Pope attacks art vandalising Bible

The persecution complex of a religion claiming 2 billion adherents never gets old I know, I know, Christians are so terribly oppressed; did some jerks write on your book?

People write on books all the time, why don't you all start by going to your local library and demand that people suspected of defacing publicly funded literature be fined at once! Oh.. probably because none of you genuinely care if people write in any book, just one book specifically, even suggesting that people should write in another book (the Koran), to make it fair. Sounds like something you'd expect to hear from children.. "But Moomm! He wrote in my book first!"

No one book, or it's contents, is holier than any other book. Nor does any book deserve special protection over any other book. All literature is equal and although I condemn purposely defacing books to be malicious, it's still just a book. There's far too many legitimate issues to be concerned with these days to be inventing ones to inflict your manufactured outrage upon.

Originally posted by Republican08
reply to post by tristar

 

I bought a used college book once, believe it or not, but in the freud section of the psychology book, there was a penis drawn on it.

Did I get upset.... not really, Did I kill and commit genocide...no.... Did I report it to the book owner...yes, hey a yes way to go.

If it had been done with the quran, someone would be burning right now inside of a tire. If you disagree, research how pissed they got at a drawing, which made massive publicity because of their anger of it!

This is the common "My god is a little god, and he will stay a little god" type of thinking.

My God, yahweh for example, does not need a book defaced, that he made! This angers me, it should anger you! It should anger everyone, let's preach anger now! and yoda cues himself in there.

Everything is subject. I doubt a OMNIPOTENT, OMNISCIENT Being, would be showered in anger because of this, and the pope has outlived his life, and would be well to pass on like the rest of his age groups.

i feel were on the verge of something very big, unless the government steps in to close this so called exhibition

Unless daddy, comes and tells us what we can and cannot do? Will we know what is right?

How upset a hindu would be of that, or a muslim would be by that statement, that you call upon the government to protect the holy (unholy) bible.

People are wising up, and get to voice their OPINIONS over the forced atrocities and condemnations of a people from thousands of years ago!

The general public will not take the atrocities expressed in the bible, and holding steadfast to them, hoping the gov't steps in, is absurd.

The bible is so screwed up left and right, and holds onto nothing but imaginary, misfiring, and schizophrenical tendencies in humans, that it is no more what it may of been, quite simply aesops fable.

Deface it, draw penis' on it, and attack it, if there is a god, he will show his face, and quite hiding behind blankets and shadows, and shadows within shadows, and backstepping everything, and changing his opinions, in his bipolar ways, then he'll step up, if not, abandon the faith.

I'm sure a few humans, wouldn't upset someone who made nebulas, failing galaxies, black holes, existing solar systems, giant universes, atoms, ants, bugs, sub atomic particles! Of course, some believe they'll burn in hell for eternity, which makes this god an unjust god. Which sotomayour could do a better job then him!

Rant over. Will reply to express certain viewpoints better. Since, you have the priveldge to object to me, without outrage of nations, and one almighty being (pope) detesting me. Be happy.

I would take this one step further, how about if a group of venture capitalist's decided to perform an exhibition around the world.

Within the exhibition we were to place books which represent all the religions with identical instructions. You get paid 1 cent or penny to write what ever you want upon those books.

How many nations do you think would allow this "art exhibition" under the flag of "expression"

Now you have the privilege to question my motives and hidden agenda as to why i would ask or perhaps in the near future promote such a global experiment.

reply to post by ZombieOctopus

It's called respect. Apparently something which you are lacking.

Would it be ok if I come over to your house and start writing on your walls with permanent marker? I promise I will only draw art. Then can I use the same marker and write all over your car? Again, I will only draw art.

Of course you would not like it and you would expect someone to RESPECT your things and not write all over them.

Respect, I guess they do not teach this in school anymore.

Originally posted by ZombieOctopus

To show so much disrespect to hundred's of millions is surely a move to incite anger thus achieving a negative result within society. Funny enough, i always thought that negativism or a nihilist is a non constructive form of evolution.

[edit on 28-7-2009 by tristar]

reply to post by Gemwolf


Hi Gemwolf/
Well spoken!

It's amazing what people call art today and truly believe they are actually doing a favour to their community.

ICXC NIKA
helen

reply to post by tristar


What if I told you each Sunday I go out an purchase a 'BuyBull' and then wee on it after setting it alight...? I don't hate it, I just think it's fun and a different thing to do on Sunday.

Why do you really care? It's just a book with printed text that you can go out and buy your own copy and do whatever you want with it. You want people to respect your point of view, why arent you respecting theirs? They arent hurting you, they arent abusing children, selling drugs, stealing, killing or cheating. It's just 'art' - albeit a form you don't like.

