Skeptics who are skeptical just to maintain skepticism

reply to post by EvolvedMinistry




Wow, you really do wear your ignorance loud and proud don't you?

I put it to you that you are also a sceptic. Unless that is you believe in werewolves, fairies, father xmas, the tooth fairy, the inevitable spaghetti monster, trolls (actually, trolls are real, you're proof of that, laugh out loud), the Loch Ness monster, vampires and just about every folklore there is. If you don't believe in all of those you are also classed as a sceptic, if you do believe in all those things then see a doctor.

You seem to be obsessed with sceptics, do you have an inferiority complex or something? It doesn't seem natural. Also, because you base all your belief on heresay and testimony and do not even question what you hear I also say that you are a sheep, gullible enough to believe anything you are told.

Originally posted by DoomsdayRex
This is at least the third thread this week about the evils of skepticism. And that is not counting the threads that, while not necessarily about skepticism, take a swipe at it in the opening posts. How many do we really need? How does attacking skeptics with ad hominems advance our understanding of the UFO phenomenon?

It seems when redundant threads are created, the mods either close or merge them? Perhaps the same should be done here.

Thank you, exactly what I was thinking.
The thought that skepticism is an evil thing makes me laugh, actually.

reply to post by dna42

It's just attention seeking behaviour.

I don't know why we're even bothering to keep his thread alive.

I reckon the op's just laughing at us.

reply to post by EvolvedMinistry


I'm sorry to say that you are a deeply, deeply deluted and mislead human who has absolutely no grasp of reality whatsoever.

put into question the experience, research, and hard work of people who have developed a lifetime of credibility (Buzz Aldrin, Edgar Mitchell, former Presidents, politicians, countless numbers of pilots, police officers, military personnel

You can make that list 1000 names long if you wish, that doesn't make the assumption that there is alien life out there any more true. Absolutely nobody has come forward with hard evidence, I don't care how entertaining their story might be.

The only way in finding the truth is to question things down to the bottom of it and look at the facts.

Millions and millions of people believe in an invisible skygod watching over us, some of those believers call themselves christians, others muslims and so on...

But they believe. Faith is the belief in the absence of evidence.
If there's millions of people who believe they could fly like Superman I invite everybody of those to jump out the window of a skyscraper and see if gravity fails. See how many will jump. My guess is noone because they know perfectly well that adding some fairytales to reality doesn't alter reality in itself.

It is good that there is scepticism. Without it, we wouldn't have the great science we have nowadays. And scepticism has the nice side-effect of putting those off-key delusional freaks into their place to be laughted at.

The majority of people is sceptical about the existence of UFOs, at least to some point. Mind you, I'm not saying that they do not belief in the possibility that aliens fly around us but they are sceptical about it. As long as there is no hard evidence for the existence of such everybody with some common sense should be sceptical about it. It is completely moronic to just accept the claims of some persona who aren't falsifiable. That's what religion does, to control ignorant and weak-minded people. No thanks.

I'll stick to reality and to be able to grasp the beauty of reality in its entirety is the most awesome thing of all. I can still fantasize about visions I have but I would never claim them to be true unless I could prove it.

You can attack as many "sceptic" people as you want, it won't chance the fact that the public hasn't seen one solid piece of evidence to support such extraordinary claims.

I've said it before and I'll quote it again:

Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence (Carl Sagan)

Oh and by the way...writing in capital letters doesn't help the credibility along you know. It rather looks like you are very desperate to try and prove a point which wasn't even there in the first place.

I'll rest my case.

[edit on 24-7-2009 by dna42]

[edit on 24-7-2009 by dna42]

Just so I know what you're talking about, can you give an example of something the skeptical community is, um, skeptical about, but for which you have iron clad evidence?

ESP, Aliens, levitation, zero point energy..... The best one can say about these things is they haven't been disproven. But that's not the same as being able to provide evidence.

So let's hear it.

Watch the op blow up.....

Originally posted by Mike_A
reply to post by FireMoon

 

That is, they have no evidence at all to back any sort of claim that something strange didn't happened and is

That isn’t how it works; it is very difficult to prove something didn’t happen. The sceptical mind looks for evidence of something or the lack thereof and if evidence is found looks to see if it is flawed or not. If it is then the sceptic will point it out.

If there is nothing that points to a conclusion then there is nothing to say; and the fact that every “professional sceptic” wasn’t jumping onto the bandwagon in this particular case shows that they are not out to disagree for disagreements sake.

Typical patronising skeptic avoidance technique. The facts are reported by a number of witnesses but hey lets ignore that and talk about hypothetical issues that don;t involve you having to an inch from your completely close minded view of the world.. After all, mysterious lights disappearing into the sea leaving a yellow foam on the surface are an everyday event.. It would be pointless to investigate such a mundane happening as you obviously have the answer to such an obviously, everyday, event...

