Three Gorges Dam in China–Largest in World – Serious Problems? Affects the Whole Earth

reply to post by masqua




It was about time! I am following this thread closely and i just cannot make sense on the attack commited by some to the OP and the thread. Both are of great value and merit. Difficult to discredit...

Prediction/early mittigation is far better than dissaster recovering...

Education and science are tools that in the hand of the gifted protect and help in development, ultimately ourselves.

Any development oughts to be in sync and harmony with its surroundings. Experience has shown us that this is largelly not practised.

One example of such practice is the subject of this thread.
I give 5 stars out of 5 to both the OP and the thread.
To the OP for bringing it up and to the thread of being of such high quality. Ultimately 10 stars to Questioningall for bringing it up and making a stir!

Anyone thinking that messing with nature in such grand scales as we are is not bound to vast/extreme consequences is wrong...

The Three Gorges Dam is a natural dissaster by its mere existence.

Why so much squabbling over such a dam?

The Three Gorges Dam was merely a pet project of Li Peng, the former premier of China or better known the "Butcher of Tiananmen". This pet project was created with the sole purpose of enriching Li Peng's affiliated network, and for Li Peng personally to leave a "great" legacy in the 5000 years old Chinese history. What historians will say about this project, and if it had been giving the Chinese people, the humanity. more in return than it took away? Time will tell. Anything now are mere speculations.

Anyhow the reality is current leaders Hu Jintao/Wen Jiabao and future generations of Chinese leaders are now stucked with this project and we can only try to make the best out of it by creating more wealth than harms with hydro-energy etc etc etc etc. Who knows, one day, people will only look back and say, it was a good decision after all to have created this magnificent dam. Humanity had made one extra step forward....who knows....

Ps. It happens that I was a born Chinese in the Netherlands. Netherlands means literally lower lands, because like half the country is below ocean-level. And most of what anyone can see in Holland are thus in fact artificially human created, because the Dutchies learned how to fight and control mother nature's ocean. Personally I would say that they have done a tremendous great job, and most of the people cannot grasp these achievements. I also think the Dutchies were lucky enough there were much less or no environmentalists protesting and doing other actions to stop their developments, humanity developments....

reply to post by yiersan

Well said, yiersan. A lot of people on this board seem to regard Chinese and other nonwestern people as exotic monkeys with no civilization, sophistication or understanding of world issues. It never occurs to such folk that the Chinese people may have their own ideas about the relative importance of issues affecting a decision, as well as how to get things done. For too many of them, China is just an illiterate mass of downtrodden peasants.

Thank you for bringing us a Chinese perspective on this. I agree with many Westerners that China and the Chinese often show an irresponsible attitude to the environment. However, I am also aware that Westerners are themselves by far the worst offenders in this regard; that collectively, the people of Western Europe and America have done far, far more damage to the Earth - and the other living tenants of it, human and nonhuman alike - than the Chinese ever have or, at this point, even could.

Among the many other rotten qualities of the original post in this thread is the tacit suggestion that the Chinese are too stupid to know or care about the environmental effects of such large construction projects. It stinks to high heaven of the white man - or, as it may be, the white woman - at his or her most patronizing.

[edit on 29/7/09 by Astyanax]

Originally posted by Astyanax
reply to post by yiersan

 

Among the many other rotten qualities of the original post in this thread is the tacit suggestion that the Chinese are too stupid to know or care about the environmental effects of such large construction projects. It stinks to high heaven of the white man - or, as it may be, the white woman - at his or her most patronizing.

[edit on 29/7/09 by Astyanax]

Now 'Astyanax', I've read your post in other threads and find you very versed and have grown to respect what you have to say unlike alot of posters. But I feel your above comment is abit beneath you. Getting abit racist aren't we?
I personnally, in no way took the OP as coming off as the Chinese being uncaring or ignorant. I did take it as some of the things that we as a whole do without considering all the facts. Case in point would be what our(the US) Corp of Engineers did back in the 50's-

Created a fresh water canal for Corpus Cristi,Tx now called the Corpus Cristi River
Had problems with water hyacines(?) growing in it and clogging it up
Introduced a non-native species, the Nuetra Rat, to eat the plants
The Nuetra, being a rodent, multiplied becoming a vermin problem
Introduced another non-native species, the alligator, to eat the nuetra
Alligator population exploded,now Texas has an alligator hunt

Other thoughtless solutions-
Kudzu
That grass in the New Orleans area planted on the levies to prevent errosion
The chinese elm, again planted for errosion problems
And many,many more..

My point being that the OP didn't imply that the Chinese did this purposely or haphazardly. They had nothing but good intentions and did think it was a good idea but did not think out all and any reprecussions from this project just as any of us in this world do. We all have this attitude that we'll deal with it when it happens.

What I would like to hear are possible solutions to this foreseeable problem as has been mentioned before. I wouldn't think that they could dismantle it, but if they could, could it be done in a controlled way without colateral damage? Coiuld they build smaller dams and would it be cost effective? Any ideas on how to prevent or at least retard silt build up?

