Skeptics who are skeptical just to maintain skepticism

Originally posted by EvolvedMinistry
I've went around many of these UFO rooms and conspiracy boards just to count the number of skeptics who maintain their ignorant little box of reality. I'd love to say that there's some originality in what they are doing, however, it all begins to equate to the same nonsense spewed from the mouths of the WEAK who insist on maintaining and controlling the perceptions of others.

Personally, I think its healthy to keep a skeptical mind when dealing with information that could easily be fabricated. However, when idiots like these troll the boards and put into question the experience, research, and hard work of people who have developed a lifetime of credibility (Buzz Aldrin, Edgar Mitchell, former Presidents, politicians, countless numbers of pilots, police officers, military personnel) then I have to question the credibility of the FOOLS who believe that they are qualified to debunk the evolutionary pioneers of our society.

Tell me...Who is going to have enough credibility for you people to finally accept that there are things going on that you are not aware of? Modern society hasn't been around that long. We, as an entire civilization, barely know (or don't know at all) what resides on the floors of our oceans because of pressure, and yet, THESE SELF MADE GENIUSES BELIEVE THAT THEY CAN POSTULATE AND DETERMINE WHAT DOES, OR DOES NOT EXIST IN THE INFINITY OF THE UNIVERSE. Do yourselves a favor and quit pretending like God has granted you intelligence that supersedes the rest of us mere mortals.

Not that long ago, when the world was supposedly FLAT, people defended that theory to the point where it jeopardized the lives of scientists looking to prove it wrong. It was the skeptics that held on for so long, because it threatened the integrity of Religion and control, that caused many deaths and created ridicule for those who sought to look outside of the box.

TO THE SKEPTICS, IF YOU WANT TO STUNT YOUR OWN GROWTH, BY ALL MEANS...CONTINUE ON YOUR PATH. BUT DON'T UNDERMINE THE EVOLUTION OF OTHERS BECAUSE YOUR PATHETIC IDEA OF REALITY IS DETERMINED BY YOUR OWN LIMITED AND OUTDATED KNOWLEDGE.

And believe me, many of the BELIEVERS out there are aware that there are people fabricating information just to get attention. We're not all sold on the idea that everything that flies in the sky is of an extra-terrestrial origin. The only people that you are protecting with your little attempts to debunk every situation is yourselves. In the end, you're only defending your OWN predisposed ideas as if there was never anything new that could be offered.

Its funny, because this quote comes directly from the movie THE MATRIX.

MANY ARE SO HOPELESSLY DEPENDENT ON THE SYSTEM THAT THEY WILL FIGHT TO PROTECT IT.

That's just a little bit of homegrown wisdom from Hollywood, and it sounds hauntingly like every self made expert/keyboard warrior/skeptic on ATS.

In the end...you have nothing to gain by destroying the ideas, beliefs, and dreams of others. You're actually only hurting yourselves.

It's hard to understand how someone so...spiritually attuned and evolved such as yourself can be so intolerant of how other people think. Maybe you'll find a real peace in yourself one day, when you realize what other people think doesn't matter. Good luck

[edit on 24-7-2009 by Lazyninja]

Originally posted by Lazyninja

Originally posted by EvolvedMinistry
I've went around many of these UFO rooms and conspiracy boards just to count the number of skeptics who maintain their ignorant little box of reality. I'd love to say that there's some originality in what they are doing, however, it all begins to equate to the same nonsense spewed from the mouths of the WEAK who insist on maintaining and controlling the perceptions of others.

Personally, I think its healthy to keep a skeptical mind when dealing with information that could easily be fabricated. However, when idiots like these troll the boards and put into question the experience, research, and hard work of people who have developed a lifetime of credibility (Buzz Aldrin, Edgar Mitchell, former Presidents, politicians, countless numbers of pilots, police officers, military personnel) then I have to question the credibility of the FOOLS who believe that they are qualified to debunk the evolutionary pioneers of our society.

Tell me...Who is going to have enough credibility for you people to finally accept that there are things going on that you are not aware of? Modern society hasn't been around that long. We, as an entire civilization, barely know (or don't know at all) what resides on the floors of our oceans because of pressure, and yet, THESE SELF MADE GENIUSES BELIEVE THAT THEY CAN POSTULATE AND DETERMINE WHAT DOES, OR DOES NOT EXIST IN THE INFINITY OF THE UNIVERSE. Do yourselves a favor and quit pretending like God has granted you intelligence that supersedes the rest of us mere mortals.