The vast majority of *unknowns* that have been solved , or shown to be hoaxes, were so, by people, who, on the whole, tend to believe that UFOs are, both real and belong to a technology that is not made by humans.

I’d very much like to see the statistical analyses that lead you to that conclusion.

Try actually reading a few UFO bookws then or is that beneath your vast intellect or do you have a problem with reading, judging by your arrogance one can only draw the conclusion you already know the contents of any book before you even read it..

their own particular prejudices.

This is the problem; scepticism has nothing to do with prejudice.

Yes it does and your arrogant and illogical rants only serve to prove how many of your sort spend much of their time with your head so far up your own jacksie your view of life is blocked , partially by the sight of the back of your own teeth.

The Shag Harbour documentaries are , pretty much, free of the usual talking heads you find in such programmes which, pretty much, negates the point you were trying to make..

No it proves what I am saying. If these people were out to debunk anything and everything then they would make up whatever rubbish they need to do so but they don’t, they are content to take the logical position and say “I don’t know”. If they don’t know one way or the other then what are they going to comment on? It doesn’t mean they think aliens crashed there and are sat at home saying “damn, I look foolish now it’s so obvious aliens are flying around and crashing into our harbours! Damn those believers, they were right all along!”


No it doesn't, it proves my point that the moment certain incidents are mentinoed the skeptics vanish, but then again, you didn't actually read my post did you? Because, like so many of your kind, you already knew what I'd said before you bothered to read it... Your arrogance is only equalled by your utter ignorance..
[

[edit on 24-7-2009 by FireMoon]

[edit on 24-7-2009 by FireMoon]

The first sign of insecurity in ones own intellect is the SHOUTING of words in the futile hope that they will somehow give their flagging argument more gravity.

I find it curious that most of these skeptic bashing threads come from new members with no established network of friends on the board. Lone gunmen that think they are saving the day by shooting verbal buckshot at illusory villains... Burning with an intense need to be someones hero... a front line soldier of UFOlogy.

Sure made me giggle!

IRM

[edit on 24/7/09 by InfaRedMan]

reply to post by EvolvedMinistry


Well, I'm a skeptical believer. By that I mean I want to believe and I think I do believe, but I will usually dismiss *most* of the images and footage I see because the vast majority of it can be explained by naturally occuring, though often rare, physical phenomena.

Now, as you painstakingly pointed out, yes there are people who will be skeptical for the sake of it and will just naysay anything to be obstinant. To that I'd say, ignore them.

But I would also say make sure you do *everything* you can to logically and rationally analyse your data to eliminate as many possible and likely probably natural phenomena before your 'believer' state-of-mind kicks in.

Just as you deride the skeptics for being intentionally skeptical, being a non-skeptical believer is just as bad. By accepting things too readily and shouting, "They're here, they're here!" from the roof tops when you see a blurry blob of light on a jpg isn't going to help our cause at all.

For the masses to take us and the 'phenomena' seriously, rational, logical and common sense analysis needs to be done. And if you already believe what you're looking at is alien or a UFO...well, guess what the analysis of your data is going to point towards?



[edit on 24-7-2009 by noonebutme]

reply to post by EvolvedMinistry
There are times when ATS is like a petrie dish for the combined consciousness of single-celled organisms.

The 'true believers' want to live in a world of reptilians, alien agreements with shadow Govts and an Earth slap bang in the center of a galactic superhighway. WTF!? Apparently, we're all created by these aliens...some are real good and cry themselves to sleep as they look at what their 'children' are doing to their world. Some are real bad and eat our children in underground bases. The good aliens leave us post-its in farmer's fields that we can't read. Landing lights are really UFOs. Leaders are really reptilians. Real life is a hologram. Freedom is really slavery to aliens and NWO. They want to give us free energy and 'give' us world peace, but can't unless the US Govt will 'disclose.'

How do they know all this?
What is the source?
How credible is the source?
Do the ideas stand scrutiny.
Is the claimant reputable?
Do the documents have provenance?
Were other witnesses present?
Is there any other supporting evidence?
Is it a lens artifact?
Is the area on an airport flight path?
Were any astronomical causes ruled out?
Was Venus or any other planet present in the field of view?
Can satellites or the ISS be ruled out?
Is it pixellation or processing error?
Can photoshop be dismissed?
Is it possibly CGI?

These are the kind of questions that go through a skeptic's mind. They're all fair and reasonable questions that need answering. I can count on three fingers the number of skeptics in this section that appear somewhat fixated on discounting everything.

Skeptics aren't the enemy, they represent an ideal of neutrality...naturally, we all fall short of our ideals from time to time. The worst thing in UFOs is the BS merchants that sell people dreams. It's to those people that the questions above are directed. Schneider, Knell, Salas, Goodchild, Peckman, Greer, Doty and dozens of others bring the whole subject into ridicule.

