Egyptian Treasures in the Grand Canyon

reply to post by acrux


"In response to the "off limits" areas of the Grand Canyon, that's a big
10-4 , I worked there the summer of 1978, and even back then there were places even employees could not go. There were also some pretty cool places that only employees could go. However , Isis Temple was not on the employee only list back then. I have experienced "missing time" at the Canyon, but more importantly, I have experienced spans of total universal conscienceness(sp), at Supai, up on the Red Wall. It is definately a unique place on this planet !! *snip* Tony Sousa'"

This was the last post in that thread, which was not the first thread on this subject to show up on this board.

It has been beatten to death with both sides agreeing to disagree... no resolution.

And, with statements like the one above made by an anomynous poster being plentyfull, we have no choice but to continue disagreeing.

reply to post by fraterormus


Cool link, I found something interesting if a little off topic in that link to the Arizona catacombs:

On the walls are drawings of animals, including a huge centipede, and human footprints and "stick men" figures.

So the huge centipedes were around back then. I've known two people who saw them in the Page Springs/Cornville area. One ran from it(probably what I would do), the other chopped it up with a machete.

This story intrigued me when I came across it a few years ago. So easy to debunk - the OS is full of inconsistencies - yet there's just enough that it might be true. Without exploring every inch of the Canyon it would be hard to know for sure.

I wouldn't be surprised if it were true. I've also heard - obviously no proof, just heard - that some ruins in Sedona have Mongolian type characters in the glyphs. There's strange stuff everywhere, it seems.

I was prompted to touch on that period of time when we were nearly wiped out. It has importance in the fact that possibly the biblical event of Noah's time was true. How is that for eye opening?

I know they try to find ways to talk around that fact not being as the Bible records those events of world wide magnitude to have been, but it does leave the door wide open for further thought and meditation.

Civilization at the time of Noah was world wide and the flood was world wide according to the bible.

There are just too many un-answered questions, in order for me to believe the status quoe.

I have not drawn these conclusions from reading other people's books. I have no idea about what Stichin and others like him have written. I believe they have drawn similar conclusions to what answers I have come up with during my research and meditation.

Originally posted by win 52
Civilization at the time of Noah was world wide and the flood was world wide according to the bible.

According to the Bible, Noah gathered two of every single type of creature on the Earth, somehow determining the sexes of every last gnat and fruit fly.

Somehow this Ark was not only large enough to accomodate for two of every single type of creature on Earth, but also large enough to hold food and water for 40 days and 40 nights. During this time no animals ate one another or else some of God's creations would have been murdered and made extinct.

It's a nice story, and so are alot of them. But I wouldn't base science on it.

reply to post by Kandinsky


You say there is no evidence of Egyptians crossing the ocean and that there journeyes are recorded so a journey to America most have been recorded to...Is it not possible the records are lost...Take the Great Pyramid for example we know the Egyptians built them but there is no smokeing gun...no records from the master builder...so one would have to say they are lost along with many other records from that time. But it does not mean that it never happend.

reply to post by jammer2012
Hiya Jammer,
It's impossible to completely rule out an Egyptian trans-oceanic journey...it's just very, very unlikely. They didn't have the ships that were capable of long oceanic journeys (source ). The only suggestion that there was any contact with S America is the 'coc aine mummies' and there's a number of reasons why those results aren't accepted. By the time the Egyptians had the ability to build ocean-going vessels, they were in decline. The Greeks and Phoenicians were running the Delta.

In terms of the story (ignoring it's faults) I have to wonder why an Egyptian voyage would set sail to a land that was unmapped and historically unknown? Why wasn't that knowledge known by the superior sailors of Phoenicia? Why would they load up many tons of what they considered sacred and take the chance of sailing into the unknown? The Egyptians were wholly focused on afterlife and that was reliant on a correct burial. A watery grave would prevent their ascension.

The earliest, known for fact, visitors to the Americas were the N European Norse. I can, at a big stretch, imagine an Egyptian ship somehow drifting and reaching America. That they happened to have at least a tombs worth of grave goods, mummies and a few stone masons and artists aboard? That they sailed up the canyon, scaled it and stashed everything for an anonymous man to find? Anyone has to admit it's not likely at all.

Whoops...edit to add a good site about Egyptian ships etc...good link

[edit on 12-8-2009 by Kandinsky]

reply to post by BaronVonGodzilla


That may be fine and dandy, and can fit nicely into your perception of what may have happened. I suspect the actual event was no where near what is recorded. There is no evidence either way.

I estimate the actual event was several thousand years before the record was made. Actual facts may vary from the report.

We do know humanity has recovered from near extinction, a few thousand years ago. The report in the bible is the only surviving human record of a near extinction of humans on this planet.

My question is, how did they come up with this fact a couple of thousand years ago? As was recorded in the bible. Science has been scoffing at the biblical record for centurys. Now science has proven humanity was reduced to only a few members, say 10,000 years ago, or so.

Your scientific aproach leaves lots of room for interpretation.

