Hitler 'could have won WWII'

Reading this thread, it's creepy how many fanbois Hitler has on here

Hitler believed his own racial propaganda, he believed the "genetically inferior" Russians could never beat his Aryan Wehrmacht...

But in the end, they crushed Germany utterly... oops.

Despite the fact that that lunatic Stalin killed most of his officer corps before the war even started.

I can't find a link anywhere, but there was a historian that said the Germans and more importantly Hitler would have lost even if the Americans had not entered the war. I remember the evidence he laid to to support his claim was quite compelling.

I'm pretty sure it had something to do with dwindling supplies, which ultimately rendered the German's impending technological developments and realisation impossible to procure.

Although an interesting debate, history is full of many ifs and maybes. I'll/We will never know I guess. Next step is to jump on my realm dimension jumping ship thing and find out what's going on in the alternate reality's that lost. [/semi joke]

The big question for me has also been, IF Pearl Harbor was not attacked and America sat by and watched for longer and Britain and Russia ultimately fell. How would the U.S.A. have fared? Maybe Pearl Harbor was even more of a turning point than history noted..?



Edit: I'll keep looking for the historians writings I mentioned to begin with.




[edit on 30/7/09 by Sed Non Credo]

Originally posted by Bearack
reply to post by john124

 

When Hitler gave up on the battle of Britain and redirected his attention to Russia is where he lost the war. He couldn't beat the brits in the air, but if had continued with his invasion force, Britain could have done nothing to stop it.

I'm truly glad he gave up his ambition for the island. That is what saved the rest of the world.

Interesting view, could he have ever got the invasion force across that short trip from France to England without the destruction of the Royal Navy and Airforce though?

Genuine question, I've never been the greatest of historians.

reply to post by Blue_Jay33


That's interesting. I know that Hilter was an archetype of the antichrist and he does kind of fit one of the kings described in Daniel and Revelations. However I never thought that America or Britain for that matter could fit as the last beast empire.

I always thought that role would be for the EU and moreover a muslim EU, since the prophecies concerning the imam mahdi dovetail nicely with the antichrist and since it is clear that the beast kingdom must come from the ruins of the Roman empire.

However the election of Obama changes all that. The man is almost already worshiped, he is considered a muslim in the middle east and has already fooled a plurality of gullible US citizens. If he starts exhibiting supernatural powers or if someone else does on his behalf, then I will start to worry.

Given that Obama is already enacting a nazi like eugenics program within his health care bill, we may be well on our way to armageddon.
www.abovetopsecret.com...

The facts we aren't often told about the war, 600,000 civilians were killed in the bombing of dresden. The World )ewry declared holy war on germany in 1934. 2million elderly women and children were raped for weeks at a time by the allies after the war was over. over 1million germans starved to death because the americans and soviets wanted them to suffer. millions more in POW camps were murdered. The members of waffen SS were brutalised until they confesed then they were often murdered. The germans resisted the allies for 3 years after losing, for every ally killed they would kill 10's of german civilian. If you were suspected of being a rebel, you would be shot on the spot. If you killed 1 soviet person, 200 germans would be killed. Absolutely atrocious. A little strange that an even labelled as "fact" can lead to a lengthy prison sentance if you question it.

Where do you get your information?
Dresden's entire population was possibly about 650,000 due to refugees congregating there. The death toll was possibly in the 35,000 range. Still a lot of people, but nothing like what you're claiming. I don't condone the firebombing, by the way.

You say that 2million elderly women and children were raped by the allies for weeks, but don't give any source of this information. I think this might be more well known if it were true.

The SS were brutalized? Wow. No retribution likely for their brutalization of anyone who crossed their path?

Do you know how many Russians were killed - both civilian and military - in WWII? Over 20,000,000.

The Russians and the Americans wanted the Germans to starve? Really?

I cannot begin to think where the quoted information came from. Probably got a pamphlet from a tattooed guy with very short blond hair in Idaho. Neo-nazi tosh at its finest.

Oh, well.

As for the battle of Britain my understanding was the 'few' were able to anticipate the German raids by using radar (brand new invention back then) and give the impression that there were far more fighters than there actually were. Had the Germans pressed on with the bombing of airfields, the RAF would have been decimated. However, the focus changed to cities and war production/infrastructure. This slowed the attrition of RAF fighters.

reply to post by SevenThunders


Wow, it doesnt get much better than you...

However the election of Obama changes all that.

Since you are so in tune with God and his will, you can now also dictate what changes the prophecies and the percieved workings of the biblical God. Should we all just bow down to you and worship you now, or shall we wait for someone to confirm your visions? Maybe we can join your "Christian" church and all believe like you. Hell, we might as well just off ourselves and our children this very minute since we know the end is NIGH and the tribulation is going to reign hell down upon us!

