Unveiled! Hawaii's 1961 long-form birth certificates

Originally posted by Unit541
Well, you're right. Because after I see a legit birth certificate, then I want to know........

After all that, then we need to proceed on the grounds that he is not a natural born citizen. All the historical documents, Congressional statements and court rulings give only 2 possible definitions of natural born citizen.

Either both parents must be a U.S. citizen or just the father must be a U.S. citizen. In both cases, Obama does not meet the requirements so he is not eligible to be President.

Keep up the pressure and the truth will come out eventually.

So, I'm curious.

Are all of you birthers trying to make the argument that the president's mother wasn't an American? because, I hate to break it to you guys, but that's all it takes to be a natural-born citizen of the United States.

Originally posted by TheWalkingFox
Are all of you birthers trying to make the argument that the president's mother wasn't an American?

I don't think you are reading correctly because nobody said such a thing.

because, I hate to break it to you guys, but that's all it takes to be a natural-born citizen of the United States.

Well if you say so I guess it must be true.
I hate to break it to you but you are wrong. See my previous post.

Originally posted by Unit541
Then I want to know how, if he was born in Hawaii on August 4th, 1961, while his mother was in Seattle.

Kegels. Duh. Kid shot out of there like a ballistic missile.

Seriously, that's your argument? She was in Seattle when he was born? Then... Wouldn't that mean he was born in Seattle?

reply to post by drwizardphd

That's because those "Certificates of Live Birth" are from before 2001, when Hawaii went paperless.

I thought the same thing, Drwizard, until I read th is report from the Honolulu Advertiser, which quotes Dr. Fukino:

"We don't destroy vital records," Health Department spokeswoman Janice Okubo said. "That's our whole job, to maintain and retain vital records."

She goes on to say:

"I, Dr. Chiyome Fukino, director of the Hawai'i State Department of Health, have seen the original vital records maintained on file by the Hawai'i State Department of Health verifying Barack Hussein Obama was born in Hawai'i and is a natural-born American citizen,"

.......and no, I don't think Dr. Fukino is lying. Like you, I believed that when they went paperless, the only records available were the electronic ones as we've seen of President Obama's COLB. According to Dr. Fukino, the original is still archived, and she has seen it, and it substantiates that President Obama was born in Hawaii.

So why, pray tell, would you or anyone guess, the reason for the electronic COLB being shown as the original, if the original exists?

I wonder sometimes if this isn't akin to the circumstances surrounding Watergate in the sense of the coverup being worse than the data being covered up. Curious.

Originally posted by Unit541
reply to post by Helmkat

 

Then, I'm still wondering why a village in Kenya is so convinced he was born right there, that they're erecting a monument at the site of (what they think is) his birth.

You are referring to this story and ATS thread below…from Novemebr 2008

Originally posted by questioningall

Call to Kenyan Ambassador says - Monument being built spot where Obama was born!

my.wrif.com

It is a radio program with a Mike in the morning - WRIF Radio.

The disc jockey's talk to the Ambassador of Kenya - about Kenya and then at 12:30 into it, it when the Ambassador says Obama's birth spot is already a huge attraction in Kenya. The government may put up a marker to highlight it.

(visit the link for the full news article)
[edit on 21-11-2008 by questioningall]

Which I debunked with these two posts

Originally posted by maybereal11
How dumb is this thread?

LISTEN to it. The ambassador answers the idiotic question by stating that his "Paternal Grandmother is still Alive" and then when the idiot radio hosts keep asking the about Obama being born there he responds that OBAMA's FATHER also named "Barak Obama" was born there, ....the ambassador goes as far as saying "Senior" to try to help these guys out.

At NO TIME does the Ambassodor say Pres. Elect Obama was born in Kenya. He does try to correct these guys twice with more courtessy than these two dufuses deserved.

The first clue to these radio hosts intelligence was when they were making farting noises while waiting to be connected. GEEZ. REALLY! Some of the threads on ATS are just dumb.

So much for better discussions once the election concluded.

Originally posted by maybereal11
To further the context...When the ambassador says Obama "was an economist" that worked with the Kenyan Government...HE IS TALKING ABOUT PRES. ELECT OBAMA's FATHER

Barack Hussein Obama (1936–1982) was a Kenyan senior governmental economist.

FYI as BenevelontHeretic has clearly shown this is the same confusion that has lead to the Obama's Grandmother stating that he was born in Kenya BS.

See this post..
www.abovetopsecret.com...

You know what is strange? YOU posted on that thread too…right beside my posts.

SO it is strange to see you here PRETENDING you believe this BS when you were present when it was debunked.


[edit on 29-7-2009 by maybereal11]

One funny fact is Obummers 1/2 sister has a COLB exactly like his....
Except she was born in Indonesia.
So why would she have a BC from Hawaii?

reply to post by WhatTheory


Hate to break it to you, but you're lying. But you knew that already, didn't you?

