Unveiled! Hawaii's 1961 long-form birth certificates

reply to post by SevenThunders


Maybe Obama's father is really George Bush Sr? I bet that would throw him and everyone else into a tailspin IF that were true!!!

So again. Why would there be a paper announcing his birth that day in Hawaii?

Do you really think that if somebody was planning something out for him all the way back then to make sure it was printed in the paper they would have just made sure the baby was born there?

Can you people at least admit to yourself that realistically there will never be any evidence that would sway you? Pretend the long form gets released tomorrow, are you now done with this issue or just trying to find a reason to say it would be fabricated?

Why would McCain's camp after looking into it not bring this information forward? How about Hillary's? What about the other hundreds of very rich powerful people who didn't want him to be president?

reply to post by whoshotJR


That is part of the conspiracy here on this here CONSPIRACY BASED WEBSITE!



deep, I know.

We all know that the Hawaii Dept of Health cannot release Obama's BC because of privacy issues. Although I do find it Ironic that they come out and say it is there.

From my understanding they only look at those certificates only if somebody fills out an application requesting the info.

At one time I had proof that this was the case but it seems they have changed their website.
Anyways, I found this.

All applications requesting certified copies of birth, death, marriage, and divorce certificates must generally be made in writing (application forms may be downloaded from this site - see below). Requests may also be placed for birth and marriage certificates on a limited basis through the Internet (www.ehawaiigov.org/ohsm). Telephone, FAX, or e-mail requests are not accepted.

hawaii.gov...

Seems like the only way Obama could get that certificate was by filling out an application. IMO, the dept of Health has it on file?

Why don't they just produce that document?

If they were allowed to say his original was there, I see no reason they can't show his application. As far as I can tell there is no statue against it and there is really no identifying information on the request form. Basically asking for the same info as seen on his COLB.

I think this would pretty much put the issue to rest.

Here is what the request form look like. Doesn't even ask for a SSN.

PDF FILE

Originally posted by whoshotJR
reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler

 

Where is plucky with a post like that? Is the NWO always rolling the streets and killing people for you? It seems like any issue turns into another reason the world is going to end and the ELITE are going to start killing people any minute over it.

Stop the fearmongering and don't buy into this garbage like the majority of the public. The only person that would start rioting over this would also think they would black mark the real certificate rather then just use something like a photo editor....

Thanks friend, or should I say my new respected foe

You might not feel you have cause for suspicion based on your perspective of the world, experience and understanding with it and here in America that's your right!

I am however suspicious by nature, and just might have some real experiences in the world that give me cause to have a different perspective than you.

My actual message was for people to reunited and celebrate our divisions through rallying around and agreeing what we have in common...

Our nation's constitution, it's values, justice and equality for all and in all things.

If we can't agree on that much, then my assessment is probably pretty accurate, and judging by your response of putting me on your respected foe list for suggesting we find our common denominator and join together and work from there, and that should be our one common denominator as Americans if anything could or would be, I would say...

Yeah we in some trouble son!

By the way Presidents like Andrew Jackson would have likely responded to the Birth Certificate issue by inviting anyone and everyone to the White House to stop by and have a beer and take a look at it, without having to cause a nationaly tellevized racial incident to get an invite.

Did you know that back in those days any one could walk off the street into the White House and request an audience with the President and ask him anything?

It was considered the people's house, not the President's house.

Those are our roots, that was the standared, openess and transparency and accessibility to government and a forum to address and redress real questions and concerns and greviences.

Sound like the America you and I live in today?

I am guessing it's an America you don't even want.

Live and learn, and you will, you will learn a lot more making friends and not enemies, I am not your foe, you are your foe.

Peace

reply to post by Lemon.Fresh


Exactly so help me out by replying to my questions I asked. Maybe I just don't understand what the motto of the site is.

It seems your suggesting that people should post trivial crap with no thought put into it and a disregard for any logic or fact finding. Conspiracies should be based on some fact or at least a plausible angle.

I'm happy, that is what I wanted to see.

Originally posted by infolurker
I have always considered this a non-issue.

