Three Gorges Dam in China–Largest in World – Serious Problems? Affects the Whole Earth

This is a companion thread to the Solar Eclipse thread. www.abovetopsecret.com...

Why? Because the Eclipse is going across the Three Gorges Dam in China – and there is information about it, which is good to know. Also believe it or not the Dam affects the World – Earth Wobble.

The Three Gorges Dam is the Largest in the World in two Areas – Largest Dam and Largest Hydropower plant.

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The Three Gorges Dam has had controversy surrounding it from the start and idea of the project back in the early 1900s. The actual work began in 1994 on the dam – it is suppose to be totally completed this year in 2009. The actual dam construction was completed in 2006 – and the water began rising then. The complete construction of the hydropower plant is finishing this year.

I will give you background information on the dam along with the controversy, though some may think, why in the world should we be concerned about a dam in China?

Okay to start with the vast amount of information on the Three Gorges Dam, lets first look at the idea and why’s of China wanting to build it.

This first site as a great amount of information on the dam, along with history – it also has information about the U.S - TVA and their dams. I am inserting the relevant information here about the Three Gorges only. But to read more please go to the site here:

www.schillerinstitute.org...

The dam is on the Yangtze River – 4th largest river in the world

From its origins in the glacial marshlands of the 20,000-foot high Tibetan plateau, the mighty Yangtze River, or the Changjiang (Long River, as the Chinese call it), winds its way like a giant dragon nearly 6,300 km (3,900 miles) on its way to deposit its annual 960 billion cubic meters of water into the East China Sea. It is the third longest in the world after the Amazon and the Nile, and the third largest in terms of annual runoff after the Amazon and the Congo Rivers. On its journey eastward, the Yangtze passes through an area inhabited by more than 400 million people, approximately one third of the country's population.

But the mighty river has also been the cause of great destruction and loss of life, that devastate the valley. From time immemorial, flooding has been a problem.

The flooding problem has generally been dealt with by constructing levees in the Jingjiang plain area. Since the 1950s, more than 30,000 km of dikes and levees have been reinforced or raised. As sedimentation lifts the river bottom, however, the dikes are continually in danger of being overrun, for the water level during flood season rises 6 to 17 meters higher than that of the plain region along both banks.

The Three Gorge Dams is the largest dam in the world, as wide as the Golden Gate Bridge and twice as tall, capable of generating 18 gigawatts of hydro-electric power.

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Please remember that about “sediment” it plays a part in why there is danger with the Three Gorges Dam.

The thought of a dam at Three Gorges has a long history in China

The idea of building a dam in the gorges has a long history. In 1919, in an article titled "Industrial Plan," Sun Yat-sen, the founding father of modern China, saw the tremendous economic benefits of building a dam on the Yangtze as a part of his economic development plan for China. Dr. Sun was particularly interested in using the vast hydropower resources of the river to produce the electricity needed to build factories for making artificial fertilizer, the only means he could envision for China to make the leap in agricultural productivity needed to feed its growing population.

He also saw the area of the gorges as the most suitable spot for building a dam to generate that electricity. Dr. Sun further elaborated on this idea in 1924, in a lecture he gave on his "Third Principle of the People, Peoples' Livelihood":
An article in the Engineering News-Record, Feb. 28, 1946, reported, "China plans an unprecedented dam for power, irrigation, and navigation on the Yangtze river."

So as you see above – almost a century ago – the Chinese wanted at dam at Three Gorges.

The project was never started, until President Reagan was instrumental in getting the Three Gorges Dam off the ground, by offering U.S. assistance.

On his visit to China in 1984, President Reagan was asked by the Chinese leadership to increase U.S. involvement in this important project. Reagan, whose outlook, although conservative, was more characteristic of the Roosevelt era, responded forthrightly. He sent his former National Security Advisor, William Clark, to Beijing, as head of a group of people from the Bureau of Reclamation and private industry, with a wide-ranging proposal for collaboration on the Three Gorges Project, proposing, in fact, a U.S.-China consortium to build the dam.

The proposal would have made of the Three Gorges Project a giant joint venture. The Chinese were not so eager to pursue this "joint venture" route in such a strategically important undertaking. Interest in the project from the Reagan Administration quickly cooled, and the joint venture bid was quietly tabled.

Nevertheless, the Reagan visit resulted in the 1984 signing of a five-year agreement between the U.S. Bureau of Reclamation and the Chinese Ministry of Water Resources and Electric Power, to provide technical assistance in the final planning and design phases, and in the construction of the Three Gorges Project. A second agreement was signed in 1992, to provide technical assistance on data management, computer software, drill-hole survey technology, and dam safety monitoring. By that time, however, the environmentalist movement had geared up its campaign to sabotage all U.S. involvement in the Three Gorges Project.