Deleted!

[edit on 20/1/10 by wiser3]

Kudos to the OP for some serious research and work on this, but hasn't this been dealt with before ... ??

Just asking ...

[edit on 22/1/2010 by Psyagra]

I'm reading a BBC news article:

" Many people have fled to the surrounding mountains, amid fears that a nearby dam could burst.

State media reported that officials were trying to drain a reservoir after a crack appeared in the dam. "

" spokesman for the local government, Zhuo Huaxia, told China's state news agency Xinhua: "The streets in Jiegu are thronged with panic ".

THe earthquake happened ( maybe ) near the dam Gorges.

ALERT: POSSIBLE DANGER OF GORGES DAM BURSTING AFTER 6.9 QUAKE, APPARENTLY MULTIPLE CRACKS

[edit on 14-4-2010 by Zagari]

1. There is more than one dam in China.
2. Three Gorges is 1350 kilometers from the earthquake, some are far closer to the epicenter than Three Gorges.
3. Three Gorges is designed for a 6.5 magnitude earthquake 17 kilometers away, not 6.9 1350 kilometers away. Earthquake intensity goes down quickly with distance (exponentially).
4. Rather Hydro than Coal. Sorry.

Also, why hasn't Three Gorges collapsed yet?

[edit on 14/4/2010 by C0bzz]

great research on this. Took awhile to get through but well worth it.
so here is my question... you seem to have a handle on this what exactly is happening after yesterday's quake? Minus the MSM info.

And the result of the test on the effects of an eclipse on gravity is?

Drum Roll . . . . . . . ......................

There is a fluctuation of gravity during an eclipse. What the testing found is that the moon shields the Earth from the Suns gravity at the beginning, and at the end of the solar eclipse.

Very interesting.

www.docstoc.com...

reply to post by poet1b

Nope. Wrong eclipse.

To investigate the effect of possible gravitational shielding,we conducted a precise measurement of the vertical gravity variations during a total eclipse of the Sun on 9 March 1997 in China.

That was from an eclipse in 1997. The paper was originally published in 2000.
prd.aps.org...


Here is a response to the experiment:

It is difficult to pinpoint the exact cause of the observed anomaly without knowing many more details of the experiment and the environment during the eclipse. But our speculations will help in taking precautions during future experiments.

In summary we have shown that gravity anomaly observed by Wang et al. during the total solar eclipse is not gravitational shielding. It does not point to any new property of gravitation.

prints.iiap.res.in...



[edit on 4/20/2010 by Phage]

Hmmmm, even though the article is dated Mar 26, 2010, the data comes from 1997. I missed that date change. Does this make the paper irrelevant?

I would have thought by now we would have seen some results of the testing that was supposed to take place. I didn't find anything.

Edit to add

Your second link did not work, and your first link agrees with my link.

Testing so far indicates a gravitational anomaly during a solar eclipse.

I don't understand why we don't see the results of this latest measurement on the web.


[edit on 20-4-2010 by poet1b]

reply to post by poet1b

My first link is to the same paper you linked and shows that it was originally published in 2000.

Testing so far does not show gravitational sheilding. My second link shows that the effects found by Wang, et. al. cannot be attributed to gravitational shielding.

Perhaps the experiments from the eclipse last year did not show anything.

[edit on 4/20/2010 by Phage]

reply to post by Phage


Being that currently science still doesn't have a basic understanding of how gravity works, that they disagree on what was observed is expected. How they classify it doesn't change that at several solar eclipses, instruments have detected fluctuation, and there is no reasonable explanation for what has been recorded.

While the article you link to is Certain that the measurements are not correct, it is more than possible that their estimates of the upper limits on the signal based on their beliefs about the gravitational constant are off by several degrees of order.

These people disagree, and while they don't claim certainty, brushing Heisenberg aside, they provide far better explanations of why the article you linked to is probably wrong.

arxiv.org...

Even if last years well advertised measurement did not provide any conclusive evidence, or the evidence they expected, they still should be publishing the results. I find it hard to believe that they would just snub the scientific community. There should be some paper out by now that gives some results and conclusions, or at least an announcement that the results of the measurement are still being analyzed.

Very frustrating.

I know this is an old thread but I just picked up some news via the BBC and I think I will post it here rather than on Breaking News as it seems better placed here. It looks like we/they will know more about the stress/tolerances of the site/structure soon enough...

Article:

"China's Three Gorges dam faces flood test" 20 July 2010, BBClink to article which included a video at time of posting

Article snippet:

"Dr Cao Guangjing, head of China Three Gorges Corporation, says there's "no problem" with the dam

The Three Gorges dam on China's longest river, the Yangtze, is standing up to its biggest flood control test since completion last year, officials say.

Floodwaters in the giant reservoir rose 4m (13ft) overnight, and are now just 20m below the dam's maximum capacity.

The authorities are using the dam to limit the amount of water flowing further downstream to try to minimise the impact of devastating floods.

