Five Things You Should Keep In Mind Before Posting In The UFO Forum

reply to post by Kadzait


Thanks and it's not a problem.

As far as the two threads I presented as examples... In my opinion the Coyne case has solid evidence to back it up (it was also WELL presented by one of our top contributers in this forum), while the "many of you are aliens" thread was nothing more than speculation, thus it fit the Skunk Works creteria perfectly. The UFO forum is the more serious side of UFO topics here, while the other UFO related topics, while still being UFO related, just do not have the burden of proof met to even be posted in a UFO thread!lol...

That is my take anyways. Thanks again for your reply and nice words.

I vote we keep this thread alive forever.

Very well-worded and presented. Starred. Flagged. Encased in gold leaf.

I hold back ocean's of anger and hostility at the NewAge Nutbars, MarsFreaks, UltraSkeptics, and AnythingIntheSkyMustBe-A-UFO'ers on a daily basis. They're truly lower life forms that must be eradicated, not because they are ignorant, but because they continually refuse to present a rational argument, or educate themselves enough and look at both sides of an issue. They clog up our boards and suck the value out of visiting this site... like an infesting virus.

I won't name any names but by now, you know me, and YOU KNOW WHO YOU ARE.

The Vaccine has been administered, and you will soon be eliminated.

BWA-AH-AH-AH- (reverby evil villian laugh)




[edit on 29-7-2009 by NightVision]

Originally posted by mckyle
reply to post by mmiichael

 

Hi mmichael good to see you.

I am sure your words resonate with many on this board. Intuitively, I feel there's been a "watering down" of the overall - can I say academic - standard of ATS articles. The good researchers are still there in most cases - JKrog08, Internos, et al, but the idiots have reached a critical mass! The ratio between quality and rubbish is increasingly more disparate.

Hi mckyle, good to hear from you too.

No denying the noise to signal ratio has increased, at least here on ATS.

This is a conspiracy site and there is little filtering of imagination based information vs tangible evidence. The site's increasing popularity and cross referencing on Google searches has attracted the less critical younger type, a lot of delusionals, who see this all as some vast videogame or faith based thing with an interface to the outside world.

A kind of intellectual hierarchy has evolved. Some of us take the UFO phenomenon seriously and hope to get closer to determining what is going on out there. But what started out as an unexplained phenomenon has morphed into a mythological cult full of evil secretive governments, competing aliens, hidden messages, etc.

Those who take it seriously are increasingly seen as atheists refusing to buy into the all the popular fantasies.


Mike

reply to post by mmiichael

No denying the noise to signal ratio has increased, at least here on ATS.

Well that means it is up to those who wish to take charge of the forum to "cancel out the noise".

Alright, since I believe in this "doctrine" I have put forth I guess it is only proper if I make an official confession(hopefully others will follow and see that it is no big deal to admit you were wrong and change )

I have been too self driven (personally) lately, wanting what I WANT for ufology and thus this board. I have not kept in mind that this is EVERYONES, lol not just mine, regardless of my intentions this is WRONG. Even though I have not done anything publically to show this, I am still guilty by letting those thoughts propagate. Why am I saying this?

Because everyone needs to be accountable, even the best intentions can make things worse. If one lets none relevant thoughts, feelings, and actions get in the way of one directive then in reality they are hurting that very directive.

One more thing....

Some people are just here to "chat", while others are here to help find the truth...Which one are you?

I have said this because I would like this to be an example for all.

[edit on 7/29/2009 by jkrog08]

First of all I am happy to see that ATS and especially the UFO forum is evolving.
I think I watched jkrog08 from his very first posts until now and I am glad to see he is becoming a great contributing member.
I believe this is happening because he chose to listen the oldest more experienced members in ATS who have really dedicated lots of time and effort and unfortunately for some, they belong to the skeptic side. There is of course a bad and a good side of skeptics. Fortunately these to which I am referring to are the kind of skeptics who do their homework before contributing their experience in threads.

The UFO phenomenon is a very difficult subject. This probably happens because it probably involves things beyond our current comprehension. Mainly for many of the riddles to be solved surrounding this phenomenon responsible are not the right answers probably, but the right questions. I have observed time and time again that many people who feel they should belong on the "non skeptic" side always behave like they have some kind of an answer that should prevail over all skepticism and valid research, above all hypothesis and research material that any UFO case can yield. It is not entirely their fault though because the powers that be probably do not want us informed, do not want us asking questions, do not want us looking for answers. While they beg to make a difference and I believe I can share their anxieties and hopes, they might be falling to the traps that are being laid out for them.

We all should be asking questions regarding this elusive phenomenon know as the UFOs and not just jump at the first opportunity to provide answers else there is only confusion.

There might be a very promising field of research to hard science and mainly for the social sciences on why this phenomenon is so much elusive. Regarding the valid and identified cases of UFO contact, If we accept that other civilizations might exist and probably some do visit us, it is of utmost importance for us to find the observed behavioral patterns and categorize them in order for them to be analyzed for a valid hypothesis to be produced. This is where our current levels of comprehension are lacking. It might be that we just see situations where things are becoming elusive for a purpose.