In 1985, the Environmental Policy Institute, the Worldwatch Institute, and other environmentalist groups initiated a major campaign to stymie continued U.S. cooperation with the Three Gorges Project. Hearings were held on Capitol Hill in July 1985 by the Subcommittee on Water and Power Resources of the House Committee on Interior and Insular Affairs, on the topic "Irrigation in Drought and Famine-affected Countries," chaired by Democrat George Miller from California, a darling of the environmentalist lobby.

Although the prime focus of the 1985 hearings of the Subcommittee on Water and Power Resources of the House Committee on Interior and Insular Affairs, was on Africa, the environmentalists focussed on the Three Gorges Project. They demanded that the Bureau of Reclamation submit an environmental impact statement on all its foreign engagements, under the newly legislated domestic requirements of the National Environmental Policy Act (NEPA), which was an environmentalist straitjacket that had been placed on U.S. industry during the Carter Administration.

When the Clinton Administration was elected to office in 1992, the year the Chinese Government actually decided to proceed with the Three Gorges Project,

So, the dam agreement – but actual implementation took many years – from Reagan to Clinton.

But the U.S. cooperation halted, due to various influences

A year later, (1993) seven environmentalist groups filed a law suit against the U.S. Bureau of Reclamation and the Army Corps of Engineers, charging that the assistance they were rendering the Three Gorges Project would flood the habitats of a dozen "endangered species." The Bureau, a branch of the Interior Department, whose head now was the notorious environmentalist Bruce Babbitt, withdrew from the project that same year.

[edit on 20-7-2009 by questioningall]

How the U.S. involvement with the Three Gorges Dam – came to a complete end

In 1992, under pressure from the environmentalist lobby, Congress passed legislation which mandated an environmental review for all foreign projects in which the U.S. Export Import Bank was involved. The Three Gorges Project became a test case for this new policy. Because of the significance of the project for U.S.-China relations, Ex-Im asked the National Security Council to convene a panel to consider the merits of U.S. participation in the dam. In September 1995, the interagency National Security Council panel delivered its recommendation, signed by the then Deputy National Security Advisor Sandy Berger. The U.S. government, the panel advised, should not "align itself with a project that raises environmental and human rights concerns on the scale of the Three Gorges." But the memo, leaked to Congress, counselled the government to "refrain from publicly condemning the Three Gorges Project." Instead, it continued, "explanation of our policy should emphasize the U.S. government's commitment to strengthening commercial relations with China and to helping China meet its basic energy needs."

Okay, hopefully you are still with me here, I felt it is necessary to give a background on the Dam and the U.S. was going to do it jointly with China for a time, but then backed out.

This from the same link above: The building of the Dam

The construction of the dam, begun in September 1994, will take 17 years from its inception, proceeding in three stages. When the dam is completed, it will have a height, or crest, of 185 meters, placing it somewhat higher than the Golden Gate Bridge. In the early phase of operation, during the third phase of construction, the water level in the reservoir region will be 135 meters, and the final Normal Pool Level, or highest level, will be 175 meters.

The first stage of construction, from 1992 to 1997, involved the building of two phase-one cofferdams to shut off the flow of the river from the construction site, and the re-routing of the river through an artificial diversion channel.

Now during phase two, from 1997 to 2003, the construction of the left bank dam section is under way; the left-bank powerhouse will be completed with the installation of some units, and construction of the spillway and continued construction of the permanent shiplock are taking place. The spillway dam, placed in the mid-section of the structure, is 483 meters long with 23 bottom outlets and 22 surface sluice gates. With a maximum discharge capacity of 102,500 cubic meters per second, the project is able to discharge the maximum level of water possible during floods.

In December 2002, before the flood season in the spring of 2003, the phase-three cofferdams in the diversion channel will be finished, and the reservoir water level will be raised to 135 meters. At this time, the permanent shiplock will be ready for use, and the diversion channel will no longer be needed for navigation. According to the scheme for the second stage, 17 million cubic meters of concrete will be poured, 180,000 metal structures will be installed, and approximately $10 billion will be invested.

The water level will be raised to the 135-meter level, creating the reservoir behind it, stretching 600 km back to the city of Chongqing. Construction will continue on building the right bank dam and the second power plant.

By the end of phase three, the water level behind the dam will be raised to its final 175-meter level. The reservoir formed in the upper river will be longer than the Grand Canyon, with an average width of about 1 kilometer, approximately twice the width of the present river. It will have a total storage capacity of 39.3 billion cubic meters including a flood regulation and storage capacity of 22.15 billion cubic meters.

NOW where some of the Problems and Controversy Lay with the Dam. Still from the same link – but I will be adding other links and somewhat producing the same material – but in a different way – a little later. This was written awhile back.