Beijing cited flood control as a main reason for the $27.2bn (£16.7bn) dam.

Hundreds of people have died in central and southern China in the country's worst floods in more than a decade.

The Three Gorges dam, the largest in the world, was a controversial project as it forced the relocation of 1.4 million people. It is situated in Hubei province.

The flow of the water overnight was the fastest ever recorded, at 70,000 cubic metres per second.

Dr Cao Guangjing, head of China Three Gorges Corporation, told the BBC that 40,000 cubic metres/second were released, with 30,000 cubic metres/second of water held back in the reservoir.

"Without the Three Gorges this kind of discharge would bring disaster to the downstream areas," he said. "


Looks like they have some confidence in it's structural integrity, or do they have no other options...probably both?

where is questioningall anyway
She has seemed to vanish,.
she did allot of research for this thread

China's Three Gorges reservoir faces test as water level breaks records

news.xinhuanet.com...

A continuous deluge along the swollen Yangtze River has pushed the water level of China's Three Gorges reservoir to its peak this year on Friday and it may rise further, testing the country's mega water control system built to tame the worst floods.

The water level rose to 158.86 meters at 10 a.m. Friday, about 13.86 meters above the reservoir's water-releasing level, said engineers of the reservoir, located in Yichang City, central Hubei Province.

As of 2 p.m. Friday, the water level dropped to 158.83 meters and has remained largely stable since.

The maximum capacity of the multibillion dollar reservoir is 175 meters.

On Tuesday flood waters gushed into the reservoir 70,000 cubic meters per second -- the greatest velocity since it was built. The flow reduced to 34,000 cubic meters per second at 2 p.m. Friday.

The reservoir continued to release water at a speed of 40,000 cubic meters per second

New China floods feared as Yangtze swells

news.smh.com.au...

China, already reeling from deadly floods, braced Friday for a potential new deluge on the Yangtze downstream from the huge Three Gorges Dam as its reservoir's level hit a high for the year.

The warnings came as officials sought to dampen expectations that the dam could completely tame the swelling river amid the worst flooding in a decade, which has left more than 1,100 people dead or missing.

The Three Gorges reservoir's water level reached its highest point in this year's floods, the water resources ministry said, adding it hit the dam's 158.8-metre mark Friday. State press reports put its maximum at 175 metres.

BUMP

This is an EXELLENT thread/OP on the Three Gorges Dam in China.

Slayer has a New Thread on some of the emerging problems as predicted on this thread we are now seeing in Spring 2011.

IMHO this is a very important situation, recent earthquakes leave nothing to the imagination if one hit this area, the japan disater and boxing day Tsunamis would be absolutely nothing in comparison if a total collapse happened at the three gorges.

I would advise all who are interested in the dangers faced by humanity to stop looking for little green men, glowing prophets scalar weapons etc etc when in terms of probability and devastation the Elephant is certainly in the living room, in true risk terms and provable actual known potential.

Have a peek I bet many dont even know what color it is, this thread and also:

Beijing admits to "Urgent" Problems With Three Gorges Dam

Kind Regards,

Elf

reply to post by questioningall



Very interesting thread..... took a fair bit of reading to get through to the end but was well worth the investment in time. 10 outta 10 for effort. Thanks for posting. Am sending a link to this thread for a friend to read. I bet he'll turn into a ATS lurker afterwards.

reply to post by questioningall


Hello everyone and happy to be here and here is my first post.

Perigee is actually when the Moon is at its closest point to earth. Apogee is the reverse. Super Moon is when Perigee and a full Moon phase coincide, and only at full phase is it dubbed a Super Moon. This happens about once a year. However, perigee and apogee happen once every lunar cycle (27.3217 days).

May 6th's Super Moon was at a distance 353,050 kilometers from the face of the Earth at the moment of perigee (from San Diego).
The Solar Eclipse will actually be just past Apogee at a distance of about 404,420 kilometers from the face of the Earth at totality.

Considering ths happens every 27.3 days, and the fact that the new moon was last at perigee (super new moon if you wish) on 09-27-11 (363,568 kl away) and nothing happend I think we are safe. And the minor detial that they are lined up perfectly (solar eclipse) does not add any additional gravity than it it were just a New Moon next to the Sun. Plus if gravity is pulling up on the water less force is pushing down against the dam.

This Eclipse will not be directly over china. It will be just after low tide and just after sunrise; only about twenty degrees above the horizon.

Post script: Perigee at a New phase (Super New Moon) has way more effect on the Earth than at Full (Super Moon) because the Sun addes to this pull so i can see where you are headed. The next time this happens is on the night of 12-12-12 ((363,405 kl) go figure!).
________________________________________


apogee and perigee facts located at: www.moonconnection.com...

Second paragraph touches on Super Moon and Perigee | illustration of apogee, perigee and phases further down the page: www.dailymail.co.uk...

all distances, dates of last & next 'super new moon', length luner cycle and position of eclipse were calculated with my 'starry night pro' program so you will have to take my word for it.

~PEACE~