Hacker loses extradition appeal

This whole debacle is a real knicker wrencher... pursuing and parading around someone like Gary as the biggest hacker in American history is a real embarrassment and the IT guys at NASA etc must be watching this through gaps in their fingers.

Personally I believe that Gary should have been convicted and sentenced in the UK, I can't envisage for one second if say France's military systems were hacked by a US citizen that the US Government would be quick to hand them over to the French - and quite right too.

Each country needs to keep their own house in order and the laws of that country should be implemented and that should be that.

I really hope that Gary is mentally strong enough to make this into the ridiculous ciscus show that it threatens to become, that is if the trial isn't held behind closed doors. And if they do do this then that will only fan the conspiracy flames even higher.

I bet if the clock could be turned back they would have kicked his ass for what he did and then kick their own asses for allowing it to happen.

Truly embarrassing and I hope that some sense kicks in soon for all parties involved

Berth

Originally posted by h3akalee
Lot's of guy's/girl's sticking up for him that's noble.

But what he did was wrong that's what im getting at.

He must have realised what he was letting himself in for if he was found out. Pretty foolish act messing with the American government that's the point i am making.

Play with fire you will get burned.

Take care.

Regards
Lee

I do agree that he was wrong but the computers in question weren't password protected so sooner or later didn't they expect someone to get into them? Doesn't make what he did right but he can easily go on trial in Britain and serve his sentence. Why does he have to be extradited? If it was the other way around, an American citizen would receive their trial in the USA.

I can't believe the Americans are making such a big deal about extraditing him - do they not believe he'd get what they deem a fair sentence, in Britain? Maybe that's why they don't allow extradition of their own citizens? On the other hand, maybe he learned a little too much and they want to be sure it never becomes public? Seems an awful big deal being made about it.

Edit to add. Just had another thought - maybe he really is such a fantastic genius that they want him over there to actually work for them.

[edit on 31-7-2009 by Maya00a]

Edit again to say I just watched 1st video on page 1 - Windows? Really? I don't know why that surprises me but I just assumed that the US military and NASA would have their own OS and not rely on Windows. Wow, I'm really surprised about that.

[edit on 31-7-2009 by Maya00a]

reply to post by Kaifan


You're on the money, Kaifan.

5000? where did they got that number! the cost of the backup cd's? i guess they use $200 dvds and have to hire an external consultant to come and format and then restore from cds the windoze on their machines

Check out the first video on p.1 from 12:00.

$5,000 = trumped up charges

period

reply to post by pause4thought


Why didn't you use his bloody name.Helps in search and can stop duplicate threads.

reply to post by gallifreyan medic


I presume you tried to post a new thread & inadvertently posted a duplicate. You're not allowed to pick & choose the name of a thread - you have to use the title of the original article.

Anyway, no worries. What's your angle on the news?

reply to post by pause4thought


Its a joke.

There is no way he should be extradited with his mental condition/state.
Human rights have into come into play big time with this,especially with only 28 days for it being reviewed.
He should be taken into hiding and have things set in motion for taking it to the court for human rights.

reply to post by gallifreyan medic


I'm afraid the European Court of Human Right already refused him. (Or should I say 'let him down'?)

Mr McKinnon has already appealed unsuccessfully to the House of Lords and the European Court of Human Rights and his latest judicial reviews in the High Court are likely to be his last chance.

(Source: OP article)

I think what's needed is a public outcry. There's very little left. It seems the courts have left him clutching at straws.

What do you think of the MPs who promised to back him, then pulled out at the last minute when it came to a vote in parliament?!

Everyone with a sense of justice ought to read this article:

Labour MP resigns over colleagues' hypocricy

reply to post by pause4thought


I missed that then.

Remember it being said about but didn't know it had been done and refused.
Someone there got a loose sphincter and bottled it when they had a word in there shell like?

No offence but not going to bother answering about those #e arse MPs.

I thought in criminal law there needed to be both mens rea and actus reus, meaning guilty mind and guilty act.