Might I suggest paying a visit to the State Department's website?

Even if all your paranoid fantasies were true, and Mr. Obama had been born outside of the US, out of wedlock, to an American citizen and an alien, all she would need to do is send the state department a bit of paperwork proving that SHE was a US citizen, and that she had lived in the US for at least one continuous year of her life.

If we consider her marriage to Obama Sr. to be valid (Which the State of Hawai'i did), then it's much simpler - She doesn't even need to have filed any paperwork, citizenship would be automatically granted, provided she had spent five years in the US, two of which must be after the age of 14.

This is of course ignoring the fact that you're having a paranoid fantasy where you imagine the entire state of Hawai'i, the Kennedy state department, the entire nation of Kenya, are ALL in some huge, impermeable conspiracy to see this guy as a US citizen, because magically all these hundreds of thousands of people who would be involved in such a plot knew that the kid from a questionable marriage between a Kenyan and a Kansan would become the 44th president of the United States of America. To say nothing of the time-travel needed.

Also it's important to note.. .there is no legal distinction between "U.S. Citizen" and "natural-born citizen". There's a difference between US citizen and Naturalized US Citizen, but there is simply no legal definition of "natural-born"

[edit on 29-7-2009 by TheWalkingFox]

reply to post by Dragonsbreaths


On the thread which talks about this, I posted that I spent several hours looking for Ms. Soetero-Ng's admission that she has a Hawaiian BC. I couldn't find it. Before parroting these ideas, I think we should all know what we're talking about, and have this BC at our disposal prior to making the claim.

God help me, I'm on the forefront of those on ATS wanting to see President Obama's BC, but this sort of statement is embarassing to me, as I get painted into the same small little box as YOU! Please, let's find evidence of Maya's Hawaiian BC before we pass this tidbit around.

Edit to add: And could you consider dropping the "Obummer", "obomanation" etc. etc. That is the reason why those on the other side want to use ad hominum phrases like "birther". It does us all a disservice to label each other.

[edit on 29/7/09 by argentus]

Originally posted by TheWalkingFox
Hate to break it to you, but you're lying. But you knew that already, didn't you?

Good lord!
Hate to break it to you but you are a disgrace by saying I am lying with no proof. Everything I said is factual and has been shown on the countless other threads specifically started for this discussion.

Might I suggest paying a visit to the State Department's website?

You might learn to comprehend what you read.

Also it's important to note.. .there is no legal distinction between "U.S. Citizen" and "natural-born citizen". There's a difference between US citizen and Naturalized US Citizen, but there is simply no legal definition of "natural-born"

"Born and naturalized" are means to attain citizenship, not "types" nor "classes" of citizen. The whole purpose of the 14th Amendment Section 1 was to ensure slaves would be guaranteed the right of citizenship. There was no mention of "natural born citizen" anywhere in the 14th.

"Born" has citizenship from birth. Natural born citizen, the highest level of allegiance, is a subset of "born". Born includes those who attain citizenship upon birth by statute.

"naturalized" are all those who attain citizenship after birth.

We nowhere recognize nor distinguish "born" nor "naturalized" anywhere in this country by any rights or privileges, therefore they cannot be "classes" of citizen.

We do however distinguish between "citizen" and "natural born citizen', with the latter being the only class of citizen qualified to hold the office of President.

Oh, and the only fantasy is you believing that you are correct.

reply to post by epete22


EXACTLY. Wrong font, it's just NOT a form from the 60's- coloring, the image, the sharpness of some areas and the obvious copy/ paste of others ( the green background vs the State of Hawaii's seal), the pixilation around the letters, the thing's as fake as you can get. I have mining stock that looks better! And it's twice as fake! (edited to add: This was done as a gag on someone... )I even included a notary seal on my crap!

Say- if you Obama BC people ever want a REAL good fake, get in touch with me... I can pull one off for like $10,000....

[edit on 29-7-2009 by wylekat]

reply to post by bigbert81


Berti is back! It's been six months since we heard from ya'. Obama must be getting nervous about this. He's sent his cyber team back out again. How ya' been Berti??

Originally posted by genius/idoit
Is African a race? shouldn't it be negroid?

Africa is not a race. It's a continent. Black, negro, or negroid would have been used.

Originally posted by WhatTheory

Originally posted by TheWalkingFox
Hate to break it to you, but you're lying. But you knew that already, didn't you?

Good lord!

Hate to break it to you but you are a disgrace by saying I am lying with no proof. Everything I said is factual and has been shown on the countless other threads specifically started for this discussion.

