Jewish family: Germany officer spat on our passports

reply to post by Laurauk

The dudes wife is the granddaughter of aholocaust survivor, any hands gestures such as this would have brought back horrors to her.

What horrors did she endure that were brought back to her, was she a holocaust survivor ? What happened to her ancestor happened to her ancestor, not her.

Oh I suppose the witness who saw this also is a liar too eh.

I guess we'll have to wait until we actually hear from the witness before we know the answer to that question, as i don't see a statement from the witness in the article just their referrence to him.

Just been checking all the major newspapers here in Germany and I can find no mention what soever about this alleged occurance.

reply to post by savetimerushonline

I agree, but this wasn't a cop, this was a Border Officer at an airport in Germany.

Sometimes in Germany, it is the police that work the passport control at airports. One time I flew to Hungary and my passport was check by the police. Last November, when I came back to Germany from America, a cop checked my passport as well.

For all those saying this can't be true because the mainstream German media isn't reporting it, perhaps you should take a step back. Everyday all across the "Fatherland" there are crimes perpetrated against people of backgrounds other than German. Think of how often the Turks and Russians that are here get mistreated and it goes unheard of. Recently, a friend of mine from America was visiting me. We were in the train station in Bielefeld when we spotted Nazis [combat boots and all]. Though he doesn't speak a word of German, I had to, for our safety, start talking to him in German so that they wouldn't come and give us a hard time. Once, I saw a flyer at a bus stop here in my town telling all the foreigners to get out!

Anyway, what I'm getting at is that things like this are done throughout Germany regularly. So, don't expect the media to cover it all the time.

reply to post by mattpryor

Six people contacted a (independent, privately run) newspaper claiming that a border guard spat on their passports.

Is there another article that i missed linked somewhere, because the one i see in the OP just says that the husband contacted the radio station. It also says the agent spat on the wife's passport, if you have an article that shows more poeple were involved can you please post a link ?

reply to post by Fett Pinkus


Although less grand in scope, I hope this isn't just another incident similar to the woman who told the antisemitic story that shocked France, about being attacked by six North African Arabs who drew swastikas all over her.

I guess we'll wait and see. I mean after reading about that ladies outlandish claim no one should be stupid enough to try and make such a politically motivated, racially inciting move and risk being made the fool or responsible for the possible harm to others in retaliation to such a bogus claim.

No wait...Ashley Todd carved an upside down "B" into her own face.

I guess anything goes.

- Lee

Originally posted by mattpryor
By the way I agreed with you about Prince Charles. I think he's a top bloke. I'm not your enemy.

I agree, we're not at war, and Charles is the don. However:

Originally posted by mattpryorBut please apply some self criticism here.

Six people contacted a (independent, privately run) newspaper claiming that a border guard spat on their passports.

Okay, do we think this is likely? I have been to Germany many a time, and while not Jewish, I have seen nothing but consummate professionalism from their border guards and police.

Originally posted by mattpryor My instinctive reaction is to think that that's a pretty awful thing to do to a fellow human being, regardless of their religion, ethnicity or country of origin. It's also hardly the way a government official of a civilized nation should behave and deserves investigation.

Yes, it would be a pretty awful thing to do, which is why it has been claimed. It's unverifiable, inflammatory and deliberately vague, but specific enough so that people like yourself will automatically side with the "aggrieved" party.

Originally posted by mattpryorDid the border guard's actions have anything to do with the Nazis, Germany or the holocaust? Probably not. He's probably just another guy who's convinced himself that all Israelis are evil. There are plenty of those around.

I agree completely. None of this is anything to do with the Holocaust, but the way the article has been worded implies that it was. Such weighted language is obviously an attempt to sway the audience to one side, rather than give an impartial report of the events.

Originally posted by mattpryorHowever, it is understandable that a relative of a holocaust survivor would make such associations.

Only if her culture won't let the damn thing go.

My grandfather was a black man from St Helena (a small island off the coast of Africa, famous for being Napoleon's place of exile). Its highly likely his father, or grandfather, was a slave. Did he ever mention it? Did he ever bleat on about an event that never took place within his lifetime? Did he even complain about the racial problems a black man and white woman living on a British council estate in the sixties had?

Of course not, because he was not looking for undeserved sympathy to further a different cause.

Originally posted by mattpryorAs for why this wasn't run by the BBC, why would the BBC be interested in a small story about something that happened to foreign nationals in a foreign country? It's hardly a worldwide headline grabber is it?

Well, they did have a headline about Nazi gnomes. It isn't just a local site, it does cater for world news.