If your belief in your religion is so weak and questionable that a simple act of 'defacing' a Bible causes that much angst in you, isn't it you with the problem? And aren't you above all this? Shouldn't you be "forgiving" them anywaze?



[edit on 28-7-2009 by noonebutme]

reply to post by Sed Non Credo


I agree with your view of this.

I sometimes find myself disgusted, viscerally so, by art; some truly bother me, others seem grotesque but ultimately pointless (and therefore innocuous). The desire to provoke is often deemed a salient characteristic of art produced in the past few decades, a mark of the human soul's degradation. But we must remember that mischief-makers and tortured souls have churned out...conversation pieces (?) for ages. The apparent wave of shock-art in the past, oh, 40 years or so is due more to greater liberty of expression than a changing human nature. We've always harbored radical, disturbing ideas; as always, when the human mind finds more public venues for expression, the tide of offense follows on its heels. Conflict is the nature of society, and few things rival religion as an instigator.

I do find myself offended by art. It does not happen often, and the feeling is always a sort of kick to the stomach--an unpleasant, undeniable surprise. It demands my attention, a quality that only serves to anger me further until I'm able to command my senses and focus on the reason for my response. I am not reactionary by nature and my inclination is to analyse my thoughts. I do not like to say, "This offends me."; I prefer to ask, "Why does this offend me?".

Offense does not equate to injury. For me, this distinction lies at the root of what constitutes liberty of expression. It is not enough to say that you are insulted, that your beliefs--regardless of how firmly held--are offended by someone's expression; the pertinent question is, "Is this art criminal?". Unless a work of art constitutes a legal violation, I do not believe it is justifiable to interfere with its expression. I am an ardent believer in personal liberty, and contrary to many who espouse the same, I do not waver when someone's expression offends me.

Originally posted by Gemwolf
In other words if I took an American flag and have people write obscenities all over it I could also call it art? Perhaps we can burn it in a spectacular finale? We would be expressing ourselves - and they make millions of flags every year after all... It would be just one flag...

I wonder if the non-religious folks would have the same opinion if we changed "Bible" with "American Flag" in the above article?

Indeed, my opinion remains the same. Is the flag's debasement a legal offense in the particular location? If not, no interference is warranted. My lack of enjoyment does not warrant a concession of liberty by the offender.

reply to post by noonebutme


Hmmm so if any form of art is ok

How do you feel about 2girls1cup ? That was called art by some, there was also a university student who tried to do something similar in public display, do you consider that art ?

What if there was art which depicted rape & murder would you have no issues with that on public display ?

It is afterall art

Originally posted by noonebutme
reply to post by tristar

 

What if I told you each Sunday I go out an purchase a 'BuyBull' and then wee on it after setting it alight...? I don't hate it, I just think it's fun and a different thing to do on Sunday.

Why do you really care? It's just a book with printed text that you can go out and buy your own copy and do whatever you want with it. You want people to respect your point of view, why arent you respecting theirs? They arent hurting you, they arent abusing children, selling drugs, stealing, killing or cheating. It's just 'art' - albeit a form you don't like.

Often enough people are not aware or exposed to methods employed to erode a system which for some unknown reason seems to have been successfully injected into society with the ultimate goal in communication and cooperation for the benefit of the human race and its evolution. Have we not achieved so much as a human race with our ups and downs based on each persons influence from external sources. Should i point out that one of the external sources is religion and its belief structure with a core element being respect regardless of who,what or were you come from ?

If your belief in your religion is so weak and questionable that a simple act of 'defacing' a Bible causes that much angst in you, isn't it you with the problem? And aren't you above all this? Shouldn't you be "forgiving" them anywaze?
[edit on 28-7-2009 by noonebutme]

My belief in my religion is as strong as the next link which binds it. However i will not stand idle while horse shiit is being exposed for what it is. As for me having a problem, well as most of my dearest friends are from 5 different religions and we often enough question and debate theoctratical belief systems, we ultimately have one common agreement. We must respect what others believe in, that may include a cow, a snake a book, an icon or an ideology which might be represented by all and many more of what i have just mentioned.

I don't have a problem with this. A book is just a book. Paper with words printed on it. Art can be whatever you want it to be.

I spent years in Art College and have seen things in galleries that would offend nearly everyone. This is no exception. I just wish I had come up with the idea before this "artist".

Originally posted by System
I don't have a problem with this. A book is just a book. Paper with words printed on it. Art can be whatever you want it to be.

I spent years in Art College and have seen things in galleries that would offend nearly everyone. This is no exception. I just wish I had come up with the idea before this "artist".

Feel free to use my idea i mentioned previously and let me know how well it goes while trying to set it up state by state.

Originally posted by WhatTheory
reply to post by ZombieOctopus

 

It's called respect.