Actually since you are the one making the claims (That Barack Obama is not a US citizen by birth) it falls on you to provide conclusive proof of such. Instead, you are demanding that others prove you to be incorrect. it doesn't work that way. Instead what you have provided is an echo-chamber of those who would detest Barack Obama whether or not he is a citizen, simply because of his party, who themselves are dealing mostly in lies and poor information.

You are a liar. Normally I would place a few adjectives before "liar" but they'd just get filtered out. I'm sure your imagination is vivid enough to figure some out for yourself.

You might learn to comprehend what you read.

The fact I can easily call you a liar seems to indicate i'm quite capable of reading comprehension. I also note you haven't countered anything I informed you of. You're just taking offense at being called a liar, without ever countering any of the information proving your lie.

"Born and naturalized" are means to attain citizenship, not "types" nor "classes" of citizen. The whole purpose of the 14th Amendment Section 1 was to ensure slaves would be guaranteed the right of citizenship. There was no mention of "natural born citizen" anywhere in the 14th.

No, but it is mentioned as a condition for eligibility for president. Which is the whole damn point, isn't it? I'm not certain why in the world you're bringing the 14th amendment up.

We do however distinguish between "citizen" and "natural born citizen', with the latter being the only class of citizen qualified to hold the office of President.

No, we don't. As I said, we draw a distinction between naturalized citizens and born citizens - a naturalized citizen being a former citizen of another nation, who is not eligible for the presidency.

However there is no legal definition of the term "natural-born citizen." Ergo it would be assumed to cover all persons who were not citizens of another nation prior.

Now, if you coulf provide proof that either Stanley Anne Durahm wasn't a US citizen, or that she had gotten her son citizenship in another nation, then you might be onto something, instead of just on something.

Originally posted by TheWalkingFox
Actually since you are the one making the claims (That Barack Obama is not a US citizen by birth) it falls on you to provide conclusive proof of such.

It would be nice if you actually read posts because as I said in my previous post, all this information has been provided which proves my case in the numerous other threads specifically started for that topic. If you want to debate it, go to one of those threads. This thread is NOT about the 'citizen' argument which has been done in numerous other threads.

You are a liar.

Oh well, if you say it I guess it's true.
You are pathetic! Either prove I am lying or shut your flap trap.

Normally I would place a few adjectives before "liar" but they'd just get filtered out.

I am not surprised as that is the typical liberal M.O.
Name calling and demonizing is your specialty.

Now, if you coulf provide proof that either Stanley Anne Durahm wasn't a US citizen, or that she had gotten her son citizenship in another nation, then you might be onto something, instead of just on something.

Again, either both parents must be a citizen or just the father must be a citizen to be considered natural born.

Look, this topic has been debated until people turned blue in the face. Find one of those threads because I don't feel like repeating myself for a 100th time.

Originally posted by RichieScott1
I just noticed something at the bottom of Obama's certificate.

"ANY ALTERATIONS INVALIDATE THIS CERTIFICATE"

Well, the certificate number is clearly blacked out. Therefore, in theory, that form is now invalid, right?

The cert number was blacked out on the image of the certificate..not the certificate itself.

I really don't know why I come to these threads..people just want to believe in a conspiracy. I mean, if there was any proof otherwise, I'd be open to it. To me, the onus is on the accuser to prove he's not a citizen. Not the other way around.

reply to post by MysterE

I was born in 1960 and did not get my SSN issued to me 'til i was 9 or 10...was a while ago so not sure,but it was either '69 or '70 when i got mine and i did'nt have to go and get it, my mother did..go figure.

You know what would shut everyone up? A public display by the President of his original, long-copy, vault copy, Hawaii birth certificate.

That would shut the "birthers" up (and who came up with that stupid name?? :shk: )......if all is on the up and up, nothing left to holler about.

That would shut the defenders up......nothing more to defend.

Does the President have to do this? Of course not, but it would shut everyone the hell up.

And, that is what the majority of us want: people to shut up on both sides and the simple question answered in the only way that will shut them the hell up.

It wouldn't be all that hard, now, would it??

[edit on 7/29/2009 by skeptic1]

Originally posted by its bologna

The cert number was blacked out on the image of the certificate..not the certificate itself.

I really don't know why I come to these threads..people just want to believe in a conspiracy. I mean, if there was any proof otherwise, I'd be open to it. To me, the onus is on the accuser to prove he's not a citizen. Not the other way around.

Obviously, people keep responding to my post without reading my others. I understand that the certificate number was digitally blacked out. My problem with that is, why? If the certificate number was provided then someone in the records department could actually fact check the document.

I really don't know why you come to these threads either without reading everything.

Originally posted by drwizardphd
Perhaps you should pay attention to detail.

They are only allowed to release a certification that has the same information to a legitimate party, such as Obama or Congress etc.

Obama has already requested such a certificate, and he has put it online for all to see. That's really all there is to it, details et al.