If there was anything to this, The CLINTON Machine would have forced him out during the primaries... If there was ANY organization that could find dirt and skeletons, The Clinton machine would have. Let's be real, does anyone here really think that Hillary would settle for her current position.... And Bill would settle for nothing less than to "be" president again (by proxy, you all know what I mean here... I would expect he would have had a press conference or two, just for ego purposes).

[edit on 28-7-2009 by infolurker]

I completely agree with your analysis, but I still, as of yet, cannot understand Obama's reaction to the lawsuits against him when the Plaintiffs attempted to uncover a hard copy of his Birth Certificate. Instead of producing Exonerating Evidence, which EVERY Defendant Prays to do when facing charges, he filed multiple Injunctions for Dismissal, and for Continuations (A common delaying tactic). From my experience with the United States Judicial System, this honestly makes no sense.

Originally posted by whoshotJR
Pretend the long form gets released tomorrow, are you now done with this issue or just trying to find a reason to say it would be fabricated?

It depends on where the information comes from.
I think most people on both sides of this issue accept that the short form is a valid document, especially after factcheck.org investigated some areas of confusion like the blacked out certificate number etc.

If there were any similar discrepancies on the long form when released, then yes it might take factcheck.org to look into it as they did with the short form, to find out what's really going on with the document, but I have a pretty high confidence level in their assessment and certainly have no reason to doubt anything factcheck says about the short form.

So if the long form wasn't really destroyed as earlier claimed (someone suggested the destroyed story was a fabrication by the president of CNN???), why not release it already?

And please focus on this question of releasing the long form, which is the real issue and stop all this childish left versus right name calling, I am asking this of people on both sides of the fence. Just ask Obama to release the long form now, and let's focus on that, ok? People on both sides should be asking for that so this silly debate can end, over what should really be a non-issue.

[edit on 29-7-2009 by Arbitrageur]

reply to post by whoshotJR


You have been here since late 2008, and you do not see the conspiracy side of this?

Originally posted by WhatTheory


How about you pay attention to detail.

They could show us his original birth certificate because after changing their story the Hawaiian officials now say they have a copy of the original and it was not lost or destroyed.

Perhaps you should pay attention to detail.

They have his original birth certificate. Under Hawaii State Law, there is no way for Obama or anyone else to obtain it, or a copy of it. He can only get a certification that repeats the information that is on that certificate.

Under Hawaii State Law, the DOH officials are not allowed to release that certificate or a copy of it to anyone. They are only allowed to release a certification that has the same information to a legitimate party, such as Obama or Congress etc.

Hawaii.gov

Obama has already requested such a certificate, and he has put it online for all to see. That's really all there is to it, details et al.




EDIT to fix quote.

[edit on 29-7-2009 by drwizardphd]

reply to post by drwizardphd


But we can get a copy of some random people who were born the day AFTER?

What the hell kind of sense does that make?

Originally posted by drwizardphd

Originally posted by WhatTheory


How about you pay attention to detail.

They could show us his original birth certificate because after changing their story the Hawaiian officials now say they have a copy of the original and it was not lost or destroyed.

Perhaps you should pay attention to detail.

They have his original birth certificate. Under Hawaii State Law, there is no way for Obama or anyone else to obtain it, or a copy of it. He can only get a certification that repeats the information that is on that certificate.

Under Hawaii State Law, the DOH officials are not allowed to release that certificate or a copy of it to anyone. They are only allowed to release a certification that has the same information to a legitimate party, such as Obama or Congress etc.

Hawaii.gov

Obama has already requested such a certificate, and he has put it online for all to see. That's really all there is to it, details et al.

It seems to me you're both right. I suspect Obama would need to send a letter to the hospital, authorizing the hospital to release the long form, it wouldn't come through the DOH.

And BTW drwizardphd, the link you provided does state that the long form is more informative, so that's the one everyone wants to see, if it exists, which apparently, it does.

Originally posted by Arbitrageur


And BTW drwizardphd, the link you provided does state that the long form is more informative, so that's the one everyone wants to see, if it exists, which apparently, it does.