Despite all the numerous publications all those years of people and institutions that became rich exploiting peoples needs for answers, the reality is that we still do not understand the greater picture, hence we need to ask questions instead of making things up and chasing around imaginary answers.

The RIGHT QUESTIONS need to be put on the table for us to start making some progress regarding the UFO phenomenon. maybe we have not evolved yet in order to get an idea of what we should be asking and why, but we are slowly getting there and that is thanks to people who inspire the newer generations of researchers with their hard work, detailed analysis and general positive contribution.

[edit on 30-7-2009 by spacebot]

reply to post by spacebot


mmiichael, jkrog08, spacebot,

I couldn't agree more with your collective observations. But I must admit a sense of defeat creeping in to my overall general view of Ufology. This is mainly because the prevailing ethos fails to accommodate a serious 'sicentific' approach to the discipline's study: to wit: the general willingness of the masses to accept any evidence, without any critical analysis.

So whilst there are truly capable researchers out there, they are appreciated by perhaps 20% of the Ufology crowd. The rest just want bread and circuses - a la, CGI - no matter how bogus.

This really does and has deflated me. To the point where I really am putting in less time to ATS, because in the end, the question for me is - to what avail???

I am more and more convinced that the only way we will 'know' the validity of the ET hypothesis is when ET is good and ready to come knocking.

Having said that, I don't doubt for a minute that our planet is regularly visited. However, these visitations give us nothing more than tantalizing glimpses of who and what ET is. I feel it's only going to be when ET decides to introduce itself that we'll have the big questions answered.

As to when that happens, is anybodies guess.

reply to post by jkrog08

Starred, flagged & submitted on Digg for you.

Great work mate!

reply to post by spacebot


Wow, I can't express how your nice words made me feel. THANK YOU.

On the rest of your post I agree, I too am guilty of sometimes trying to force answers or do too much when in reality I should just sit back and research, because as you said, the reality is we don't know ANY answers. The best we can do is use probability based on what little evidence has been collected, and that is usually just circumstantial, any physical evidence has been questionable at best so far. We got a GREAT discussion going on here guys (and girls), one of the best I have seen in a while in my humble opinion. This IS what keeps me on ATS and studying UFOs and doing what very little I can to progress-- at the very least, the knowledge throughout the public, as I truly believe that is the ONLY way we will ever succeed, public support is the key in my humble opinion. Thanks again EVERYONE for your well thought out, intelligent, and humble replies.

reply to post by mckyle


There is still plenty of good in ATS in this specific field. You are not alone in your thoughts, but I think it wil get better, there are many members now that are starting to quickly filter the non-real from the real. I still have my hopes, as should all.

Thanks again for your kind words and replies my friend!

Addition:

Consider The Pros and Cons of Starting A Thread Out of Emotions

Is what you have to write really worth starting a whole new thread? Is it just 1,2, or 3 sentences of childish-like remarks? You probably should NOT post the thread in that case, as it does nothing but detract from any real research and learning. I understand that the UFO field can be very annoying at times, however one must look at the benefits of cluttering an already cluttered forum. There are countless other ways to go about expressing your frustration, here are a few:

1. Just don't say anything at all out of frustration, sit back, relax, and chill out. Everything will be okay in the long run.

2. Find a already existing thread to post your comment(of course make sure it is somewhat relative to the topic at hand), instead of making a whole new thread for a simple remark.

3. If you feel it is absolutely nessicary to start a thread, at least make it some what mature and intelligent. This would be an example of what you should NOT do:

OP: " I am sick of UFOs because there is no evidence of them, these aliens need to show themselves or just leave us alone!!!!"

Now honestly, what purpose is there to creating a whole thread just to say that?

What you could do is maybe try to start a discussion for members who are just as frustrated as you are, but maybe not post it in the UFO forum. Also maybe you could give detailed reasons behind your statement, as well as your own plan on what should be done to fix it. This will ALWAYS lead to a much more intelligent discussion that while still maybe not the most important of topics, it surely won't hurt anything.

Again, I am only trying to offer some friendly advice from experience.

I have been guilty of creating a thread I maybe should have thought out better because I was letting my emotions take over. We are human so it happens, hopefully though some will keep this post in mind and save themselves from the same trap others and myself have fallen into before.

I really like mmiichael's and jkrog08's views too.

mckyle, if you feel a sense of defeat just remember that we live in a society that is enamored with the need of instant gratification and plagued with a short attention span. You just have fallen ill of this disease as me or as anyone else has.

I too I can remember since I was a kid about reading scientific literature, magazines, books etc especially about space exploration and anything relevant, remember reading respected scientists that for the attention or for the money or both had me believe that past the year 2000 we would be functioning as a fully fledged space fairing civilization.
Guess what. I'm still waiting. Did I feel disheartened at some time? Sure did.
I even remember that the reference of the number 2000 was the mark of our new space era. Everything had the number 2000 or a reference to it as being a mark of the future. Especially gadgetry From simple electric appliances to car models. Probably all those people who "invented" this trick or whomever participated in that trend if you told them about the possibility like a medium to exist some day such as the internet they would probably tell you that you must be crazy and that thing would never happen..