Not that long ago, when the world was supposedly FLAT, people defended that theory to the point where it jeopardized the lives of scientists looking to prove it wrong. It was the skeptics that held on for so long, because it threatened the integrity of Religion and control, that caused many deaths and created ridicule for those who sought to look outside of the box.

TO THE SKEPTICS, IF YOU WANT TO STUNT YOUR OWN GROWTH, BY ALL MEANS...CONTINUE ON YOUR PATH. BUT DON'T UNDERMINE THE EVOLUTION OF OTHERS BECAUSE YOUR PATHETIC IDEA OF REALITY IS DETERMINED BY YOUR OWN LIMITED AND OUTDATED KNOWLEDGE.

And believe me, many of the BELIEVERS out there are aware that there are people fabricating information just to get attention. We're not all sold on the idea that everything that flies in the sky is of an extra-terrestrial origin. The only people that you are protecting with your little attempts to debunk every situation is yourselves. In the end, you're only defending your OWN predisposed ideas as if there was never anything new that could be offered.

Its funny, because this quote comes directly from the movie THE MATRIX.

MANY ARE SO HOPELESSLY DEPENDENT ON THE SYSTEM THAT THEY WILL FIGHT TO PROTECT IT.

That's just a little bit of homegrown wisdom from Hollywood, and it sounds hauntingly like every self made expert/keyboard warrior/skeptic on ATS.

In the end...you have nothing to gain by destroying the ideas, beliefs, and dreams of others. You're actually only hurting yourselves.

It's hard to understand how someone so...spiritually attuned and evolved such as yourself can be so intolerant of how other people think. Maybe you'll find a real peace in yourself one day, when you realize what other people think doesn't matter. Good luck

[edit on 24-7-2009 by Lazyninja]

I like your approach. However, that was not the point of this post. It is not me who is being attacked, rather, the credibility of those who simply do not deserve the attacks.

Thank you for your post.

Since ufology was turned into a money making circus, you cannot blame people for being suspicious of greed in this day and age. People like Stephen Greer pimping ex army and navy people to make some bucks does not inspire belief in the cynical heart.

Luckily, our real pioneers such as Armstrong, Aldrin and to a lesser extent Mitchell have steered well clear of the ufology crowd. But that really is because they don't have anything to say about the alien situation aside from what their personal belief might be.

Originally posted by Lazyninja
Since ufology was turned into a money making circus, you cannot blame people for being suspicious of greed in this day and age. People like Stephen Greer pimping ex army and navy people to make some bucks does not inspire belief in the cynical heart.

Luckily, our real pioneers such as Armstrong, Aldrin and to a lesser extent Mitchell have steered well clear of the ufology crowd. But that really is because they don't have anything to say about the alien situation aside from what their personal belief might be.

Yeah...I'll entertain that. UFOlogy has definitely had its twists and turns with people looking to make a buck or capitalize off of people's belief system. Again, I'll reiterate that a healthy dose of skepticism is needed when determining fact from fiction. However, there is a big difference between skepticism and the debunking field, and unfortunately, it seems many debunkers mask themselves within the fine line of skepticism. I do agree with your statement.

Originally posted by Soylent Green Is People The blind believers outnumber the "good and thoughtful" skeptics by such high numbers that those skeptics quickly get a "beat down" by the blind believers on some threads, even when that skeptic brings up fair and valid points.

Then you should know how some of us feel on the other side of the fence

because..

The blind 'debunkers and trolls' far outnumber the "good and thoughtful" believers and researchers by such high numbers that those believers quickly get a "beat down" by the blind debunkers on some threads, even when that believer brings up fair and valid points.



So much so that at times one wonders "what's the point of posting?" and thus the trolls win

Yes...attack the ego. Excellent chess move. I like it, unfortunately, its pretty unoriginal. That usually is a person's last ditch effort before they start throwing punches. Just so you know, I didn't bring up the Shag Harbor case. That was done by another poster, therefore, the use of Kryptonite is ineffectual.

Yes, it was me, only you failed to notice it and it was the crux of the ponit i was making about how selective skeptics are in exactly the same way believers are, but in your headlong rush to promote your own view of the world you don;t notice such things... really does sum up your whole slap dash attitude up

Originally posted by zorgon
The blind 'debunkers and trolls' far outnumber the "good and thoughtful" believers and researchers by such high numbers that those believers quickly get a "beat down" by the blind debunkers on some threads, even when that believer brings up fair and valid points.

can I have some of what you're smoking? because believers are the vast majority on these forums, blind debunkers are not all that common, and skeptics are a moderate sized group.