I am not a bible thumper, just using the text for information. It seems as good or better than anything science can come up with so far. The biblical record is easier to accept than primordial ooze.

reply to post by win 52
Fair play. The Bible version of events is way simpler than the science version with all those damn details. As a wee kid, I had a book...'365 Bible Stories (illustrated).' That Creation story and the Adventures of Noah were about 3 pages max.

I intended to be sarcastic but I've come over all nostalgic for that old book Daniel and the Lions...great stuff.

OK, heres why the story is BS,


not only did the egyptians have to make it to north america in the first place, they also had to make it to the pacific ocean, cause thats the only way to get into the colorado river basin. So either they made it 3/4 of the way around the planet to enter fromthe pacific, or they made it around the cape, or they hauled all that stuff all the way across the isthmus of panama through the jungles. Yah right.
Or they had to drag all that stuff halfway across a continent that was already well populated with people, people that didnt necesarily take well to strange people crossing their lands.
And as far as "forbiden areas" in the grand canyon thats bs as well, the only areas with restricted access are indian tribal lands, otherwise just get a wilderness permit and you can go where ever you want.

A few years ago, a frenchmen body floated the length of the colorado river, it was quite the amazing feat, no "forbidden areas" were encountered.

reply to post by punkinworks
But, but...but Punkin, Sir? Are you trying to say it 'couldn't' have happened?! Can you prove it?

reply to post by Kandinsky


That is a very good point and thanks for the links.I would have to agree that the journey to America then to travel across the us is a big stretch.But the coc aine in the mummies has me still scratching my head Is there a possibility that the peoples of south America made there way to Africa and had brought with them coc aine and tobacco.

reply to post by jammer2012
I put a couple of good links on page one about the coc aine and nicotine. The nicotine is fairly straightforward as it was found in levels that a lot people get from their diet. The anti--tobacco organizations never mention 'dietary nicotine.' Common eggplant (a staple in Africa, India, China etc) was a big food source in Egypt, it's even on some decorations from the period.

The coc aine is a two-fold explanation. Firstly, studies on mummies that have been directly analyzed from samples taken at the site of burial have found no coc aine at all. Secondly, it was always unlikely because there aren't other things to support the idea of trade or contact between Egypt and S. America at that time. Don't forget S. America was unknown until the 15th Century.

Another thing to consider is the organization, power and money it took for those first expeditions to find a 'new world.' Vast resources and look at the bragging rights the Portuguese and Spanish got out of it! They were broadcasting their new found lands, setting up protection of sea routes and exploiting the hell of the place ASAP. If Greeks, Romans or Egyptians got there, they'd do the same thing. Political glory and power + gold

Now as far as treasure goes, stories abound about lost treasure in the four corners area and the southwest. One story that has been absorbed by the lost dutchman mine legend is that of a stash of gold coins and objects hidden in the desert.
Another verified story, one that im trying to find some online reference to, is one of a stash of treasure near present day Las Vegas, a days drive from any way.
There was a tv documentary about it 30 years ago.

Any way, a guy found a stash of coins and jewels in the desert near las vegas in the 20's. He kept theb location secret even from his family, which helped him with the recovery of the "treasure".
He pawned some of the stuff to pay for his gambling habit and most of what he recovered he again hid in the desert. There were spanish doubloons found and one item that he had appraised, that a photo still exists of, was a piece of the english crown jewels that has been lost since the early 1800's.
It was a broach that was made for a queen in the late 17th century and the last time it was catalogued was in the early 19th century, and it was assumed that the broach was either sold or remade into another peice of jewelry.
But it turned up in the nevada desert in the 20's.
The man died from injuries suffered in a fall while working in the "mine", his wife drove him to las vegas where he died of his injuries, but was never able to find the mine again, because he was so paranoid he blindfolded his wife when he took her to the mine.
Then theres the story of two airforce men who while spelunking in a restricted part of a base in the sixties, im thinkin it was white sands,
supposedly found a stash of gold and silver coins and and bars, precious stones and even suits of armor. They were both young officers at the time and didnt want to risk thier careers so they didnt tell anyone for decades.
When they went back years later it was all gone.
In an interview, one of the men said it was like "pirate treasure" when talking about the gold and silver coins in wooden chests, and the stacks of gold and silver bars. What I found intrigiung is they saw suits of 16th-17th armor in the cave.
they only took a few coins from the stash, coins that were later found to be authentic spanish coins frpom the 17th century.

There has been a treasure in the southwest, but its certainly not egyptian.