A great deal has been made of the need to resettle as many as 1.2 million people from the lower slopes of the gorges, west of Sandouping, which will be inundated to create the great reservoir behind the dam. The opposition to resettlement, from "human rights" groups to environmentalist groups, has devoted thousands of pages of articles to the plight of the farmers in this region, and the failure of the government to adequately provide a new life for them. There have even been warnings that dissatisfied peasants may rise up in violent revolt against the authorities.

Here comes some of the “silt/sediment” part – though in all the other reports the sediment build up every year is 700 million tons.

In addition to making the most important environmental improvement—changing the lives of the people—the Three Gorges Dam is part of an overall policy to improve the environment of the Yantgze Valley, including the control of the approximately 500 million tons per year of silt that course down the river.

The possibility of the collection of silt in the huge reservoir to be created by the dam has been a main objection by the dam's opponents. Problems of silt buildup at the Aswan Dam in Egypt, and others around the world, have added to this concern. According to the Chinese, extensive and detailed studies on sedimentation in the reservoir region began in the early 1950s, and concern has increased, as the existing reservoirs and water diversion areas have been filling with silt.

Based on more than 40 years of observations, sediment discharge averages about 526 million tons per year.

The above link and everything in it was written awhile ago and is TOTALLY behind and supports the project. So I have linked and presented excerts from a “pro” Three Gorges Dam writer.

Link to many construction photos of the dam

www.chinapage.com...

Satellite Pictures of the Dam taken in 2003

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Now lets take a more serious look at the dam, now that it is basically complete and the problems/controversy that has ensued during the construction of the dam – and what has shown up as a result of the dam being built. This is where everything starts getting dicey and why there are very serious and valid concerns about the Three Gorges Dam.

Link:bluelivingideas.com...

The Three Gorges Dam was completed in 2006 on the Yangtze River, and NASA has released images of the flooding reservoir behind the dam which has displaced 1.2 million people.

[edit on 20-7-2009 by questioningall]

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Taken by astronauts at the International Space Station, images of the Three Gorges Dam reveals “the river is filling up its valley behind the dam to form a narrow reservoir extending more than 600 kilometers.” NASA images from 2000 and 2006 show the changes that have occurred to the Yangtze, especially when compared to the current photographs of the flooding taken in April 2009. The reservoir was filled in three stages, with the last stage occurring in 2009.

After many years of denial, the Chinese government is expressing concern about the environmental consequences of the dam. Scientific American reports:

Chinese officials staged a sudden about-face, acknowledging for the first time that the massive hydroelectric dam, sandwiched between breathtaking cliffs on the Yangtze River in central China, may be triggering landslides, altering entire ecosystems and causing other serious environmental problems—and, by extension, endangering the millions who live in its shadow.

International Rivers warns the environmental impact will be severe and cumulative:

The environmental impacts of the project are profound, and are likely to get worse as time goes on. The submergence of hundreds of factories, mines and waste dumps, and the presence of massive industrial centers upstream are creating a festering bog of effluent, silt, industrial pollutants and rubbish in the reservoir. Erosion of the reservoir and downstream riverbanks is causing landslides, and threatening one of the world’s biggest fisheries in the East China Sea. The weight of the reservoir’s water has many scientists concerned over reservoir-induced seismicity.

Unfortunately, even though the Chinese government recognizes the environmental concerns of the Three Gorges Dam, they are “replicating this model both domestically and internationally.” From earthquakes to landslides, the increase in water pressure from flooding the Three Gorges resevoir to its full capacity in 2009 could have devasting consequences. Already, relocated villagers have to be moved again because “officials failed to foresee the full magnitude of the dam’s effects.”

To move forward with other dam projects is irresponsible of the Chinese government without learning lessons from Three Gorges.



Even the Chinese now are admitting – the Three Gorges Dam – can be a HUGE problem.

Also – in case people are not aware there are 360 million people that live down stream from the dam, just something to keep in mind – as we delve deeper into the dam and problems.

I may jump around a little – but I want to link this site and how the Three Gorges Dam is compared to the 2004 Tsunami.

Link: www.zdnetasia.com...

Tsunami moves North Pole, shortens daytime Daytime is now 2.68 microseconds shorter because of last month's tsunami.

The massive force unleashed by an earthquake off the coast of Indonesia altered the shape of Earth in a number of minute yet significant ways, NASA scientists have determined.

This is the important part of the information in the link

All earthquakes affect the shape of the planet, but the force of the recent tsunami-inducing quake--the fourth-largest recorded in 100 years--was particularly strong. Benjamin Chao of NASA's Goddard Space Flight Center compared the impact of the quake to the potential impact of the Three Gorges Dam project in China.

If filled, the massive gorge created by the dam would hold 40 cubic kilometers (10 trillion gallons) of water. That shift of mass would increase the length of a day by only 0.06 microseconds and make the Earth only very slightly more round in the middle and flat on the top. It would shift the pole position by about two centimeters (0.8 inches).

"Any worldly event that involves the movement of mass affects the Earth's rotation, from seasonal weather down to driving a car," Chao said in a statement.