Originally posted by mattpryorAnd yes, assuming that someone would make a claim like this so that a newspaper would print it so that people would feel sorry for them so that people would be more sympathetic to Israel's foreign and domestic policies is rather far-fetched.

I don't see why. It's called viral propaganda - its a small thing that worms its way around the mainstream, until everyone knows of the case of "such and such" even though it wasn't really a big deal.

Let's rewrite this to fit the facts: Two Jewish adults claim, without any concrete evidence or witnesses, to have been mistreated by a German border guard. The article reporting this claim provides a framework for the case to be untraceable and for the guard to be unprosecutable (because there were no witnesses except this one witness who wasn't described at all).

It uses crass stereotypes and obviously planted pieces of information:

An attractive, young, family-oriented Jewish couple (aka the model family).
The "fact" they went through Germany because it was the cheapest option (the penny-pinching Jew stereotype).
The brilliant statement "he had a haircut like Hitler" (wonderfully introducing the Jew's own Antichrist into a story that has NOTHING TO DO with Naziism or Hitler).
Managing to introduce the Holocaust into a situation that had nothing to do with the Holocaust (with a family who had probably never been to Germany before, let alone been near a concentration camp).
Only one of the German border guards did this - what were the others doing? Who else was in the situation? Where were they? Why don't we see the CCTV footage of this abuse (which they undoubtably have on border crossings)? Why is there a complete and abject lack of witnesses?
"When he saw that my wife's passport is from Israel, he spat on it and didn't let us pass, saying that she has overstayed her visit in France" - wait, France? Doesn't he mean Germany?
They deliberately did not raise a fuss about this issue. Do we think the German authorities, in a coutry where giving the Nazi salute is punishable by jail time, would do nothing about this case?!
They managed to encounter "anti semitism" in France a lot, apparently, which just makes the case all the more "harrowing".
Contradictions within the article itself: "But I will not keep quiet about something like this. We will put this officer on trial, even if I need to stand before him. I can't forget his face. He had a haircut like Hitler," said Michael" - despite the fact you were pretty damn quiet when you could have just alerted the authorities when it was, you know, actually going on.

I'm sorry, but the whole thing just stinks of bullcrap.

Posts like this always make me so damn sad!

There is a reason why: anti semitism is reported in peculiar ways around the world, and that is to bring all of the stray jews of the world home to Israel!

I'm not against the homecoming of the tribes, but I'm disgusted with the highly manipulative way of doing this! - people are not that stupid! not even jews!

B'Shalom!

Originally posted by Fett Pinkus
reply to post by mattpryor

 

Its actually storys like this that lead to antisemitism. What do the jews expect when stuff like this gets printed?

You have to be careful here since it's not THE JEWS making up this story, but it's one Jewish publication. I'm from Germany and just as much as you couldn't blame me if any German ever did this thing being described in the article, you also can't blame all Jews if this Jewish publication invented the story.

reply to post by ohioriver


The whole world as in me as well, as your suggesting?

I do know what is going on in Palenstine, I do know they are being held hostage, within thier own state. I do know that Israel is withholding Aid being sent from other countries to palenstine. Do you want me to continue?

There are both sides of the argument with regards to this. That is not the topic of doscussion of this thread.

One minute I am being accused of having a personal problemwith Israel, when I ciriticise them for thier actions with regards to journalists and thier prisons, the next I am being accused of having a problem when I defend jewish people for having thier belongings spat on etc, cannot win either way. Typical of ATS.

reply to post by Laurauk


I wouldn't worry about it - most people try to categorise others as having extreme, black or white views because that makes them easier to concieve of and understand. Obviously, people aren't simply black and white in their motives and emotions, but this would require a long, intensive debate to really get the point across, so it's abandoned for "headline" views to quickly make the point.

reply to post by The Last Man on Earth

Only if her culture won't let the damn thing go.

My grandfather was a black man from St Helena (a small island off the coast of Africa, famous for being Napoleon's place of exile). Its highly likely his father, or grandfather, was a slave. Did he ever mention it? Did he ever bleat on about an event that never took place within his lifetime? Did he even complain about the racial problems a black man and white woman living on a British council estate in the sixties had?

Without wishing to in any way diminish the horrors of slavery, the West abolished African slavery a long time ago and there is no desire to restart it.

However there is no shortage of people calling for another holocaust. There were no shortage of people screaming "get back in the ovens" during anti-Israel demonsrtations during Operation Cast Lead. Do you want me to post a youtube link? There are no shortage of people that say "Hitler should have finished the job". I've heard sentiments like that myself, in pubs in Britain.