I mean who wants to go through that, right?

Last time, Obama "seized" power... This time he was "elected."

So which is it?

Im not a fan of Obama either, but you insinuation that he is somehow the anti-christ and will usher in the end of the world is 3 degrees from insane, and you need a serious reality check.

The last thing that I can say, and probably the only relevant thing here is:

Dude, you need to stay off the peace pipe.

reply to post by open_eyeballs


As I have said I do not necessarily believe that Obama is the ac. I reserve judgment for that. He's yet to fulfill a number of key prophecies and he still appears "like a lamb", a weak willed smarmy, leftist idealist do-gooder.

What is changing in my perceptions is due to his actions. Increasingly he is implementing a totalitarian society, combining the worst of Stalinism and Naziism. The health care bill offers an insight into this, since total government control and the planned death of undesirables are some of it's key features.

There are other signs regarding 666 and such that make it possible for Obama to be the ac. This is nonsense to you because you reject the Bible, even when it is being fulfilled in front of you. Israel is reborn, thanks to Hitler, an antichrist archetype, and WWIII may be launched by the current ac candidate. These things have been prophesied to happen in precise detail by the ancient prophets of the Bible. Again this will be ignored by you and those who think like you, because of the implications for your soul. These developments, however, are a cause for concern for all men.

reply to post by SevenThunders

This is nonsense to you because you reject the Bible

When did I say that? Why is it that you think you know what I reject? God complex? I think so.

I believe there are many many valuable lessons all throughout the Bible. I don't reject it at all.

What I do reject is that stubborn people such as yourself come along every generation and believe they have the answers and the information that determines what the literal meaning of the Bible actually is, and they know when the "end times" actually are. These people such as yourself have been claiming the end is nigh for decades. For ages. For millenia. Your thinking is nothing new. It is old and outdated, and is a fear mongering tactic used by the church since before Jesus Christ. You are the minority, and good reason for it. Thank god.

But, as you can tell, what I do reject is your synopsis that the end is nigh....

Especially when there is NO conclusive evidence pointing this out in reference to biblical scripture. And especially when theologians whom have studied this stuff for years reject that we are living in end times notion entirely. It is fringe, and their is a resurgence in it because of the recent wars, and now nutjobs are trying to use the Obama election as more bogus evidence.

It is true, I dont believe the Bible even talks literally about the end times. More than likely that whole episode of the Bible is talking about the fall of the Roman empire, and the freedom the jews will have once the Romans are gone. And that is exactly what happened. Therefore the "prophecy" has already been fullfilled.

Your conjectures are hogwash. If you think not go argue with the catholic church and the the Christian/ Judeo universities that study the Bible year round that have nothing to say about your small minded belief.


[edit on 30-7-2009 by open_eyeballs]

If Germany had not attacked Russia, the US Would never had entered the war. It wasn't until he attacked the Russians that US Military leaders assured the Government that Hitler would loose anyways, and that by joining the war now we would come out as the strongest force.

It is said that Stalin, who trusted no body but himself, trusted Hitler.. had they been allies in the war, I doubt anything could have stopped them.

reply to post by Rockpuck


Ya, it would have taken a lot more of them A-bombs, thats for sure.

But America joined because of the attack on Pearl Harbor, supposedly (I think we would have gotten involved anyway). It was our Navy that won the war, in my opinion. If we hadnt defeated Japans at sea, it would have been hell here on the west coast, and we would not have been able to deploy all the ground troops we did to fight off the Nazis.

We owe alot to that generation...

Okay.....back to World War II.

I often like thinking about this and i think it's quite possible that Germany could have won.

But as others have already mentioned, invading the Soviet Union and declaring war upon the United States were big mistakes. The invasion of the Soviet Union maybe not so big a mistake, if German forces hadn't been distracted by the Balkans campaign and if Hitler hadn't interfered in military affairs.

Also perhaps if Japan had attacked the Soviet Union from the East, rather than sign a neutrality pact, then it probably would have made life even more difficult for the Russians.

As for Germany declaring war upon the United States this was major folly. Even though Germany was allied with Japan, their was nothing stating he had to join the war against the USA or that the USA would have declared war upon Germany anyway.

Overall interesting stuff, but we'll never know for sure.

reply to post by jd140

Hitler was an evil genius.

I think "genius" is over doing it a little.

He did have a decent plan at first though. I guess for someone wishing to rule the world, or at least europe anyway.