Originally posted by JScytale blind debunkers are not all that common,

I have a list besides I said 'debunkers AND trolls" though I have difficulty discerning the difference at times

And right now all I have is Moroccan Mint tea... iced

Want some?




[edit on 24-7-2009 by zorgon]

reply to post by EvolvedMinistry

how many people have we condemned to prison on the pretense of being identified by an eyewitness?

I knew someone would say this; my first post, page 2, paragraph eight.

Fourth, personal testimonial is just not good evidence from a scientific standpoint. I’m sure someone will say “well you can be convicted of murder on the basis of personal testimonial” but that is law not science (is it even true anyway?!). Memory is just too susceptible to suggestion, bias etc to be reliable for this purpose.

It’s a fallacious argument.

You need a DEFINITIVE argument from which to attack. I claim no absolutes.

So what did you mean when you said;

when idiots like these troll the boards and put into question the experience, research, and hard work of people who have developed a lifetime of credibility (Buzz Aldrin, Edgar Mitchell, former Presidents, politicians, countless numbers of pilots, police officers, military personnel) then I have to question the credibility of the FOOLS
…
Who is going to have enough credibility for you people to finally accept that there are things going on that you are not aware of?


What does that mean if not “I believe what these people claim”? If you don’t believe then you’re calling yourself a fool.

So no you can’t just brush off my criticisms by moving the goal posts and changing what you claim to believe. You said that it was wrong to not believe these people, my criticisms on that stand; you also inferred an explanation from something you claim people are unaware of and my criticisms of that also stand. Your definition of an unreasonable sceptic as someone who doesn’t accept the supposed evidence referenced in your first post is fundamentally flawed.


[edit on 24-7-2009 by Mike_A]

What is this, the hundredth thread like this this summer.

Who flags this crap anyway? It's getting like being in a Kindergarten class around here. What part of debate and discussion is so hard to understand?

Debate is how you arrive at truth. Unless truth is not what you want? Do you want myth's and fabrications to fill in some void?

Skeptics are of equal importance in finding the truth. Skeptics are not trying to disprove anything. They are in fact trying to filter the truth from lies. Anyone who is not a Skeptic is helping to bury the truth under a mountain of lies and disinformation. In the end, these Skeptics are who will find the real facts and help get rid of the nonsense and pure fabrications.

People who don't realize this are propagandist's and disinfo-artist's best buddies in fact. You make their job's easy.

Originally posted by zorgon

And right now all I have is Moroccan Mint tea... iced

Want some?

[edit on 24-7-2009 by zorgon]

I'm working on my day off Got a bottle of Single Barrel you can email me?

Originally posted by Blaine91555
Who flags this crap anyway?

I would suspect that the very 'skeptics' that this thread is about flag it... for the same reason they are drawn in to these threads to state they are tired of these threads

Skeptics are not trying to disprove anything. They are in fact trying to filter the truth from lies.

True but not debunkers... they are on a mission

Here is a case in point... this 'debunkers very name is what he says in ever anomaly thread... he just felt the need to add this to the hot Mexican UFO thread

Originally posted by rocksarerocks
Yeah it's a real UFO, made by computers in a post production facility. Which is exactly why the entire planet doesn't give a crap about it.

THIS is the 'type' I can pull a few thousand such posts from 'regulars'


As to emailing that bottle If we could perfect that technology, neither of us would need to work



[edit on 24-7-2009 by zorgon]

reply to post by zorgon


No argument here. Also no flag here.

Of course we have to post. ATS would one boring place without it.

Yes, I'd like the patent on that technology.

Originally posted by Blaine91555
Yes, I'd like the patent on that technology.

Well see I been working on this other patent... kinda an outfit that internet surfers wear... then you can send a ZZZAPPPP to wake em up Of course it has other uses... but those will only make it more popular



On topic though... there are certain thread titles that will draw expected replies. So like dutiful sheep... they all come in eventually?

reply to post by EvolvedMinistry


Star & flag!

Skeptics are so prepared to fight to keep their Illusions alive

I sometimes wonder ...... are skeptics those people that are not capable nor willing to connected the dots? To gather ALL kind of info and just do not SEE the bigger picture?

Is it age? Culture? Ego? Fear?

Although I believe its a bit of everything, it doesn't matter realy. It's true every single Soul has to walk their own Path and carry their own Consiouness.