If I were Jewish I'd be paranoid as hell. Telling them to "get over it" does not deal with the reality of the situation.

reply to post by savetimerushonline


If this is true, then it's very bad.

However do you think there would be the same reaction if this had happened to muslims?

Would you be making such a fuss if this had happened to muslims?

Also since when was Obama a muslim? Do you have any proof of that please? If he is a muslim........so what?

reply to post by The Last Man on Earth


Oh do not wory, I am not worried, if they do not like my opinion or point of view tuff. I could care less..

Horrible. Cops are becoming way too much out of accountability for the crimes and abuse they do. There was a time when the mainstream media at least had the guts to point the fingers at the pigs and deface them, but now it's no longer like this... Now fascism is coming back in power, and people are mostly unprotected against it.

Here we have the proof of how Nazism was sadly not defeated, Germany was. Nazism is now winning over the governments of the Western world. The people have to unite and organize against this or the mass graves are waiting for all of the "inferiors". The monopoly of the police seems to be the key element of all this. Once we make them lose power over everyday life, they will withdraw out of fear for their lives.



[edit on 23/7/09 by Echtelion]

Originally posted by Kram09
reply to post by savetimerushonline

 

If this is true, then it's very bad.

However do you think there would be the same reaction if this had happened to muslims?

Would you be making such a fuss if this had happened to muslims?

Yes, I would. Treating anyone with a lack of dignity and respect is disgusting and should be stamped out, as I said earlier regardless of race, religion or nationality.

Some perspective on the story:

"When he saw that my wife's passport is from Israel, he spat on it and didn't let us pass, saying that she has overstayed her visit in France," said Michael.

SHE OVERSTAYED HER VISA

That makes her a criminal. It's a serious crime, no matter where in the world you are. She would not have had to pass through passport control between France and Germany, but would have at the international exit point - so this guy was well within his rights to stop and interrogate them.

And the evil, nasty, neo-nazi ...let her and her family go, instead of arresting them and returning them to France in custody to pay the heavy fines, deal with the courts, and possible jail time.

Now why would he do that?

Here's what I see: He probably sneezed on one of the passports accidentally, and made a lighthearted joke about the firing squad when they were crapping their drawers at the prospect of being sent back to France to face the music... and then sent them on their way, because he's just a nice guy and could see it was a mistake, and they seem like a decent family, and so on.

I'm sure he won't make that mistake again. Hopefully they DO take him to court... where I'm sure the authorities will do their best to nail this woman for overstaying her visa. 10 years barred from entering the EU is the going rate, I think. The stamps will be in her passport...

Originally posted by The Last Man on Earth
reply to post by Laurauk

 

I wouldn't worry about it - most people try to categorise others as having extreme, black or white views because that makes them easier to concieve of and understand.

Yes! sorry! but for the love of a God? or whatever! I love America in so many different and peculiar ways!

But what I don't love about America in general, is that too many want to see the world in black or white only!

It's like there's no different shades of gray in between that are allowed! just black or white! no compromises! - just the good guys & the bad guys!?

The world doesn't function like that! when will you ever learn?

Americans in general has a short sighted linear way of thinking, that is more & less out of phase with reality.

The rest of the world stays with a more dynamic non-linear way of thinking (see Asian countries for a great example) the old world way.

So who are now stopping progress for all mankind? - who are the true conservatives?

When is the lunacy about to stop? - I'm afraid, you guys will implode from within!


[edit on 23-7-2009 by Chevalerous]

reply to post by vox2442


But vox2442... that can't be! It can't be that simple! A genuine mistake made and someone else interpreting it wrong and decided to get snippy about it? Impossible!

No, I agree with you, vox2442. This is kind of what I thought initially. I wasn't aware of the woman staying beyond the time constraint of her visa, which does change the perspective on this. Hmm. Interesting.

This whole thread of replies to the original post with few exceptions is sad...the ugly attitude oozing out of the posts should astonish me but it sadly doesn't....when it comes to Jews people just love to pile on....but the protest I find the funniest are those that complain that somehow in Germany " this would have made the front page" because its verbotten to act the way the officer as reported to have acted....please....sorry but the German press is just as crappy as the American press... If you think that the German people are not lied to with the same frequency by their corporate media that Americans are...well continue to wear your Euro rose colored glasses...and if you think that anti-semitism is dead in Deutchland I have a bridge in Brooklyn I'd be happy to sell you...