Apparently something which you are lacking.

Would it be ok if I come over to your house and start writing on your walls with permanent marker? I promise I will only draw art. Then can I use the same marker and write all over your car? Again, I will only draw art.

Of course you would not like it and you would expect someone to RESPECT your things and not write all over them.

Respect, I guess they do not teach this in school anymore.

Perhaps not, although teaching false analogies is right up there though it would seem. I don't even know where to start with how terrible that analogy was.

First of all, I paid for my house and car, they are my personal property and last I checked, willful destruction of private property was a crime. The book in question does not belong to you personally and the person whom it does belong to has given his permission and encouragement to write in it. If I asked you to write on my walls, of course that would be ok...

Albeit I'll grant you respect based on bare assertion and your mastery of false analogies, I'm afraid reading comprehension has suffered as a result I do remember saying quite plainly that I condemn anyone who maliciously defaces any literature, but noted the energy being siphoned by this hollow outrage could be better utilized on things which actually justify it... and matter.

And as I said, if you were actually so offended, why aren't you speaking out about school text books being defaced? Library books? Any book at all? I guarantee you, for every book on the shelf in every library, there is at least one person who feels as strongly about that particular book as you do about the Christian Bible. So writing in any book, for any reason, should be banned on the grounds that someone, somewhere, could be offended by the doodles? You really think that makes a lot of sense hmm?

reply to post by ZombieOctopus


School/Library books are not defaced in a public though are they ?

For me, it's not the writing itself, it's the public display of the writing which is used akin to rubbing Christians faces in the dirt, basically saying "I wipe my arse with your silly little book"

The whole foundation of Christianity is built around that book, it's entirely disrespectful to deface it in such a hateful and distateful public display. All it does is provide more hatred against those the cause is trying to highlight.

I'm Agnostic and can't stand organised religion but even I can see when something is downright disrespectful and hateful and this incident is and is as far from art as NASA is at revealing the existance of ET

reply to post by ZombieOctopus


The problem (i.e. this whole issue) isn't really that they wrote in a bible... I know many Christians that write in their bibles - making notes, and what not. I'm sure it wouldn't have been in the news if it was simply "doodles". It became an issue because:

Visitors were offered pens by gallery bosses so they could scrawl comments on the text - leading to a host of puerile and obscene remarks.

Disrespect. Plain and simple. There's nothing arty about obscenities. Not on walls. Not on clothing. Not in the bible.

Edit: Clarity

[edit on 28-7-2009 by Gemwolf]

Originally posted by ZombieOctopus
although teaching false analogies is right up there though it would seem. I don't even know where to start with how terrible that analogy was.

Sorry, but what is false is your assumption that the Bible is just another book. If you want to talk about bad analogies then all you have to do is look in the mirror because comparing the bible to a ordinary school book proves that you have no respect by not understanding what it means to others and that you suffer from the same apparant 'false analogy syndrome".

Oh, the irony & hypocrisy.

[edit on 7/28/2009 by WhatTheory]

This is intruiging to say the least, The pope is offended? Ums okay. You do know it is actually a christian who is behind all of this?

Shocked Yes? No?

An artist who created an artwork in which visitors were encouraged to deface a copy of the Bible has asked for it to be put in a glass case.

Jane Clarke, herself a Christian, had said she wanted people who felt marginalised to be able to write their stories back into the Bible.

Ms Clarke said: "Writing our names in the margins of a Bible was to show how we have been marginalised by many Christian churches, and also our desire to be included in God's love.

There you have, what would you have the authorities do, burn her at the stake for being a blasphemia.

BBC Scotland



[edit on 28-7-2009 by Laurauk]

reply to post by noonebutme


Hi/
And so tell me,If someone was to come into your house and trash the place up and BURN and do SIMILAR art work on your FAMILY pictures/photos,How would that make you feel?
Im definitely certain it wont bring a SMILE to the face.


ICXC NIKA
helen

reply to post by Laurauk


Just to add what she obviously understand's and is rational thinking

She added: "It was never my intention to offend anyone - believers and non-believers alike. I had hoped that people would show respect for the Bible, for Christianity and indeed for the Gallery of Modern Art. I am saddened that some people have chosen to write offensive messages."

news.bbc.co.uk...


My stupid question is: Did no one go and have a look at what was being written ?

I mean, even a child would want to have a look at the quotes after several minutes had gone by. !

[edit on 28-7-2009 by tristar]

reply to post by Laurauk


Hi Laura/

And just because ONE is called a CHRISTIAN does not make it any more acceptable.
It's like MANY people today,look good on the outside, but rotten to the CORE!



ICXC NIKA
helen

No need to offend religious people, but they dabble in alot of that between faiths and towards people with no faith. And the Pope is just such a Nob...