo-Christian" God. I would just call him the ONLY God. It's not Maitreya either because I know how many people THAT will fool.

And I'm going to be labeled the bad guy and he'll keep on saying it and the media will put a spin on it as well labeling the good guys (albeit destroying cities etc.) evil and the Beast and False Prophet the Second Coming. BAHAHA.

By faith you can stop bullets. By faith you can heal. If only people had faith. Faith enough to do anything as long as you trust in the Only living God.

Luke 18:8 "I say unto you, that he will avenge them speedily. Nevertheless, when the Son of Man cometh, shall he find faith on the earth?"

[edit on 8/1/2009 by watchtheashes]

Hmm. believers didn't fold when confronted with death at the mouths of lions. Do you think that your intellectualizing everything will convince anyone that has had a deeply spiritual experience.
Bust a nut and try as you will. You'll just be disappointed.

I am a believer in manifesting our destiny, therefor saying WE are in control of our outcome. If one is unaware of this ability we will aimlessly stumble through life thinking things just happen. People will say" IT was a sign from god" or "that was a miracle" yeah and fish falling from the Sky couldn't possibly have ment that there was just a waterspout in the area. My one single problem I have with the idea of god is what possible reason does a child have to be tortured, raped, beaten.Why would a loving god allow that to happen to to an innocent child. Or allow some nut job to board a bus loaded with goodhearted people and detonate a bomb. There is not a single reason why this would be allowed to happen unless we are on our own to make our own choices.

reply to post by randyvs

no other name on earth does that for people this much i know for a fact. so why would i not believe? and he met his wife thru the church. i'll never for4get the look on my partners face , like someone just made the biggest liar out of him. i stiill see the guy to this day happy ever after. truly amazing.

Dude what's to say that the guy just felt better having met a decent babe had good sex and was now expecting new life ?

Just because he thanks jesus for his good luck doesn't make jesus real.

If I happen to be down at my lowest ebb ever in the world (which I was at one point) and happen to stumble into a fairy party and meet the hottest babe in the world there. I'm hardly going to insult her and thank the leprechauns for blessing me am I ?

No doubt if the vet had topped himself, well that would be the work of satan wouldn't it, for goodness sake wise up.

If you're going to try and present evidence at least have the courtesy of not introducing hearsay.

Surely out of the billions of xtians prancing around the planet at least one could provide us with evidence of an amputee having a limb regenerated ?

That's no too hard for Jesus is it ? Only one, one single live as your but incident of an xtian praying for an amputee and the limb being regenerated right in front of the eyes.

That's all it would take to get a lot of people seriously considering the validity of your (up till now) delusion.

Just found this funny video. Thought it fits to here. You can not argue against that.

www.youtube.com...

He put's atheists on the same level like animals and sex fiends.
That's hilarious.

about that man:
youtube.wikia.com...

reply to post by Eitimzevinten

If God isn't real, then why is he the most attacked figure on the planet? There are other religions around the world but I don't see anyone lashing out at zeus everytime something goes wrong in their life.

Zeus does not send people to my door asking for money to fix the roof on his church, or tell my children that they will be tortured for all eternity if they act upon their natural sexual urges.

Dude get a grip.

What will it take for you to Stop Believing!?

Nothing. There is absolutely nothing you can do at all whatsoever. You are completely powerless to stop me from believing in and having a relationship with my God. So I guess just sit there and twiddle your thumbs or pluck one strand of your hair out at a time in frustration because nothing is going to change my mind. It's out of your control.

There seems to be more, and more, and more substantiating evidence, mounting that Deities and such, are not real...

Really? Because all I ever hear from atheists is 'You can't prove a negative.' And are you not familiar with physics? There is a reason why some physicists have said the more they study the science, the more they believe in a higher power. Life-long atheists have changed their views once they come to know the rational intelligibility of the universe. Then I see detailed prophecy being fulfilled before my eyes. I have also seen God take an active role in my life that defies external explanation.


I really wish atheists would just get over it. You're powerless. You can't do anything about it. You cannot squash the belief in God no matter how often you throw around the words, 'Lunatics, retard, pink unicorns, Santa Claus,' and all the other insults I saw just briefly skimming the OP and a couple of other posts.

This thread gives atheists a bad name and is a reason why so many of you have a reputation for being preachy and self righteous. It's the 'Neener neener neener. Look at the insane theists believing in sky fairies while we over here hold the patent in logic and critical thinking' vibe devout atheists give off.

