Pope attacks art vandalising Bible

Originally posted by Wobbly Anomaly
It can be, if for example we talk about fine art in the 15th century. Subjectively i can look back on my cultural art heritage over a much longer period than a modern american looking back over their culture. Thats a historic fact, what it means is another matter

That would be a historical fact, and if the fella had said, "EUROPEAN ART HERITAGE HAS HAD A LONGER EXISTENCE THAN THE AMERICAN, (SPECIFICALLY SINCE MODERN EUROPEANS SETTLED THERE AFTER COLUMBUS) ART HERITAGE", then you may have a point. But he didn't he just said that European as europeans have always been years ahead of us in terms of art, culture, class, and spirituality" he did not say that Europeans have a longer tradition *which in itself does not prove superiority) than Americans (post Columbus)

It's not nebulous at all,

it is incredibly nebulous

had it occured to you that he could have been being sarcastic ?

that is a possibility, though he has kept it well hidden in his post if he is being sarcastic

Plus there is my comment above above subjectivity and history. It's only nebulous if you are not able to either see the point or gain some insight/inspiration from it,

His comment was nebulous as it is was phrased rather vaguely- mind you even if he had specified (though the specifications will never fully eradicate the nebulous nature of it when referring to things such as "spirituality") it would still be subjective and not "historically accurate" (in any other sense in that someone agrees with that opinion)

but that is not always the fault of the comment, sometimes it's down to the ability of the reader (again subjectivity). Which brings us back to the bible installation. Its is art for those that get something from it, insulting to others, meaningless to someone else.

It is not the readers fault in this instance, but thanks for sharing that

[edit on 4-8-2009 by blueorder]

Originally posted by blueorder



It is not the readers fault in this instance, but thanks for sharing that

Subjectivity is indeed wide ranging

Originally posted by Wobbly Anomaly

Originally posted by blueorder



It is not the readers fault in this instance, but thanks for sharing that

Subjectivity is indeed wide ranging

haha, very good

The Bible deserves the least respect in my opinion. I think I may go out and buy a copy, just to burn it. Why? Because it's a disgusting book. But I won't due to the respect of freedom of beliefs...you want to read and worship a book that promotes slavery, go for it.

Oh,

F the Pope.

Originally posted by blueorder
faeces on a wall is not art, as someone mentioned

The bible is feces in a book to me... so I don't respect it.

The same way you are free not to respect this ART.

Originally posted by Wobbly Anomaly

Originally posted by tristar

Originally posted by mithrawept
Wobbly is spot on here.

Christians attempt to censor any opposing view because their belief will not stand up to scrutiny. It is a defense mechanism, in the same way that a person losing an argument will refuse to discuss it any further.

Ill go head to head as far as Christians "censor"(ring) and other major religions doing far more than what you have posted. Choose your religion(s) and im sure ill lay to rest anything you present to me.

Keep in mind, Gloves are off and im sure will get along fine.

If you are saying that you will argue on behalf of christians to say they dont censor then i except your challenge. Just tell me the thread you've started and i'll be more than happy to respond.

What i posted was that Christianinty and all other religions have censored material but that does not mean that it wont stand up on its own two feet. On the other hand, there are many non natural occurrence in real life that defy science and are far more evident in religion.

the artist should give equal time to the Torah, the Quran, the upinishads, the bagavad gita, the tao te ching, the analects of kungfutze, the sutras and any other religious books.

also, instead of pens, he should be distributing cups of blood to soak the pages in.

That would be far more appropriate and a much stronger statement.

reply to post by tristar


this is disgusting. how can people seriously think that this is ok? I understand christianity isn't a growing popular thing, but dam, this bible bashing is just wrong.

Originally posted by butterflycatcher
reply to post by tristar

 

this is disgusting. how can people seriously think that this is ok? I understand christianity isn't a growing popular thing, but dam, this bible bashing is just wrong.

I would not worry too much about it, as it is a sign of times, it has been foretold far before we were conceived as an idea.

Originally posted by tristar

Originally posted by butterflycatcher
reply to post by tristar

 

this is disgusting. how can people seriously think that this is ok? I understand christianity isn't a growing popular thing, but dam, this bible bashing is just wrong.

I would not worry too much about it, as it is a sign of times, it has been foretold far before we were conceived as an idea.

Hi Tri/butterfly/

Why else would God take FLESH and become man?
To show US that in the flesh we can overcome as He did, as the Son of God(God-LOGOS)...God in the FLESH proved and showed man that he too can overcome evil with patience and Humility.
PRIDE was SATANS sin.
HUMILITY overcomes PRIDE!
Jesus as God in the flesh had similar qualities to that of man being of flesh and Spirit.

''These things I command you,
that ye love one another.
If the world hate you,
ye know that it hated me before it hated you.
If ye were of the world,
the world would love his own: but because ye are not of the world,
but I have chosen you out of the world,
therefore the world hateth you (John 15:17-19). In the world, He concluded, ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world (John 16:33).
We are ALL chosen to follow.....Calling the holy Apostles (and through them-us) to be companions in His victory, Christ summoned all to battle against the world's evil: Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword (Matthew. 10:34).
And to this day the world is engaged in a war between sin and Christ's Truth...There is a choice in the matter!


ICXC NIKA
helen

Originally posted by helen670



Hi Tri/butterfly/

Why else would God take FLESH and become man?
To show US that in the flesh we can overcome as He did, as the Son of God(God-LOGOS)...God in the FLESH proved and showed man that he too can overcome evil with patience and Humility.
PRIDE was SATANS sin.
HUMILITY overcomes PRIDE!
Jesus as God in the flesh had similar qualities to that of man being of flesh and Spirit.

''These things I command you,
that ye love one another.
If the world hate you,
ye know that it hated me before it hated you.
If ye were of the world,
the world would love his own: but because ye are not of the world,
but I have chosen you out of the world,
therefore the world hateth you (John 15:17-19). In the world, He concluded, ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world (John 16:33).
We are ALL chosen to follow.....Calling the holy Apostles (and through them-us) to be companions in His victory, Christ summoned all to battle against the world's evil: Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword (Matthew. 10:34).
And to this day the world is engaged in a war between sin and Christ's Truth...There is a choice in the matter!


ICXC NIKA
helen

This is another great example of why the art work has been succesful, the bible and the work of art both provide an outlet for expression that we may not have otherwise had. People are not always capable of expressing themselves fully and need to resort to tools like the bible or in the case of the subject of this thread, a work of art involving the bible, to let their feelins out.

Early on in the old testament we are told that Jahweh is a jeleous god, introducing us to his way of 'feeling' about the world. Jeleousy and pride are intrinsic aspects of Jahweh and he commanded and still, it appears, commands these qualities in the followers of the bible hence the reactions we are seeing to this work of art.

Christ may be coming with a sword, but art shows that people will stand up to jeleousy and favouratism with self expression, humour and actions that do not hurt others (apart from their ego's......and their pride)

We should be celebrating that a simple work of art that demands no more from people other than their thought can have so much impact. Art in this sense can be seen as showing us the way and the light in this crazy world of judgements and the fractured community of mankind.