The ATS skeptics are the BS Detectors for the intellectually lazy and those that are still cutting their teeth on the subject.

As a rational skeptic...here's a little secret that all good skeptics know.... You can accept the reality of UFOs without believing that EVERYTHING must be a UFO.


reply to post by InfaRedMan
WELL SAID IRM! SHOUTING ADDS TRUTH TO EVERYTHING...AND EXCLAMATION MARKS!HAHA!!!

[edit on 24-7-2009 by Kandinsky]

Originally posted by EvolvedMinistry
I've went around many of these UFO rooms and conspiracy boards just to count the number of skeptics who maintain their ignorant little box of reality. I'd love to say that there's some originality in what they are doing, however, it all begins to equate to the same nonsense spewed from the mouths of the WEAK who insist on maintaining and controlling the perceptions of others...

In response to the whole post:

I think UFOs are based upon urban legends, which man has replaced witches with aliens. If we all accepted the currently available evidence of UFOs, we would have to be locked up in an asylum. Many people have a hard time believing mankind could have made the pyramids; however, the evidence shows that in FACT we did make them. We don't give our species enough credit. Weakness is for those who do not cognitively analyze information. Most of the evidence that support UFOs is overblown, for it has been influenced by pop culture.

Burn all the skeptics! Skeptics are the enemies! They are eeeviiiil! They can think! They will doom us all!!
Hurry. There isn't much time!

Flat earth theory was disproved thanks to skepticism.

The kid obviously doesn't know what skepticism means..

I certainly don't care for guys on TV with glasses thicker than coke bottles preaching about a "trained observer" is, when the only "trained observer" he is probably going to ever find is the seeing eye dog he's going to need in a few more years. You haven't seen a UFO? When was the last time you saw your feet?

That kind of guy is annoying. I dislike that stuff.

But I love love love the "skeptics" who come with logical and understandable responses. Someone posts a video, and someone comes along and shows the truth about it. Someone posts something that is 1 sided and edited to appear in a certain way, and someone else comes along and shows the other sides of the image. I am extremely thankful for all those things.

I think ET's exist, and have more than likely visited from time to time. But that in no way validates all the claims people make. Maybe there are some genuine things, never know unless you clear away all the BS, and "skeptics" help make that happen.

I believe in UFO's/ET's. But I do not believe everything people say about them. Big difference.

As even George Carlin would say - "Never forget Proverbs".

Proverbs 9

6Forsake the foolish, and live; and go in the way of understanding.

7He that reproveth a scorner getteth to himself shame: and he that rebuketh a wicked man getteth himself a blot.

8Reprove not a scorner, lest he hate thee: rebuke a wise man, and he will love thee.

9Give instruction to a wise man, and he will be yet wiser: teach a just man, and he will increase in learning.

[edit on 7/24/2009 by badmedia]

I cant believe the replies this thread has mustered... FRONT PAGE!

my goodness, for a first thread hes having some success. Though, it is one of the most retarded threads iv ever seen.

The skeptic argument has been done again and again on ATS, and your not contributing very much with your newbie outlook on how the forum functions. Rack up some points and then I'll credit you.

So, if this is the question: "Tell me...Who is going to have enough credibility for you people to finally accept that there are things going on that you are not aware of?"
My answer: nobody, unless they kindly back up their claims with some scientific evidence that actually proves something as opposed to a lot of pseudo-scientific paranoid baloney.
Smart folks don't believe things because they come from people they respect/love, that's fanaticism. Mature people begin to understand this from the moment they realize there's no Santa Claus. Finally learning that the North Pole is really only a big ice sheet doesn't make your parents less worthy of respect or love, rather it engenders an understanding in the fallibility of people, and a great respect for facts, and evidence. So, let's see some, fuzzy pictures will never, ever get it done.

reply to post by FireMoon

Typical patronising skeptic avoidance technique. The facts are reported by a number of witnesses but hey lets ignore that and talk about hypothetical issues that don;t involve you having to an inch from your completely close minded view of the world.. After all, mysterious lights disappearing into the sea leaving a yellow foam on the surface are an everyday event.. It would be pointless to investigate such a mundane happening as you obviously have the answer to such an obviously, everyday, event...

I think this betrays the reason for your misunderstanding; it sounds like this is an ideological issue for you and not a simple methodological one. You seem to be under the impression that sceptical people are out to disprove the existence of aliens on Earth but that’s not really true; if they do that is only incidental. All a sceptic wants to do is get to the truth and to do that s/he must pick apart all of the evidence to determine its validity before drawing a conclusion. However sometimes a conclusion cannot be drawn beyond saying “something that I don’t understand happened”. In those cases they won’t have much to contribute; therefore the lack of a sceptical viewpoint is not validation of the opposite viewpoint. What would it prove if a well known sceptic appeared on a documentary about Shag Harbour and said “I don’t know what happened”?