If atheists don't want to believe, if agnostics aren't sure what to believe, and if theists believe, then leave it at that. When one resorts to ridicule like hurling insults such as lunatics and retards, that shows me a lack of confidence in their beliefs. It's the classic bully complex: Tear others down so you feel better about yourself. In this case, tear down the beliefs of others so you feel more confident in your own beliefs.

It's threads like this that give atheism a religious, evangelistic feel to it.

reply to post by moocowman

Dude what's to say that the guy just felt better having met a decent babe had good sex and was now expecting new life ?

wtf. why do you write like keeanu reeves talks?
or may be your suffering from some kind of mental disorder.
i thought it was clear, that he met her after he gave his life to the lord.
who said anything about presenting evidence. what's wrong w/ you?
weird.....

Just because you don't understand, doesn't make it not real.

Just because you are angry at religions and the religious, doens't make the universe give a crap about it.

Your proof isn't proof, it is a theory with presumptions. Making is just another religion.

What makes people get rid of religion enmass? Nothing. The adoption of a whole new meme that encompasses that the Universe has some purpose, and that purpose includes us, and has some reason to have a system of ethical values as a part of a logical universe. Something that appeals to our sense of hierarchy, while allowing a sense of freedom and a plan of action for daily and long term living.

What you have isn't proof of a lack of divinity. What you have is angry disgust and condesending attintude towards others and a belief in your own superiority. Making you just another Fundamentalist.

Originally posted by randyvs
reply to post by moocowman

 

Dude what's to say that the guy just felt better having met a decent babe had good sex and was now expecting new life ?

wtf. why do you write like keeanu reeves talks?
or may be your suffering from some kind of mental disorder.
i thought it was clear, that he met her after he gave his life to the lord.
who said anything about presenting evidence. what's wrong w/ you?
weird.....

Obviously it wasn't clear what was meant by "giving his life to the lord" you have to appreciate that , you may write like Ted Haggard talks and I may not necessarily be fully conversant in xtian speakology.

I once almost became a catholic in order to get some trim from the most hottest babe I ever came across at the time.

Needless to say if I was asked to testify my belief in god I would have done so at the drop of a hat in order to get hitched up with the babe in question.

Ashley D is a very beautiful intelligent woman and I respect her beauty more than her beliefs, which seem kind of strange to me. Now if I were a few years younger I wouldn't bat an eyelid at accepting her beliefs as my own in order to wake up next to her every morning for the rest of my life (well at least till she got all wrinkly lol) , no problem at all dude, I'd be thanking Allah or anyone else she asked me to thank for my good fortune.


(No offense AD if your reading this heathen, just trying to make a point)

I think belief in God is a given. The problem develops when you start to ask yourself which God?

Most people are clever enough to realize that there is something severely wrong with the Gods that most religions try to shove down your throat. That is because most religions are nothing more then institutions devised to control and manipulate.

You want to know what will make you stop believing? Religion will stop you from believing because religion is the pathway to hell and most of them are about man, not God.

You want to believe. Dump religion, step outside, look around and shed your ego. You will see God, hear him and feel him.

God is everywhere and if he has a mind to, he will even be under the stairs chewing your bubble gum.

Originally posted by AshleyD

What will it take for you to Stop Believing!?

Nothing. There is absolutely nothing you can do at all whatsoever. You are completely powerless to stop me from believing in and having a relationship with my God. So I guess just sit there and twiddle your thumbs or pluck one strand of your hair out at a time in frustration because nothing is going to change my mind. It's out of your control.

There seems to be more, and more, and more substantiating evidence, mounting that Deities and such, are not real...

Really? Because all I ever hear from atheists is 'You can't prove a negative.' And are you not familiar with physics? There is a reason why some physicists have said the more they study the science, the more they believe in a higher power. Life-long atheists have changed their views once they come to know the rational intelligibility of the universe. Then I see detailed prophecy being fulfilled before my eyes. I have also seen God take an active role in my life that defies external explanation.

 

I really wish atheists would just get over it. You're powerless. You can't do anything about it. You cannot squash the belief in God no matter how often you throw around the words, 'Lunatics, retard, pink unicorns, Santa Claus,' and all the other insults I saw just briefly skimming the OP and a couple of other posts.

This thread gives atheists a bad name and is a reason why so many of you have a reputation for being preachy and self righteous. It's the 'Neener neener neener. Look at the insane theists believing in sky fairies while we over here hold the patent in logic and critical thinking' vibe devout atheists give off.

If atheists don't want to believe, if agnostics aren't sure what to believe, and if theists believe, then leave it at that. When one resorts to ridicule like hurling insults such as lunatics and retards, that shows me a lack of confidence in their beliefs. It's the classic bully complex: Tear others down so you feel better about yourself. In this case, tear down the beliefs of others so you feel more confident in your own beliefs.