Yes, that's correct, the long form is more informative. However, the Hawaii.gov site also says this:

Although original birth certificates (Certificates of Live Birth) are preferred for their greater detail, the State Department of Health (DOH) no longer issues Certificates of Live Birth. When a request is made for a copy of a birth certificate, the DOH issues a Certification of Live Birth.

I suspect, that because Obama is POTUS (and thus has enormous pull in this country) that he could somehow force Hawaii to release his long-form, or a copy of it. However, such an act would require some deal of political maneuvering, and I suspect Obama sees this as a non-issue and doesn't want to cater to fringe theorists to prove his birth. Even Ann Coulter has come out admitting he was born in Hawaii, the evidence is so overwhelming only the extremely stubborn hang on to this argument. Even I once believed Obama was hiding something until I saw all of the evidence to support his birth in Hawaii.


For LemonFresh,


The single reason this mother has her twins' long forms, is because she got them before 2001, when Hawaii still issued those documents. Since then it has been impossible to obtain them, which is why in 2008 when Obama requested his he got the newer 'Certification of Live Birth'. It's all very simple to understand when you actually think about it.


EDIT to fix some grammar.

[edit on 29-7-2009 by drwizardphd]

The anti-birthers need to look at some facts... Even some birthers aren't putting together the dates properly.

The newspaper announcement doesn't prove anything. nor is it even relevant.

A better question would be "Did airlines allow newborns to board international flights in 1961?"

Susan Nordyke:

Born : Aug 5, 1961 2:12 p.m.
Registered : Aug. 11, 1961
Number : 151 61 10637


Obama:

Born : Aug. 4, 1961
Registered : Aug 8, 1961
Number : 151 61 10641

Newspaper Published Announcment :: Sunday, Aug. 13, 1961 :: Totally irrelevant.

The newspaper anouncement doesn't prove anything either.

Again: A better question would be "Did airlines allow newborns to board international flights in 1961?"

Born on the 4th ... registration filed on the 8th.

Do you think someone could come to Hawaii and get settled into their hotel or family's home in the span of 4 days and say wander down to the state (NOT hospital) offices and register a birth from outside the country FASTER than, say, a hospital? Would they be rushing to file with the state?

The Honolulu Advertiser published photostats of the original long-form birth certificates of twin daughters born to Eleanor Nordyke at Kapi'olani (Same hospital that claims to have recieved a signed letter from Obama finally marking his hospital of birth) Maternity and Gynecological Hospital Aug. 5, 1961, one day after Obama was supposedly born at the same facility.

Note: It also says CERTIFICATE on Susan Nordyke's photostat.

NOT CERTIFICATION...

The "certification" is supposed to be limited information pulled from the original "certificate" (stored in back).

...Which really reveals nothing to back the illegal aliens' claim.

[color=#00BFFF]Just show it, bro!

Originally posted by drwizardphd
Perhaps you should pay attention to detail.

No, you should stop using that link as proof because that is just a brief synopsis of the actual law.

click here for the law - 338-18

(b) The department shall not permit inspection of public health statistics records, or issue a certified copy of any such record or part thereof, unless it is satisfied that the applicant has a direct and tangible interest in the record.

I take that to mean that Obama could get a copy of the original long form if he wanted to.

Originally posted by drwizardphd
I suspect, that because Obama is POTUS (and thus has enormous pull in this country) that he could somehow force Hawaii to release his long-form, or a copy of it. However, such an act would require some deal of political maneuvering, and I suspect Obama sees this as a non-issue and doesn't want to cater to fringe theorists to prove his birth.

Hmm it's obvious you read the 2nd line of my post, but it's not so obvious you read the first line. I already acknowledged the long form wont normally come from the state but would need to come from the hospital:

Originally posted by Arbitrageur
It seems to me you're both right. I suspect Obama would need to send a letter to the hospital, authorizing the hospital to release the long form, it wouldn't come through the DOH.

And BTW drwizardphd, the link you provided does state that the long form is more informative, so that's the one everyone wants to see, if it exists, which apparently, it does.