We are going to start getting to the REAL problems – acknowledged even by the Chinese government.

An article from 2007 link: www.timesonline.co.uk...

It was hailed as one of the engineering feats of the 20th century. Now the Three Gorges Dam across China’s mighty Yangtze River threatens to become an environmental catastrophe.

In an unprecedented admission of blame, Communist Party officials gave a stark warning yesterday of impending disaster in the vast area around the dam if preventive measures are not urgently introduced.

They are being honest about the damage being done, but this was written 2 years ago.

More from article:

A report issued by the Xinhua news agency, mouthpiece for the Government, said: “There exist many ecological and environmental problems concerning the Three Gorges Dam. If no preventive measures are taken, the project could lead to catastrophe.”

A government forum listed a host of threats such as conflicts over land shortages, ecological deterioration as a result of irrational development and, especially, erosion and landslides on steep hills around the dam. Other authorities have already raised concerns over algae bloom downstream from the Three Gorges and a deterioration in aquatic life.

What a change for China to come out and say “We have a problem” – Well it even gets WORST – still from same article

One official said that the shore of the reservoir had collapsed in 91 places and a total of 36 kilometres (22 miles) had already caved in.
Landslides have produced waves as high as 50 metres (165ft). In July a mountain along a tributary collapsed, dragging 13 farmers to their deaths and drowning 11 fishermen.

Ms Dai told The Times: “The Government knows it has made a mistake. Now they are afraid that the catastrophe that they cannot prevent will spark civil unrest. So they want to go public before the troubles start.”

Map of where it is located in China
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From PBS site – www.pbs.org...
about the Dam

The Three Gorges Dam will consist of a 610-foot high wall running 1.3 miles from bank to bank.

The reservoir created by the backflow of the dam will extend 360 miles up river to Chongqing ("Chong-ching"), a distance equal to nearly half the length of California.

Once operational, the dam will produce the energy of 15 nuclear power plants.

The project is estimated to be completed in 2009 at a cost of over $30 billion.

In the past 2,000 years, the Yangtze River has experienced 215 catastrophic floods.

In 1998 flooding in the area expected to be controlled by the dam resulted in 4,000 dead, 14 million left homeless and $24 billion in economic loss
When the dam is completed, 13 cities, 140 towns and over 1,300 villages will be submerged by the Three Gorges Reservoir.

To make way for the Three Gorges Dam, 1.5 million people will have to abandon their homes. More than 160,000 citizens have already been relocated.

Upon the dam's completion, 1,300 known archeological sites will be lost forever under water.

Over 265 billion gallons of raw sewage are dumped into the Yangtze annually. Currently the river flushes this downstream and out into the ocean. Upon completion of the Three Gorges project, the sewage will back up in the reservoir.

Over 1,600 factories and abandoned mines will be submerged when the dam is completed. Environmentalists predict that toxins associated with industry and mining will create a hazard for the animals and people who depend on the river for survival.

Over 700 million tons of sediment are deposited into the Yangtze annually, making it the fourth largest sediment carrier in the world. Experts believe that this sediment will build up behind the dam, with only an unproven system of sluice gates to release it.

Over 360 million people live within the watershed of the Yangtze River. If the one in one thousand chance of a dam collapse occured, the millions of people who live downstream would be endangered.

[edit on 20-7-2009 by questioningall]

The above was from PBS – it has a conflicting amount of sediment, compared to the information provided above from another site. PBS – says 700 million tons of sediment – the other said 500 million tons – a 200 million ton difference.

A you tube video – A Fabulous piece – about everything with the dam – from land slides – people’s houses crumbling. They go inside the dam – it is a great video and worthwhile watching.

Looks like I can not embed the video - here is the link to it. www.youtube.com...



There are many videos about the relocation of people – so far 1.5 million and now possibly 4 million more. People’s houses around the areas of the river are cracking – there are many videos about that. I am only inserting the one – but if you would like to see more – just plug in:” three gorges dam” on youtube and you will have lots of choose from.

While still being built problems began
Link: www.uswaternews.com...

In a rare admission of problems at the giant Three Gorges Dam in central China, officials said cracks found in the dam could leak if not fixed.
Inspectors have found about 80 cracks in the dam's surface, said Pan Jiazhong, head of the construction committee inspection group. He said that while they weren't a threat to safety, they could expand and cause leaking if not repaired.

``If water enters these cracks, there could be negative effects, so we are fixing them very carefully,'' Pan said at a news conference.

But did fixing the cracks work?
www.smh.com.au...

Water levels rise in Three Gorges dam, cracks reappear
The closing of the sluice gates comes after a general inspection of the dam in mid-May revealed that repair work to fix large cracks on its 185 metre-high concrete face had not been completely successful.