It's threads like this that give atheism a religious, evangelistic feel to it.

Great Post!

The problem with the "Evangelical Atheists" Is they are a mirror of their fundamentalist counterparts with their zeal.

What is an "Evangelical Atheist"?
www.urbandictionary.com...

2. Evangelical Atheist
See asshole
An evangelical atheist is one who not only believes there is no god or other supreme being, but is obsessed with convincing everyone around them to become an atheist too, usually through hard-line intolerance (the kind they accuse other religions of). When cornered they usually try to put down their opponent's religion and bash them for 'blind faith', not realizing that their belief that there is no god is no more or less valid or provable than the other guy's belief that there is one.
Not to be confused with normal atheists/agnostics, who for the most part just don't talk about religion and accept the beliefs of those around them as their prerogative. Evangelical atheists are particularly common on the Internet, as organized religion is generally accepted as part of 'the system' of global human society, and lately it's become cool on the Internet to hate 'the system'.

Evangelical atheist usually seeks to "convert" borderline theists, often by engaging in debate with fundamentalists.

Below is a good article about it. (Note, it depicts the more fundamentalist religion haters but you get the idea.
www.catholicleague.org...

Nevertheless, some of the brightest minds in the English-speaking world right now argue that religion is the problem. And we know they’re the brightest minds because they keep telling us they are. The New Atheists are positively evangelical. They want to make a convert out of you, although if you’re a “dyed-in-the-wool faith-head” they’ll settle for peppering you with insults and sarcasm instead.

What is most worrying is that the New Atheists seem to gain the most followers precisely among the most ambitious and intelligent young people—the people who will be actively shaping government policy in the years to come. Attracted by the intellectual rebelliousness of the movement, young people fall for its insidious message: join us and you can be one of the smart people.

In the 1800s, Karl Marx and other thinkers systematized this anti-religious hostility. When the followers of Marx gained power in Russia, they were even more ruthless than the French revolutionaries in their suppression of religion. Similar horrors followed dogmatic Communism wherever it came to power.

But most of the English-speaking world was spared this excessive institutional atheism. The United States, in particular, has always zealously guarded the freedom of anyone to practice any religion that does not seriously interfere with public order.

That’s why we’re so surprised and baffled by what we call the New Atheism. For the first time in our relatively tranquil history, we’re facing a determined attempt not just to keep organized religion out of government (which most religious Americans agree is a good idea), but to suppress religion completely.

What we call the “New Atheism” is a bit different than its predecessor. It’s more aggressive, and it has more power. The leaders of the sect are well placed in the academic world, and they have a strong determination to mold government policy.

And you wouldn’t like the government if the New Atheists molded its policy. Richard Dawkins has asserted that teaching your religion to your child is a form of child abuse and should be criminalized. Other New Atheists have argued that churches should have to post a sign reading “for entertainment purposes only,” since after all they’re no less a fraud than telephone psychics.

The New Atheists see religion as a disease to be exterminated. Their dream, in short, is not a government neutral to religion, but a government actively hostile to religion. The evangelical atheists assume that religion must inevitably breed mindless fanaticism. Countering that image means not just answering the atheists’ arguments against God, but also correcting their false impressions of religion.

I believe the best "counter" is to call those who promote these ideals on who they truly are. There you have it.



[edit on 1-8-2009 by infolurker]

reply to post by moocowman


Here I say it once again: religions and those who follow them are not authorities on God. Just because someone does something in the name of God doesn't mean He was behind it. If something someone does is wrong in His eyes, they will be held accountable for it. If its not, then they won't be. I really don't care either way, as I am not the one passing divine judgement or responsible for said actions of someone.

reply to post by moocowman

Obviously it wasn't clear what was meant by "giving his life to the lord" you have to appreciate that , you may write like Ted Haggard talks and I may not necessarily be fully conversant in xtian speakology

hey ya know what? you just might be right mocoman. i was just thinking,
about what a total injustice it is to humanity. having so many innocent
lives, w/ so much potential snuffed out because they live in the wrong part
of the world. then someone like you is allowed to flourish.
NAH!




[edit on 1-8-2009 by randyvs]

If there is one thing i have learnt in my life it is that..
We humans create everything from love to hate, so i don't blame g-d
for anything..
That been said..
I believe there is a source..and in that source there is everything.
I try and not let the details cloud my judgment.
If you want to bring good things into your life then be a peacemaker..
but that is just my opinion..but i think it is a good one.

Good post..made me think deeply.