In a collective level we surely are not ready to advance at our final frontier. Imagine we have to meet societies that not only do not have short attention span as we do, or plagued by the need of instant gratification but instead having the ability of putting up long term goals that would require up to 2 3 or even 5 centuries in to the future for their completion. We simply do not function like that. We certainly lack at certain terms as species but we excel in other things. We might be slow for centuries then make leaps and bounds in matters of decades. It's just how we are. A good thing for us is that we don't require our reality to be flawless and smooth for us to make advances, it is at the hard times that we seem we prevail.
Certainly there might be a spot for us that we can fit somewhere out there, along with others of different kinds. Reality is unpredictable and nobody knows what is stored for us or even others in the future.
Real progress will come when the essence of our questions will be more attuned with the nature of the enigmas we are trying to solve. Have patience.


Even if we seem we are back stepping at times, there is progress. Every time we have to look back and see what kind of progress have we made at several other sectors. I really believe that an ET presence, no matter how exciting, it will not happen. It is not the right way. We will find them by ourselves probably.

Why be sad and disheartened? Anything you contribute is probably for someone else some valuable research matter or food for thought, a small stepping stone that even might guide him to even get inspiration to solve the most puzzling riddles we are facing. It does not matter how long will it take as long as as many brains as possible are working at it, it will eventually happen.

jkrog08, since I am reading ATS and especially the UFO forum that fills a great part of my entertaining time and since I enjoy very much cases being analyzed by the experts on this board and since I don't really have time to contribute anything valuable to the ATS I can only post something nice or think out loud about things I observe and only help this team of experts become bigger by encourage newer members who seem they got the right talent for it.

That's all

[edit on 30-7-2009 by spacebot]

[edit on 30-7-2009 by spacebot]

reply to post by spacebot


Well thoughtout and written spacebot, and thank you for taking the time to write such a comprehensive piece. Much appreciated

To give you an example of where I think my increasing cynicism is stemming from, have a look at this link that Chadwickus and I were chatting about yesterday:
Allnewscrock and Michael Cohen Rear their Ugly Heads

I know Jkrog08 and Sam60 know about it already, but I'm not sure if you guys were aware that it came back to life last week, with Cohen appearing in several personas.

Trust me, it is worth the time to read it!!

Cheers,

Matt

reply to post by mckyle


Thanks for bringing that thread back up. I had not looked at in a while and did not realize how it had developed. Either way I found it best to stay out of it, since I could not contribute anything of value to it, plus we already had some top members on there taking care of the issue. It is sad it turned out the way it did. It was a heated situation and it was not easy to maintain any professionalism in there due to the circumstances. It was a hard situation all around--for everyone.

[edit on 7/30/2009 by jkrog08]

Just to expand a little on my previous comments:

It's not so much the arrival or non-arrival of ET that disheartens me. Of course I would love to see ET - so long as he wasn't a carbon copy of that unfriendly ET from the Alan Dean Foster novels (the book was turned into the movie "Alien")

What disheartens me is the fact that most of the hard work done by dedicated researches not only faces ridicule and derision from those outside Ufology, but sadly from within.

The majority of true-believers don't have the faintest idea about what constitutes solid research!!! Nor do they care. Even some of the more senior members here on ATS can't - or don't want to - differentiate between blind acceptance and critical analysis.

So that's where my current disposition stems from. I see some damn good researchers put in a hell of a lot of effort and quality analysis - such as Jkrog, Internos, et al, but it goes unappreciated by most. I think the most galling thing I witness at times is when some idiots turn around and collectively accuse these guys as being skeptics, because they wont accept a bogus CGI video as legitimate.

With such a collective mindset, I am less than optimistic about Ufology ever becoming accepted as a mainstream sub-discipline of science.

That's the most disheartening thing for me. It's like feeding truffles to pigs. If you'll pardon my crude analogy.

Matt

reply to post by jkrog08


That's the sad thing about Justin - those guys never will. Because they don't have even the most crude understanding of the importance of impirical-based research. And never will.

[edit on 30-7-2009 by mckyle]

reply to post by spacebot

jkrog08, since I am reading ATS and especially the UFO forum that fills a great part of my entertaining time and since I enjoy very much cases being analyzed by the experts on this board and since I don't really have time to contribute anything valuable to the ATS I can only post something nice or think out loud about things I observe and only help this team of experts become bigger by encourage newer members who seem they got the right talent for it.

And there is NO issue with that what-so-ever. This is to be expected of course. The always neutral comments, like you referred to are a non-issue in my books my friend.

reply to post by mckyle

Just when you thought it was safe to get back in the water, someone started a thread posting "evidence" that Johnathon Reed/Rutter's alien was real.

What more can one say?

reply to post by mckyle

Or.....

Try this thread wherein Paul McCartney has been killed & replaced by a reptilian body double

www.abovetopsecret.com...

It's a worry...

reply to post by Sam60


Sam60: to wit

Two good - or rather bad - expamples of the downward spiral ufology is in.

Thanks for pointing those out mate