He took the first countries so easily through blitzkrieg (sp?) he though the would be able to do the same throughout. One of is major problems was he did not have air superiority. If his rocket program would have really taken off he might have been able to hold the Brits back a while longer...

Of course, as others have mentioned attacking Russia was the biggest debaucle he could have gotten himself into. i still dont get why he tried during the coldest months...Doesnt make sense to me...

reply to post by Kram09

Also perhaps if Japan had attacked the Soviet Union from the East

I dont think this was as option. Traveling thousands of miles to get to the kremlin? Through the frigid landscapes of east Russia or all the way through enemy territory...China? Your talking thousands of miles. Could you imagine the supply logistics that would have to be tackled. They would have been left out to dry...

No beachfront able to be taken on the east or west coast. It would have been better for Hitler to align himself somehow with the Russians or offer some treaty. besides being the fool he was in the first place, he was utterly foolish to attack Russia the way he did.

I think it was Heimlers idea anyway, no? I cant recall right now...

Hitler never stood a chance of winning the war. He was up against the Russians all the way and those people were harder when it came down to it. I watched a doc and this ex German soldier said they never stood a chance because the Russians were part of the soil, they lived the land while the German was more civilised and not willing to make the ultimate sacrifice. Sure the Germans won some countries but who did they beat? The French (not that difficult as proved by Prussia and the Kaiser), Belgium, Holland, Yugoslavia, Czech, Denmark, Poland................ now these are not exactly hard core military industrial entities right? Soon as he messed with the Russians Hitler met with something that he did not have an answer to, a bigger population with massively bigger industrial production and raw materials and unlimited oil, oh and a population that was part of the soil. Germany never had a chance and if the USA and Great Britain hadn't jumped in at the last moment to stop the Soviet advance one can only imagine what the victors would have done to the whole of defeated Germany and Austria.

reply to post by xmotex


Adolph Hitler was nothing more than a pawn being used by the powers of people behind throwns, the people who truly rule the world, the Seven World Bankers.

He was nothing more than a tool, a weapon, and a means to an end of what is still in action to this day. The only difference between Hitler and any King, Queen, or President today is, who is controlling the leash, and who are the hidden masters.

For you as well as any other silly person here who want to think it, while Hitler may have lost, the war itself continued under a different guise, with different masters, and the only true enemy is the people of the current regime or republic in power.

The Nazi's had backup programs and varying agendas in case the war was lost, and they continue to this day under the guise of peace being fought for by different men and women in control of the new hyrda of the Fourth Reich.

The problem is that it is right in front of the eyes of everyone and they cannot see it for it is designed to be the ultimate new rise to power.

So, which will you be a slave, or a master?

reply to post by open_eyeballs


I didn't mean Japan try to aim for Moscow. I just meant to put pressure on the Russians.

When the Japanese signed a neutrality pact with Russia, it allowed the Russian Siberian divisions to be transported from the west.

Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler
As I look around Amerika today...
It sure appears to me Hitler won the war.

No Hitler was a puppet... put in place by Masonic like orders

Prescott Bush and the Rockefellers with Standard Oil and Union Bank funded the NAZi's into power. That is now history and sanctions were made for 'trading with the enemy'

The Bush and Rockefeller Dynasty's still rule the roost today, Standard Oil has been replaced by Exxon, who recorded record quarter profits during the first year of the Iraqi "war" while we shelled out willingly at the pumps, and that price has never dropped since.

Union Bank replaced by Federal Reserve who just last fiscal year cannot account for 9 TRILLION dollars over an eight month period

Federal Reserve can't account for $9 trillion in off-balance sheet transactions.

I do after all live in a nation that some how, some way, managed to end up with something called a Homeland Security Department?

We had Homeland Security in Germany too... Schutzstaffel German for "Protective Echelon" Most know it as the SS...

Before DHS was created... on Sept 10, 2001 Rumsfeld announced 2 TRILLION was missing from the Pentagon budget and a further 25% of Defense spending was unaccounted for. He declared 'war' on this spending

We all know what happened the next day. Bush asked for MORE billions to bomb Iraq into the stone age and we said okay... Forgot all about the missing trillion, Forgot all about the Enron scandel, which records were lost when WTC 7 collapsed...

9/10/2001: Rumsfeld says $2.3 TRILLION Missing from Pentagon



More missing money Fiscal Year 2006
McKinney Grills Rumsfeld

Way to go Adolf way to go, way to go Adolf way to go.

The Nazi Scientists of America

Operation paper clip brought over 1000 NAZI scientists and other key people to the US. People who had but a few days earlier worked to wipe out the US and our way of life are now made citizens and given jobs and houses...