"We found that some of the vertical cracks on the dam that were repaired have reopened, even though we put a great deal of money and effort into the repair work," Pan Jiazheng, an engineer, said in a speech following the end of the inspection.

Mr Pan, 75, a member of the Academy of Sciences of China and the former deputy director of the Engineering Academy, added, "We should absolutely not be proud of ourselves."

Earthquakes possibly happening around the dam?
Link: katabasis.cementhorizon.com...
604.html

The Three Gorges Dam is situated near six active fault lines and above 15 million people. A dam burst at Three Gorges would, says engineer Philip Williams, president of the San Francisco-based International Rivers Network, "rank as one of history's worst man-made disasters."

The dam is built to withstand earthquakes up to 7.0 on the richter scale, and the largest recent earthquakes have been below 6.0. However, filling the reservoir behind the dam creates seismic pressure which triggers earthquakes. In fact, earthquakes between 6.0 and 6.5 are expected once the reservoir is filled in 2009. One of the dams designed to hold back sedimentation farther up is subject to even worse seismic problems. "

Below they say they expect landslides – 14 – but there have been hundreds – that is a huge increase over the expected 14!

In 1992, the expert group identified 260 landslides and collapses containing at least 100,000 cubic metres of rock and earth; 140 of these had a volume of 1 million cubic metres or more. At least 14 landslides are considered likely to be activated by the filling of the reservoir.

Already major cracks have developed in the dam, and even after extensive repairs, they have reappeared. Pan Jiazheng, one of China's top engineers recently acknowledged,

"It appears that during the concrete pouring, we put too much emphasis on the goal of achieving a very high degree of strength. But it has turned out that a high degree of strength does not necessarily mean good quality in a concrete dam. We have achieved an unnecessarily high degree of strength and a lot of cracks in the dam by pouring too much concrete and spending a great deal of money. "I feel that it's too early to be proud of ourselves, and we have a long way to go.

Again the sediment is looked at

Over 700 million tons of sediment are deposited into the Yangtze annually, making it the fourth largest sediment carrier in the world. The Chinese officials have decided to halt the flow of sediment higher up in the Yangtze tributaries by building four smaller dams, including one that will be second only to the Three Gorges in size. What will happen when sediment builds up behind these dams?

There is a lot of information about corruption and embezzling of money from the project by Chinese officials – but I am not going to detail that here, as there is no need to. It is not relevant to this thread. But what is relevant is the question of: with the project’s money issues – were some things bypassed that should have been done and was the quality of materials used – that were slated? Or were they downgraded – so money went into pockets?

Thus – is the quality of the dam what it should be?

What is VERY interesting is this fact – The WEATHER has changed, due to the dam -

from link:
dsc.discovery.com...

June 22, 2007 — Two years before its completion, the world’s largest dam is already changing the local weather, say scientists studying the Three Gorges Dam on China’s Yangtze River. Both modeling and actual meteorological data suggest that the reservoir is cooling its valley, which is causing changes in rainfall.

"In China there are a lot of people who complain because of the construction of the dam" and specifically about changes in local weather, said climate modeler Liguang Wu of NASA’s Goddard Space Flight Center and the University of Maryland in College Park.

They did not believe it, so they experimented

To find out if the dam was really to blame, Wu and his colleagues collaborated with Chinese scientists to study the changing climate around what will soon be a 401-square-mile reservoir of more than 5 trillion gallons of water and a hydroelectric power plant 20 times more powerful than the Hoover Dam.

The researchers combined satellite data and ground weather stations to create a computer climate simulation, which they then compared to what has already happened in recent years.

The construction of the dam and changes to the land and vegetation around it have been recorded for years by the NASA-US Geological Survey Landsat satellites. They show steady progress from 2000 to today, with the biggest changes in 2004, when the reservoir was partially filled and water backed up into many side canyons.

Among the surprise weather changes has been the increase in rainfall between the Daba and Oinling mountains, said Wu.

The rains come from a "lake effect" intensification of precipitation, like that seen around the Great Lakes of North America. The lake effect happens when already moist air picks up more moisture as it crosses over a warm body of water, then rains or snows it out quickly upon reaching the shore.

In all, a whopping 62 square miles of land are expected to see weather effects from the dam, he said. That’s more than ten times the area originally predicted, he said.

In a way, he said, Three Gorges is a great laboratory for studying how well local climate changes caused by very local land-use changes can be detected and distinguished from larger-scale global climate change.

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caption under pictures

Photo taken on July 1, 2009 shows the Three Gorges Dam opening two deep-holes and a trash way hole for sluicing the mounting flood water, in Yichang, central China's Hubei Province. The Three Gorges Reservoir has high influx of flooded water along with the arrival of Yangtze River's main flood season with recent days' persistent rainfalls.(Xinhua/Wen Zhenxiao)

[edit on 20-7-2009 by questioningall]

Now if you remember – last year, China had a Huge Earthquake – it came out later the cause of the quake was due to a dam.