May the Light guide them well!

Originally posted by Lazyninja
Since ufology was turned into a money making circus, you cannot blame people for being suspicious of greed in this day and age. People like Stephen Greer pimping ex army and navy people to make some bucks does not inspire belief in the cynical heart.

Believe me, there's not a lot of money to be made with UFOs unless you can somehow form a cult, and that takes a lot of time. You can make a lot more money with an Oprah self-help book rather than a UFO book.

One of the reasons why the research in the UFO field is so lousy is that there's no money in it. If there was, we'd have the whole thing figured out in a week.

Umm...Yes.....I heard that this was the bash the debunkers thread....



While I do not agree with the "trolls" around here, skeptics are a positive in my eyes....helps us stick to the facts,be on our toes, and all that sort of stuff.

They are good for "us". Kinda like eating you green vegetables, nobody likes 'em, but ya gotta have'um.

S+F

reply to post by DoomsdayRex


did you miss the memo ?

if it wasnt for us ` evil skeptics ` - humanity would have " evolved " to the next level and raised our vibrations to the 5th dimensuion - so our benelolant space brothers would come and fix all our problems for us

reply to post by zorgon


I maintain it is my constitutionally protected, god given right to complain. Just as it is the OP's right to do the same.

OP, sorry, keep on rockin.

reply to post by EvolvedMinistry


EM, I try to look at issues case by case. Surely we've seen history made and then remolded in front of our eyes. Just because I'm not an expert doesn't preclude me from questioning experts. There were experts that said there were WMDs in Iraq if I remember correctly.

"It depends on what the meaning of the word 'is' is. If the--if he--if 'is' means is and never has been, that is not--that is one thing. If it means there is none, that was a completely true statement....Now, if someone had asked me on that day, are you having any kind of sexual relations with Ms. Lewinsky, that is, asked me a question in the present tense, I would have said no. And it would have been completely true." - former President Bill Clinton

Like the kids say, WTF?!? There's a "former Presidents" for you. Not that that's the best example but years from now, what will that story be? Maybe in 50 years, "Ms Lewinsky was like a daughter to President Clinton. She lit his cigars." History has been changed from the beginning of ..... history. There was a rather famous Catholic priest turned atheist, his name was Joseph Martin McCabe. He lived from 1867 to 1955 and so he was a rather modern man. Among his many accomplishments, he tracked ongoing changes in entries in both The Columbia Encyclopedia and the Encyclopedia Britannica. Essentially he compared later versions with earlier versions and found historical entries were rewritten, corrupted and entirely eliminated if they showed the Church in a historically bad light. The people in charge of those revisions were highly revered during that time, less than a century ago, and that didn't stop McCabe from questioning and rooting out their misdeeds. If they had done nothing, he would have found nothing. That was not the case. McCabe's an interesting figure, a skeptic and worth a look. Here's a link to one of his written works, he wrote nearly 250 books and countless articles and pamphlets.

The Columbia Encyclopedia's Crimes Against The Truth

You mention politicians, I'm rather sure you've seen the story from my home state of New Jersey today. Three mayors and five rabbis arrested for public corruption and money laundering.

New Jersey Mayors, Five Rabbis Arrested in Corruption Probe

These formerly respected and credible creeps were making a nice chunk of change encouraging hard up people to sell their organs among other scams. We just finished the Madoff deal where Senator Frank Lautenberg, NY Mets Owner Fred Wilpon, Steven Spielberg, Phyllis George, Sandy Koufax, Jeffrey Katzenberg and John Malkovich among many victims were not skeptical of the high yields they received on their investments. They would have been wise to question a man considered credible and an expert in his field by the nothing less than the US government. Oops! There are agendas in all fields of endeavor. There's much in the world to be skeptical of, the evidence is all around us. It's not everyone and everything. Buzz Aldrin? You can admire his accomplishments but that doesn't mean everyone has to agree with his quest for Mars. Is that the kind of thing that touched this off?

What is needed is "A healthy dose of skepticism" and not an overdose. Enough so that you aren't taken advantage of but not so much that it stifles you and everyone around you. That's just good for me though.

By the way Evolved, you're on ATS are you not skeptical of anything? Or do you just disagree with items others are skeptical over? Maybe you're just critical of those that are skeptical. I think you mentioned the Earth was thought of as flat in the past. I think you've got it twisted though. I think someone was skeptical of the Earth being flat. Where would we and Buzz Aldrin for that matter, be without that guy?