[edit on 12-8-2009 by punkinworks]

reply to post by Kandinsky

It so highly unlikely as to be not possible. First there's no way they made it around the cape, egyptian boat tech was not capable of making it in those seas, niether was the tech of any seafaring people at the time.
Secondly the passage across panama is so impossibly harsh as to make it nearly impossible, as it was even in the 19th century.
So that leaves either they made their way across the indian and pacific oceans around and into the gulf of baja up the colorado and past the many unpassable rapids to get to the grand canyon proper, through lands populated by many people hostile to outsiders.
Its as likley as atlanteans doing it.
Or they made it up the missisipi or brazos or rio grand or some river in the south to then trek 2000 miles across a continent of hostile people to dig a catacomb in the grand canyon.
oh come on,

I could see AE's making it to north america, from the atlantic, as highly unlikely as it is.
But to haul a load of mummies and treasure to the grand canyon, to what end?
what could have possibly been their motivation.
Besides the mummies would not have survived the journey intact, mummies require EXTREMELY dry environments that no boat of the period could possibly have provided. They would have rotted away long before they reached the grand canyon.
And there is no source for any of the salts required to re-mummify the remains, once they reached the new world, which would not have been possible anyway.


Besides the AE's never even made it to the headwaters of the river they lived on, so were supposed to believe they navigated around the world.


So yes im saying its impossible.





[edit on 12-8-2009 by punkinworks]

Originally posted by pikestaff
some Egyptian mummies have been found to contain Nicotean and cocain [I hope I spelt those two right], so someone went to the Americas, one theory is that the Chinese visited the americas, who knows?

>Took the words right out of my mouth.Star for you.Though the Egyptions could have made such journeys im having trouble with the Smithsonian denying the expedition took place.Also how do you missplace a find of this magnitude if it was real?

One of my problems with the whole coc aine mummies thing is that coc aine use is only identifiable through the production of anti-bodies by the body, or as they are called metabolites.
And coc aine is completely broken down in the body within several days and is only indentafiable in hair folicle samples. So to say they found traces in body tissues calls the findings into question right off the get go.

And its a real long way from anywhere in egypt to a place where the coca plant will grow.
And there is no way they were able to import it in any quantity from the new world, it would not have survived the voyage with any compunds intact.
The nicotine has many old world sources some of which are plants used in the mummifacation process and the who is surprised by the use of marijuana bgy the AE's it has been used in the middle east and africa for millenia.
Subsequent newer studies have shown no coc aine to be found in any old world mummies

Originally posted by jammer2012
reply to post by Kandinsky

 

You say there is no evidence of Egyptians crossing the ocean and that there journeyes are recorded so a journey to America most have been recorded to...Is it not possible the records are lost...Take the Great Pyramid for example we know the Egyptians built them but there is no smokeing gun...no records from the master builder...so one would have to say they are lost along with many other records from that time. But it does not mean that it never happend.

t
The original article was not claiming they were Egyptians. The claim was it was Egyptian ancestors.It was believed that these people might have been the same group that moved into Egypt.here read this

www.spiritofmaat.com...

reply to post by dragonridr
We're past the article and moved on to indicate why their wouldn't be an Egyptian tomb miles up a river and halfway up a canyon wall in an unknown landmass.

It's a great plot for an Indiana Jones movie if they'd got to it in their prime...way better than that last clunker

AEs had no large ocean voyage skills nor boats capable to make the journey. This is a FACT, so you will have to assume a spacecraft got them there as that would be a more likely scenario.....

This article goes on to describe oriental deities and glyphs of unknown origin... So we are saying the Egyptians and Buddhists co-inhabited peacefully a cave in arizona....lol! Which was it? Buddhists or Egyptians, 2 very different cultures, why would both appear in the same caves.
The tomb interior looks more Roman at a stretch and not even remotley Egyptian or Oriental, so shall we throw the Romans in there also?

The obsession with Egyptology was huge back then, it was like following Britney Spears today. The article also smacks of misleading racial ovetones..ie, we had "more advanced" civlisations here before the Indians, .....Its a hoax.




[edit on 12-8-2009 by zazzafrazz]

Okay I feel the need to point out somethings that I think posts here are overlooking! I re-read this thread and I cannot find a reference that Kincaid was a egyptologist. So with that in mind IF he found something that looked Egyptian with out having been educated on Egyptology all he could make would be a SWAG. No internet, education was not really as broad as today nor as in depth. So if not his field of study he was just slightly better than a layman. [If he existed] Now on the other hand take the Piri Reis map. Supposedly coming from sources gleaned from the library of Alexandria. I hate to add another conspiracy to a thread about a conspirancy.

All through the Middle Ages were circulating a number of sailing charts called "portolani", which were accurate maps of the most common sailing routes, showing coastlines, harbors, straits, bays, etc. Most of those portolani focused on the Mediterranean and the Aegean seas, and other known routes, just as the sailing book which Piri Reis himself had written. But a few reported of still unknown lands, and were circulating among few sailors who seemingly kept their knowledge about those special maps as hidden as they could. Columbus is supposed to have been one of those who knew these special sailing charts.

Hmm sailors keeping charts secret? For a more contemporary theory a boat or more from AE actually sailed by chance or design to the Americas, made friendly contact and eventually sailed home with a chart with directions that never were shared.

Or the temple in the grand canyon was built by the folks who taught the Egyptians and the maps used to make the Piri Reis map was left from these very same people! The gap in human knowledge about our earliest past was caused by the loss of the Library of Alexandria! Hey for all we know the Vatican Library may have a few real interesting bits of knowledge in it too.