Links: topics.nytimes.com...

In February 2009, a growing number of American and Chinese scientists suggested that the calamity was triggered by a four-year-old reservoir built close to the earthquake's geological fault line.

A Columbia University scientist who studied the quake has said that it may have been triggered by the weight of 320 million tons of water in the Zipingpu Reservoir less than a mile from a well-known major fault.

His conclusions, presented to the American Geophysical Union in December, coincide with a new finding by Chinese geophysicists that the dam caused significant seismic changes before the earthquake.

Another site: blogs.discovermagazine.com...

The devastating earthquake that killed 80,000 people in China’s Sichuan Province last May may have been triggered by a recently built hydropower dam that lies only three miles from the quake’s epicenter, some researchers are arguing. The several hundred million tons of water piled behind the Zipingpu Dam put just the wrong stresses on the adjacent Beichuan fault, [says] geophysical hazards researcher Christian Klose [Science, subscription required].

Fan Xiao, the chief engineer of the Sichuan Geology and Mineral Bureau in Chengdu, said it was “very likely” that the construction and filling of the reservoir in 2004 had led to the disaster. “There have been many cases in which a water reservoir has triggered an earthquake,” said Mr Fan. “This earthquake was very unusual for this area. There have been no seismic activities greater than a magnitude seven quake along this particular seismic belt before” [Telegraph].

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Jeez, that dam looks like a little baby compared to the Three Gorges Dam – and building it and filling a reservoir caused the Huge quake last year in China? I have looked but did not find out how much water was estimated to be in the reservoir.

There is so much more information – but I don’t want to make a 100 page thread here and lose everyone. I have put the most relevant information I believe to get across my own thoughts that the building of the dam has hurt more than helped.

The point with all the above information is to get across the fact the dam does many things – it is effecting the Earth in various ways – by the amount of water being held in the Yangtze River. It has affected the weather there, there have been many many landslides, the amount of sediment that can build up against the dam is very dangerous. The human issues of relocating people is tremendous.

Now – what brought my full attention to the Three Gorges Dam – so I then began a project of compiling information about it… you ask?


Well – I go on an Earth board forum many times a day. Months ago – I read about a time marker – when a certain event happens – then another event will follow within a years time.


Someone put information up again the other day on the Earth board – about another forum on the web – which an Indian had begun a thread – in updating his old one from a few years before. The thread was written during the morning – saying “Walter Cronkite – will die soon” (basically) – and when that happens – then his visions/information he wrote about before - will happen. (yeah, this is that “Esoteric” part I mentioned in the Solar Eclipse thread). Well the vision involves The Three Gorges Dam, and let me put it simply – in case you are wondering – the vision is not a “happy” one. Well that evening Walter Cronkite died.


Needless to say – all kinds of things were flying around – because the Indian reinstated his vision and Cronkite’s death – the morning – of the day – right before his death.

I decided to REALLY look into the Three Gorges Dam – in how well built it was and the history of it. What I found has not reassured me that this person’s vision was “far out there” at all. In fact it is the opposite, it looks to me (my own personal opinion), that the dam is a major catastrophe waiting to happen.

Now with the longest duration of a solar eclipse in our life time going right over the dam – and the solar eclipse being in conjunction with a super moon – water IS affected – by both those things.

Interesting enough – I had read elsewhere (no not webbot) of Walter Cronkite’s death being a time market for events to begin happening (nope – not good events either – sorry to say).

But now you know hundreds of millions of people live below that dam and even Chinese officials are not proud of their Worlds largest dam. The impact on the people of China – but also on the Earth – has not been a good one from that dam.


Also think about this… if there have already been cracks in the dam – that keep coming back and they have an unproven way of not having the dam affected by the 700 million tons of sediment build up a year…doesn’t it make sense there could be problems?


Also lets hypothesis and consider – what would happen if the dam did break?


Besides the millions of lives that could possibly be lost – if that water rushed down – if could affect the Earth’s axis and rotation, just as the Tsunami did in 2004.

There are many implications to problems concerning the Three Gorges Dam – and those possibilities can actually affect us all, not just the Chinese.

Evasius has done amazing work with his time wave zero charts – there is a Huge drop that day – he inserted it in the solar eclipse thread - www.abovetopsecret.com...


Will that drop be caused by a dam break – or maybe … a bright light in the sky during the eclipse?

The summary of information provided - in my opinion

To summarize the huge amount of information and laying the ground work for my own personal summary is this:

Chinese officials Know the Dam was a monumental MISTAKE -

it has impacted China enviromentally - besides in human rights already!
It causes the Earth to Wobble - it causes quakes - which is in the youtube video - the amount of sediment building up every year 700 million tons against the dam (though they have an unproven way of getting rid of it) -
The cracks in the dam - that keep coming back - though the dam is brand new.