We know he did do it, but what were his intentions? Were they guilty in the terms of morality? That's tough to answer as he claims it was for the good of humanity that he did what he did, but then he would have also known it is illegal to do what he did. This case could go on for some time I think.

My other point was with regards to a comment someone made about going into someone's house because the doors were unlocked is as bad as browsing open computers. That may be the case, but then maybe this should be more similar to trespassing instead of theft. I never though trespassing would land you an jail.

One more thing, if a British citizen murdered an American citizen in the UK would they also be extradited? Would they have to face the US court system? If that's the case, then would it also mean if the American happened to be from Texas that the British citizen would not only be extradited and tried in the US, but would it be in Texas and facing the death penalty? Of course not!

You're right if you think that sounds stupid, but that's how this case sounds to me so why is he not being tried in the UK? It's because this hurt the American ego. I wonder if extradited he will be escorted by British Police or Government or will the CIA will be waiting at the airport, ready with a plane?

Thanks for reading.

Originally posted by Laurauk
Going by, how far the American authorities have pursude this, and how mch they have continued to ask for his extrdition from the UK, make me believe hat he has not made this up.

Oh letme see the american authoritis want to get him over to the US for nothing right?

Nah they just want to get him over there so he can secure NASA's computers for them.

Originally posted by Kaifan
If you leave your house without lock on the door and i can come in and steal all your stuff, it is stealing, no matter what.

Yeah it's still stealing, but it's not breaking & entering and in the computer world that is what he is being charged with.

Originally posted by pause4thought
OK, he did something wrong. He could have had a low-key trial in the UK & had his wrists slapped.

I might be wrong about this but I thought I read somewhere at the very start of all this that he did face charges in the UK and the case was dismissed or he got a good behavior bond of something along those lines. Then months later the US filled charges against him. Does any of this ring a bell for anyone? I can't find any articles about it so I may be thinking of another case...

Originally posted by mr-lizard
reply to post by h3akalee

 

You seem to misunderstand my arguement. If he IS to be tried, then he should be tried in the UK were he will recieve a fair trial, as opposed to tasting American justice which is draconian and unfair to his illness.

That's my point.

--

The Uk should not bow to the yanks. We have soliders refusing to fight now because the Yanks have warped all that is decent and good about the Uk, and now our government is bending over again to them in this case over the trial of a hacker.

The USA is not our boss, we should not be afraid of America, yet our spineless leaders are taking it up the jacksy from our loud-mouth cousins.


[edit on 31-7-2009 by mr-lizard]

I don't think this involves bending over at all...

It is not about a fair trial. The UK has no real incentive to keep him over there if the U.S wants him. Our own leaders want this guy slammed for messing with the big boys, and thats what will happen.

Going into such networks should have flipped a light that he was going to be getting in BIG trouble if caught. He did get caught.

The crime was committed in your country, to another country.

If I made my own country with a law that says "I CAN DO ANYTHING I WANT", and continued trying to steal secret information from other countries, you think they are going to care what the laws are in my country? Nope.

reply to post by FritosBBQTwist


Gary stole nothing. He simply looked around for UFO-related data and eventually managed to peek at half a (highly pixelated) photograph, which he didn't even manage to see properly - never mind download - as he was on a primitive dial-up connection. He was a run-of-the-mill amateur snooper. His naivety when caught meant the wolves recognized an easy target. They ripped into him by blowing the whole incident way out of proportion. All they've achieved is to publicize worldwide the woeful security of US military/NASA IT systems. It gets more farcical by the day.

The guy has been punished more than enough in terms of the pressure and stress brought to bear over the last seven years or so. But the vultures are now circling: "Let's tear the guy's life to shreds & make him a public spectacle". The madness has gone way too far. Is there any moral spine left in the American PTB? Any?

How about this - a video of Gary's mother making a televised appeal to President Obama today:

Latest article + video

That's one articulate lady.

they really eats a large amount of ball.....