I’m not saying that there are cases where there is little sceptical input but I am saying that the reason for this is not as significant as you are inferring it is.

With regards to Shag Harbour specifically, something with flashing lights and yellow foam? Why connect that to aliens and not one of the many, much more mundane but much more likely explanations of a secret aircraft, a missile, a satellite, etc?

As I have already said the sceptics don’t deal with this because you simply cannot draw any conclusion; they can’t say nothing happened, they wouldn’t and they don’t. That doesn’t equate to aliens having crashed.


Btw, there is no need to get so angry or offensive.

Amen,brother you just said everything i wanted to say it"s sad really
i really don"t understand why there waisting their time here.Why even look for sites like these when youre mind is already made.I have no time for em all they do is keep society in its same old circle of religion and power.I really hope the rest of the world wakes up.

Don't you understand that without skeptics nothing would actually be proven? There needs to be people who step back using logic to actuall be critical of wild and mostly unproven claims of people. Do you really want to live in a world where people go around accepting anything and everything? Maybe if you want to be taken advantage of on a daily basis.

Maybe you are young or are just very nieve but PEOPLE LIE!!!! There are many reasons attention, money, fame, jealousy, boredom, etc. People can also be plain mistaken in what they saw. It happens all the time.

Last night I saw bigfoot get out of a ufo carrying a chubacabra being chased by men in black. The government agents were just about to catch him when John titor showed up and whisked him away with his time machine. As they disappeared I heard Titor yell Something about needing a bigfoot to operate an IBM 5100. I was even able to snap some out of focus pictures....but i'll upload them later....

What you don't believe me???????? You're skeptical!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!

Well then you are just "stuck in the matrix" and a stupid close minded person. People like you drive me crazy you're so dumb how can you not believe me? But I was there I saw it!

I think there are two problems to the whole UFO scenario.

1. Extreme believers. Those that take the extra terrestrial/ "alien" life as some sort of religious setting. Where they attribute everything to them. (the way some religions attribute everything to "God") The good, bad and indifferent. Some believe they inserted the human here on earth. Some believe they control events behind the scenes, and some believe they will save us from devastation caused by ourselves, and some even believe they are here to harvest our souls... There is the benevolent, the malevolent, the god like alien and the robot like greys that carry out the menial tasks. Usually with these types of "believers" a moderate approach to the subject gives way to extreme views, and their opinions are usually formed by others' story with no evidence of their claims. Just strict and blind faith.

Besides there being not much evidence for any of that, there is not much evidence that any alien/ extra terrestrial being has ever been here. That is just the truth. That does not mean U.F.O.s are all man made and/ or a natural phenomena. But it would help drastically for the extreme believers to keep their opinions to themselves and/or take a more moderate approach.

2. Those that have looked into the subject, and encounter the extreme believers (mentioned above) or, not found the good cases that require extra attention and a good investigation. Therefore without thinking or acknowledging the fact something occured and they simply dont understand it, they just like to write it off as natural or secret man made craft without further investigation. These are the ignorant few that like to label the whole thing a hoax and think of themselves as smarter than the rest of the believing U.F.O. crowd.

Neither recognize the scientific method. And that is the real problem, both sides reject the scientific method and therefore most of the scientific community ignores the role they should be playing. And in my opinion, that should be the goal here. To have the entire scientific community recognize the topic as an important step in the evolution of human technology and perhaps spirituality.

Once we get the scientific community on board, I would not be surprised to see real acknowledgement by heads of state and governments alike. Therefore, forcing them to reveal any information they may have gathered.

....

Hasn't it occurred to any debunkers/naysayers that
there may very well be a fair and logical reason
that threads like this one occur again and again?

One main problem here is the issue of debunkers/naysayers,
falsely claiming to be skeptics.

Another problem with debunkers/naysayers is that
they are seldom willing to debate on topic.

They usually only seek to zealously impose their own
personal limited understanding and logic upon others.

The problem of the debunker/naysayer is that he is not
willing to acknowledge alternative viewpoints and logic,
not even just for the sake of discussion and mutual engagement.

The biggest problem however is that the debunker/naysayer
is unable to tune in, into the feelings and thoughts of others.

He is unable to share personal opinion, in a mutual respectful way.

Whatever may exist beyond the limited periphery of
the naysayer/debunker MUST be violently opposed.

As ATS is a DISCUSSION forum, it works as a great RED flag
to see certain people being zealously occupied with
how and what other people choose to believe/know/feel?

What's up with this "thought-police" stance?

Most people come here to read, write and share according to
their own experience, as people tend to do in 'free' societies.

Debunkers/naysayers seek to create 'us' and 'them' polarity.

They team up like packs of wolves, claiming they are all 'friends'.

Very fishy indeed.

...
..
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[edit on 24-7-2009 by Sol12]