360 million people live below the dam - imagine the horror (which I don't want to even think about) if the dam ever does fail.

If it does ever fail - then the Whole Earth could be affected - it could cause an axis and rotation problem - by the huge amount of water that would be released - a MEGA tsunami!

I believe the Chinese officials are sweating this dam now -


I already know flaming is coming….


edit: - map showing eclipse going Directly over Dam with a RED X for approximate location of Dam.

Please THANK ATS Member - PAMIE for Providing us with this Map!
THANK YOU PAMIE!!

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/08415c674b93.gif[/atsimg]

[edit on 20-7-2009 by questioningall]

A lot of info there - any chance of a summary?
Not got time to read all that, and particularly with ATS i'm less and less willing to spend time reading what usually turns out to be insane ramblings - not that I am suggesting what you have there is insane, a summary would let me know if your argument is relevant / interesting enough to warrant me spending time going through all that info!!

reply to post by Thebudweiserstuntman


Yeah - basically it says - The DAM can fail - affects the Earth - makes it wobble - can affect the rotation - 360 million people live below it - so take a guess at what that means if it collapses - cause Earthquakes - a HUGE disaster enviromentally!

IN Other Words - Every person on Earth - can possibly be impacted by this One Dam!!

I am sorry - I know there is a lot of information provided - and it may be too much - BUT the reason it is all there is layiing out the summary and why the summary is what it is.

That dam will fail one day - and my reasoning for doing this now - is could it fail from influences of an eclipse? It is questioning and it is laying out the reasons why it is too big and even the Chinese officials are worried about the dam - knowing it was a BIG mistake.

The stuff actually is interesting - but there is a lot to get through and is all relevant to the case - of a disaster - waiting to happen!




[edit on 20-7-2009 by questioningall]

Sorry if I missed it. That was a lot of great info.

You mentioned the eclipse was going to cross the dam. Was that just an interesting fact, or did it have some significance?

Also, as for the sewage and silt, the dam can be constructed in such a way as to allow a large percentage of this to pass through. Modern dams can be very effective at minimizing environmental impact downstream. Do you know if shortcuts were taken or if all precautions were at least attempted?

You mentioned it could produce the power of 15 Nuclear plants. In that comparison, looking at a "worst-case scenario" for each type of power generation. It would seem that major failure of 15 Nuclear plants would produce much more widespread and long lasting effects than one dam failure. Given that either scenario would be catastrophic, and that millions of lives would be lost or adversely affected, it still seems the dam is the lessor of two evils. What is your take on that comparison?

[edit on 20-7-2009 by getreadyalready]

reply to post by Thebudweiserstuntman


Summary:

Dam BAD.
Dam being built : lots of lives ruind in massed moved, environment ruined in area, weight of water affect worlds balance
Dam Breaks Very BAD, millions of lives lost, cities destroyed, shanghai gone, probable tsunami type wave as the sheer weight of water hits the sea.
Dam works : good , but unlikely works, sediment from river Yangzste builds up and water floods over Dam , not including water building up before dam destroying land behind.
All in all summaries summary: BIG DAM = BIG BAD NEWS

[edit on 20/7/09 by DataWraith]

reply to post by getreadyalready


My take is the dam should NEVER have been built - comparing Nuclear plants to a hydropower plant - hydropower is of course better. BUT to to the risk of hundreds of millions of lives and to the Rotation of the Earth!

Originally posted by Thebudweiserstuntman
A lot of info there - any chance of a summary?
Not got time to read all that, and particularly with ATS i'm less and less willing to spend time reading what usually turns out to be insane ramblings - not that I am suggesting what you have there is insane, a summary would let me know if your argument is relevant / interesting enough to warrant me spending time going through all that info!!

Read it!!

This is what ATS is about! Very informative and well documented. Excellent work 'Questionall'. Is there any way to close this 'Pandora's box?

Hypothetically thinking(which would never happen) if they were to drain the dam and undo what has been done, I would think that relieving all that water weight would have just a dramatic effect as as the application of it. 'Dam if we do and Dam if we don't'(turned out to be a pun but this is a serios situation)

Great work 'Questionall' and a S&F for this.

[edit on 20-7-2009 by geo1066]

reply to post by geo1066


Don't blame someone for asking for the short short version, we are all lazy and want someone else to do all the hard work for us and then tell the simple answer at the end.

reply to post by DataWraith


How true 'DataWraith'!

Okay, I'll give the 'Cliff notes' on it-

It's a really big dam in China.
It holds alot of water.
It's over major fault lines.
It has unrepairable cracks in it.
It's causing local climate changes.
It's collecting all the sewage from upstream.
It's collecting mega tons of sediment.
And the Chinese engineers say they screwed up!

I still think the way 'Questionall' put it was better though.

Originally posted by geo1066
reply to post by DataWraith

 

How true 'DataWraith'!