Lets hope there is some kind of appeal and they let him stay in the UK to do his time otherwise this could be the last we ever see of Garry

The Disclosure movment has lost another player to TPTB.....

reply to post by pause4thought


Sorry, but if you side with breaking the law and not asking for consequences only because they didn't harm anyone or steal anything physical, then you are no better than the government who wants you recorded on every single thing, the cops that can search you without warrant, and etc.

The examples I listed are only different in the sense that these EFFECT you.

What the hell is the point of a law if we get to pick and choose who gets to break what?

I do not fight for the people just because they are people, and I do not fight the government just because they are the government. Get some better excuses people.

reply to post by FritosBBQTwist


I'm afraid you really have misunderstood the premise that I and many others have been emphasizing repeatedly. No-one is making excuses: even Gary admits he broke the law. The issue is overwhelmingly one of proportionality. What this guy has gone through for 7 years of his young life is more than enough punishment for his antics. Continually ramming the prospect of him spending the rest of his life in prison down his throat like this, and fighting for his extradition as if he were some evil monster is preposterous.

It's an attempt at making an example to create fear. It is merciless, unwarranted and unjust.

Most people who have taken time to look into his case carefully and with an open mind are appalled. The actions of the US authorities in this matter amount to vicious scapegoating.

It is the IT departments that left so many military/NASA computers without passwords that should have taken the fall. Not a kid with dubious hobby. Who suffers from Asberger's.

The actions of the US authorities are attracting ever more severe disdain. The longer this goes on, the more dishonor it brings on the US.

Enough is enough.

I just noticed reading the news article that he is going to be extradited under the "2003 Extradition Treaty". Funny, how all 7 charges date between 2001 & 2002 in the source posted above yet he's being extradited under a 2003 treaty. I'm not an expert in the law, but shouldn't the treaty not apply to this case since the charges happened before the treaty was created?

I really don't like the slyness in this case. They find out in 2002, extradition treaty gets passed in 2003, wait 2 years for news to fade out.... 2005 OMG The most amazing hack in american history!!!!!! You're coming to the US bud...

I think it's very unfair on Gary, he should be tried in the UK courts and not sent to the US to face the rest of his life in jail. They didn't even have passwords ffs!

Here is a link to a copy of the extradition treaty if anyone is interested. Link (note: pdf file)

reply to post by h3akalee


To be frank I think that was an idiotic statement you made and i do not know why people are putting stars all over it. If you watched the several interviews Gary did he had no intention of harming anything or anyone, he was trying to find proof that the United States is hiding technology that could save lives. He was thinking of the elderly freezing to death in their homes and the 1 billion who are starving to death in the world. He was initially told that he would get under a year in jail to community service, then it turned into 70 years. Sometimes the law needs to be broken to benefit the rest of mankind, what gary did was morally right and he should not be put in prison for any length of time, the no minds that run the U.S. should be.

reply to post by TheSam



You hit the nail on the head. Gary's mother refers to this in her statement on video.

The whole process stinks. What does America stand for these days? Draconian indictments and backdated legislation to catch inquisitive young computer geeks?

Home of the brave, and land of the free...

I suspect many an average American sees through this sham, though. It's the so-called "elite" who seem to have lost touch with all decency.

Anyone know if anyone with power/influence in the States is crying foul play?





[edit on 31/7/09 by pause4thought]

reply to post by Laurauk

Those judges should hang thier heads in shame.

I wouldn't mind betting that there's a whole closet of shame those judges should hang their heads for, and US snoopers have photographs of all of it. Gives us Gary or we'll give these photos of you and the boy to the police sort of thing.

reply to post by moocowman


Holy cow moocow, I thought I had a dim view of what's going on here. Either I'm naive in thinking you can still appeal to some semblance of justice from the PTB or perhaps there are still some in high places who are prepared to go against the flow on a matter of principle.

We know there's one, at least:

A man with moral fibre. Awesome.