The panel was supposed to draw the line between scientists who had joined the Nazi party to avoid persecution and ones who truly believed in it, but the ugly truth was that much Third Reich research had itself been a war crime. The Dora concentration camp had supplied slave labor for the Nordhausen missile works, where prisoners had been fed a single piece of bread a day and literally worked to death by the thousands. Aviation doctors had suffocated gypsies in pressure chambers and force-fed Jews nothing but seawater for weeks to determine what pilots could withstand.

A tug of war began between two sides in the U.S. government—one angling to import German scientists and one readying to try some of the same men at Nuremberg. In the end the Paperclip panel ignored or cleaned up the backgrounds of several scientists they believed too valuable to send to prison. One historian estimates that as many as 80 percent of the 765 scientists imported between 1945 and 1955 were Nazi party or SS members. Three later fled or were deported under suspicion of war crimes, including Arthur Rudolph, who was instrumental in developing the rockets that powered the Apollo missions.

American Heritage Magazine

Also this...

But Paperclip, which continued until as late as 1973, left behind another, darker legacy. The program’s architects were sometimes willing to build on the results of often deadly Nazi research on captive human subjects. Working with Paperclip scientists, researchers hoping to develop a truth serum at the Edgewood Arsenal, in Maryland, tested psychoactive drugs on almost 7,000 unwitting American soldiers between 1955 and 1975. Those experiments, and Paperclip itself, were among the first manifestations of what became a guiding principle of the Cold War, that the ends sometimes justified the means.

The author of the story ends with this comment

Intelligence and government officials faced a delicate moral quandary in 1945—whether it was worth it to give American homes to men who had invented weapons to kill American soldiers, men who in some cases subscribed to beliefs that hundreds of thousands Americans had died to eradicate. In the end they decided it was, if these men could help the United States defeat the Soviets.

—Christine Gibson is a former editor at American Heritage magazine.

Seems the Third Reich merely change location... and "We the people..." paid for it because we were led to believe we need to fear the Russians


"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." - Benjamin Franklin, Historical Review of Pennsylvania, 1759

[edit on 30-7-2009 by zorgon]

reply to post by zorgon


This is a correct assertion to how Hitler got into power.

The secret societies are the men who put anyone in the positions of power.

No man can enter a political position of power without first serving his true master.

They hold the war chest, the files for blackmail, and the knowledge of how to destroy those they put into power first, and then they put on a Punch and Judy puppet show for the masses.

This was why John F Kennendy was assassinated, he knew how to defeat the Mason's, because there were too many of them within the Mafia at the time, and both orgniazations make doubly sure if they cannot destroy the people they put into power by politics, money, or blackmail, they have a magic bullet ready in the patsy's gun and the patsy is just a willing man who will die for the cause.

Originally posted by CapsFan8
It is funny how his generals so brilliantly planned the first year of the war, and then he goes and interferes and makes all the military decisions (the wrong ones). He didn't plan for a long war and turns around and DOW's Russia and the US in the same year. They started out with a huge lead in technology and were a year away from a nuke at the end, and likely would have it in 45 if he didn't take on the entire world.

We were lucky he was such a fool.

Yea it's like we planted hitler in Germany just to ruin their brilliant plan..

We must not forget....the germans were REAL smart......Probably more so than us even though I hate to say it. They were ahead of us in the way of thinking and looking at things......

If not for hitler it could have been a different outcome for sure.

Remember a lot of our acomplishments after the war came from Germans.......

In theory with the resources at Hitler's disposal he should have walked it,however,his inability or unwillingness to listen to his Generals,arguably the greatest collection of military theorists/tacticians on the planet at the time,led to the most horrendous blunders imaginable.Taking the Battle of Britain as a "starting point"and ignoring the general concensus that invasion of Britain would have been a formality had the Luftwaffe succeded
in neutralising the RAF,really,if Hitlers regime had not been one commited to eradication of the Jews,Gypsies,homosexuals,mentally ill people etc,He may well have been in a position to "cut a deal"with Britain enabling him to advance into the Soviet Union virtually with no international condemnation(given Churchills views on communism), however,the frequency with which these astronomical blunders occured makes me think that maybe there was more to this than is evident,were any of the top ranking members of the Nazi regime allied"plants"? particularly Himmler(who conveniently "commited suicide"on his capture by the allies)
and the manner of Hess's entry into Britain,I don't suppose the full story shall ever emerge there,the second world war certainly benefitted the US to a tremendous degree,how much of it was "orchestrated?
In short I cannot believe that with the military brains,technology and industrial output available to the Nazi's that the manner of their losing the war can be satisfactorily explained purely by the Nazi party hierarchy's incompetence(unless of course they were"told" to!)