Please pay attention to this quote found HERE
Hawai'i's Health Department confirmed yesterday that it has President Obama's original Aug. 4, 1961, birth certificate in storage
- - - and - - -
"We don't destroy vital records," Health Department spokeswoman Janice Okubo said. "That's our whole job, to maintain and retain vital records."
- - - and - - -
In 2001, Hawai'i's paper documents were reproduced in electronic format but "any paper data prior to that still exists," Health Department spokeswoman Okubo said.
Okubo would not say where Obama's original birth certificate is, but said "we have backups for all of our backups."


I am most surprised that I have not seen mentioned here yet that THERE IS A PROBLEM WITH THE REGISTRATION NUMBERS

at the bottom of that same URL I posted above, are copies of the twins birth cetificates and I will quote from a WND article also.
A close examination of the birth certificates issued by Kapi'olani to the Nordyke twins shows the registration number precedes the number given Obama, even though the future president was born a day earlier.

Susan Nordyke was born at 2:12 p.m. Hawaii time and was given No. 151 – 61 – 10637, which was filed with the Hawaii registrar Aug. 11, 1961.

Gretchen Nordyke followed at 2:17 p.m. and was given No. 151 – 61 – 10638, which was also filed with the Hawaii registrar Aug. 11, 1961.

According to a version of Obama's purported short-form certificate available from FactCheck.org, Obama was given a higher registration number than the Nordyke twins. The online image indicates the number is No. 151 – 1961 – 10641, even though he was born Aug. 4, 1961, the day before the twins, and his birth was registered with the Hawaii registrar three days earlier, Aug. 8, 1961.

One explanation for the out-of-order serial numbers might be that several serialized stacks of birth certificates were made available at different hospitals.

Another possibility is that Obama's number is not a genuine registration number created in 1961 but was issued when the short-form document was generated during the 2008 presidential campaign.

In the WND link, you can click on a line that shows BO's short form as examined by factcheck.org with the certificate # showing.

IMHO - this alone is enough to warrant that the Long Form Certificate be provided.

And yet again - why would anyone (especially a member of ATS) be told that they should settle for less than full disclosure when it is now a proven fact that the Long Form is available for the asking.

Shame on any member that would settle for being told by the government what to believe

reply to post by mmiichael


As usual friend Mike you have a true gift and knack at accessing a situation. Some excellent points and ones if people weren’t so busy bickering with one another it would really serve them well to note and contemplate.

It will boil down now to keeping the underclass marginalized and they are doing an excellent job at it by introducing one controversial division after another in rapid succession to keep the rabble bickering amongst itself.

You are correct few Americans understand what the constitution is and why it is so significant. It is a legal binding contract that no court can supersede unless you mistakenly enter into a separate contract with the court that negates the constitution. Most people do get tricked in to doing that. Perhaps even more important though than the constitution it self in what lies ahead on the agenda is the Treaty of Paris Article IV and V. That’s the escape clause!

Someone will have to emerge to pick up the pieces once the system is totally smashed, thrashed and dismantled while people are being conditioned and acclimated to a new way of life. Thankfully it is a job made all the more easy because most people really have no idea what the Constitution is or how it could really protect them and the concept of self sovereignty behind it.

Sadly the U.S. Military might not be able to be a deciding factor even if it wanted to. Who actually controls the most powerful technologies and what all those technologies are is very much in question. There is good reason to believe these assets are controlled by non-elected, non-appointed people outside of the military chain of command and likely run by some very well compensated and in love with their work technocrats who could never get a date anyway so what do they have to loose in pushing the buttons on them.

Even when you take that off the table the Military can only go as long and far as they have ammunition, fuel, and communications capability and then after that they are reduced down to a pitchfork wielding mob too.

They need to push quite a bit harder until they can unveil an ‘independent’ organization that would have universal appeal to those still believing the system can still some how be changed at the polls.

They might even go with someone like universal appeal like Oprah or some one else who is a trusted and respected celebrity when it’s time to play that card.

Arnold would be great for the role too and with the constitution almost or totally gone at that point they could likely get away with someone not born in America…again!

There is no opposing body, but there are bodies willing to oppose, they still have to keep stoking the flames and worsening conditions. All the present indicators suggest no let up in sight. The more issues they can put out there in combination at anyone time the harder it is for people to rally on any single one. I love a good smorgasbord! Eventually the sheer volume of issues will lead to hopelessness and despair and a nearly irrepressible swell of anger in the masses and then they will tap into it by giving it direction through an avenging figurehead.

Communist totalitarian regimes tolerate no deities friend Mike just cults of personality. Your friends are in serious jeopardy at the moment.

People can not be prepared for a future they can not imagine or see.

I hope you are my friend. Thanks for the assessment and perspective.