And to say that this is a non-issue, well you're right it SHOULD be if he'd release the form! So why Obama doesn't just authorize the hospital to release the document is something I can't comprehend. Until the form is released I don't see how it can be a non-issue with Obama getting sued by members of the military. The last court case I read about rescinded the soldiers' orders rather than release any documentation: www.abovetopsecret.com...

We have more important issues to focus on than this folks. Obama should just release the document and end this silly argument.

Originally posted by MysterE

Unveiled! Hawaii's 1961 long-form birth certificates

www.wnd.com

Real documents include doctor, name of hospital

Images of two 1961 Hawaii birth certificates similar to the one President Obama purportedly has on file have now been unveiled

(visit the link for the full news article)

You use WND.com as if it's not one of the most biased websites on the internet. You have lost any and all credibility by referring to such a website in my eyes, because if you had the sense to seek the truth you'd know you won't find it in a place that has such an agenda.

I guess only biased, manipulative and so called "conservative" websites still care about this drivel.

Yet even if he produced somehow the long form, you'd all call it a forgery and say that the government helped him do it. It won't end. You just don't like him and don't like having someone in office who is doing what he is doing for the American people and not the Corporate Machine that is right wing America.

Originally posted by Arbitrageur
So why Obama doesn't just authorize the hospital to release the document is something I can't comprehend.

It's because you and the other republican/conservative pitbulls will just let go of the issue as if it never happened and latch on to something else, again and again, for 4 years until the election and another 4 after that if he is elected for a second term. It's not about whether he is a legal citizen of the United States; he wouldn't be President if he wasn't. It's just the fact that he isn't a damn republican or conservative and has no intentions of further destroying the country after what King Bush did.

He won't lower taxes, because that only benefits the rich, and Obama cares for the poor.

He wants public healthcare, because he cares about the poor, and private healthcare only cares about the rich.

He doesn't jump into wars and drop 4 or 5 catchphrases (Bring 'Em On! Drill Baby Drill, and other stupid slogans that thoughtless people latch on to) because he is attempting to correct the path of America, the path to destruction that your people and your party set us on for 8 long, terrible years of fear and tyranny.

Why bother explaining himself to you or your birther friends?

He has provided enough to legally show to everyone involved at every stage from Senate to President that he is legitimate. You don't agree and won't let go.

So the reason he doesn't release it is because he would just have to argue a totally different point later on after Rush Limbaugh tells you what to think and say and do after this birther movement completely fails.

Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler
The lines are really being drawn and they are being drawn for us, whether we want them drawn or not.

I don't care what side you are on, I think the Powers that Be are ready to play the Obama card for full effect and now are...

We are all going to loose or we are all going to win, and the only way we are going to win is to return to our constitutional roots and band together and rally around them and what ever politician can meet the test and pass the grade stays and what ever one can't is going to have to go.

The conditions really are being set for open warfare in the streets and the government and the media really is driving it for the expressed purpose of having that happen.

We have got to got to got to wake up and stop all this bickering grow up and remember our Constitution and it's values and put ego and false pride aside pretty darn quick or we are all going to be so screwed we won't ever be able to catch a bus back to _____ed.

I'll agree the 50 odd year experiment of creating a large middle class that could share in the illusory increased wealth has come to an end. Like in most of the world's large countries, China, India, Russia, a small privileged elite benefit from the labour and productivity of hundreds of millions. The underclass is kept marginalized and their ability to rebel is controlled by the defusing of dissent and elimination of effective agitators.

I think most Americans neither know of or fully understand what the Constitution is or why it's so significant. It's hard to rally people around something that is just an abstract concept for them.

The promise of more money and better times is what gains a following. Something that won't be called Communism will emerge as the new solution to the vast poverty and loss of rights that the US is experiencing. Whoever delivers the message convincingly and promises the previous corrupt controllers will be removed from power and punished will be given authority.

Right now I see no individual or organization that is delivering this retribution message. The US military only recognizes one authority, their paymaster. They would be the deciding force if there is a mass confrontation.

There is no opposing body, and I don't see one on the immediate horizon.
I just see a lot of repression and increased economic disparity. No one prepared for the future, which has arrived.


Mike