Okay, I'll give the 'Cliff notes' on it-

It's a really big dam in China.
It holds alot of water.
It's over major fault lines.
It has unrepairable cracks in it.
It's causing local climate changes.
It's collecting all the sewage from upstream.
It's collecting mega tons of sediment.
And the Chinese engineers say they screwed up!



I still think the way 'Questionall' put it was better though.

True , well done..

2nd line just in case it needs it
3rd as well just for the fun.

Wonderful thread. Thank you.

Could you post one of the pictures from your other thread here, so we can see the track of the eclipse in relation to the dam?

Also, what is different about the moon (super moon?). I didn't get that point.

reply to post by Pamie


Sorry - reread your post - a Super Moon - is when the moon is the closest to the Earth - it will also be a new moon - in other words - WATER is going to be affected by first the super moon and the Eclipse - and it going Directly over this dam!

I will post a pic. map

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/e7f0a9ab7e09.gif[/atsimg]



[edit on 20-7-2009 by questioningall]

reply to post by DataWraith


It's not a case of being lazy, I've spent countless hours trawling through ATS and found many large posts similar to this, only to spend half an hour reading through all the articles and sources only to find it

A: Not relevant to my interests
B: Relevant to my interests but flawed
C: Completely insane!!

I just wanted a summary or indication as to what the thread is about, now I have had one I'm going to read it. My time is precious!! I Don't think it was an unreasonable request.

You wouldn't pick up and read a book based on the title alone would you?

[edit on 20-7-2009 by Thebudweiserstuntman]

A staggering amount of work obviously went into this thread and I did read it all. Excellent work and extremely interesting.


I'm in no way qualified to even comment on this information but certainly something we all need to keep a close eye on.


The implications of a dam of this size should be obvious even to the layman however.

Again, excellent work. I encourage those more knowledgeable than myself to look over this data.

So what do you suggest for a solution ?

Hindsight is a great thing but it doesn't offer solutions to this now apparant problem.

Do you suggest they knock it down ? Where's all that water supposed to go before they knock it down ?

Not that the commies over there will knock it down, they've already blown too much money on it.

Of course there's the reality that nothing is going to happen and everything will be fine.

Another well thought out and interesting thread (apart from hokey predictions)

Regards to the effect on the Earths rotation I found an interesting article which sheds more light to its validity

Update, Dec. 29, 2004: Explainer spoke too quickly; you may still need to adjust your watch early next millennium. According to Richard Gross of NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory, it's possible that the Earth's rotation did indeed speed up slightly as a large chunk of the crust fell toward the planet's core, just as a spinning figure skater speeds up when she pulls in her arms.

"I used a model of the elastic properties of the Earth along with the seismically determined source properties of the earthquake to compute the change in the distribution of the Earth's mass caused by the earthquake, and hence its effect on the Earth's rotation, including the change in the length of the day and in the Earth's wobble," Gross told Explainer in an e-mail. "This calculation predicts that the earthquake should have shortened the length of the day by about 2.7 microseconds, and caused the Earth to wobble by about another 1 inch."

The part below is the bit worth reading though and taking note that the effect on the Earths wobble is purely speculative!

Stuart Sipkin, a research geophysicist who has been studying the quake at the USGS's National Earthquake Information Center, doesn't dispute the calculation but urges caution until the model's projection can be confirmed with observed data. Unfortunately, that's not possible; according to Gross, current length-of-day measurement techniques are accurate to only 20 microseconds.

slate.msn.com...

Well thank you for the research - I appreciate the long version, short version, and I'm sure all subsequent versions.

I personally haven't looked into the science behind what catastrophic natural phenomena can be triggered by total eclipses, but I'll remain a bit more cautious than usual during this time (and will await some cool pictures and video from the path of totality).

Again, for your info, according to the Timewave Zero program, this segment of time we've just entered matches the French 'Reign of Terror.' If you have no idea what 'Timewave Zero' is, please have a look at the intro of my thread Air France Flight 447: Timewave Zero Correlation or perhaps read through my more recent thread entitled Timewave Zero - Countdown to Transition.

The original 'reign of terror' began on Sept. 5 1793, and culminated during the months of June-July 1794. July 22-23, 2009 marks the compressed version of this period according to the program (which maps the cyclic nature of time).

1793-1794[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/976d5467c578.jpg[/atsimg]

July 19-23, 2009[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/28be99489772.jpg[/atsimg]

The timewave marks change or lack thereof in history, and provides dates for likely 'event windows.' The only specifics it provides are via the resonances of previous events, or themes. The themes over the next few days (through Thursday) could be that of 'terror,' 'losing one's head,' or the ongoing one of 'revolution.'

This surprisingly is already correlating quite well given what some people in the to-be-affected regions are expecting from the eclipse. Hopefully collective awareness and fear in this case do not bring about any disastrous event(s).

[edit on 20/7/09 by Evasius]