Expert Top Gun/Airline Pilots say Flight 77's maneuvers are impossible

Originally posted by Rafe_

 

For starters ,post your license in full and a picture of you piloting a boeing with you sitting in the cockpit holding a piece of paper that says "I am wee...proudbird ATS 2012"
(Sitting behind your desk with Flightsimulator does not count)

Then i will gladly do the same and tell you everything there is about me as you requested.
See you soon.

At the risk of having my post banned for deviating from the topic, I need to point out to everyone here that YOU MUST NOT POST ANY PERSONAL INFORMATION ON THE INTERNET. For one, there are such hard core fringe zealots on both sides of the discussion that it's not a good idea to give them any ability to track you down, and for another, the Internet is chock full of outright criminals who'd use the information for their own financial gain so as soon as you post your email address out in the open it'll be on a dozen spammer/phisher email lists.

I've already had one 9/11 conspiracy truther fanatic on another board do a web search on me in an attempt to "get me", up to and including forging my name and posting pornographic material to try and discredit me, and I've had two truther psychos right here on ATS post cryptic statements that "sooner or later I'm going to get what's coming to me", so if it can happen to me, it can happen to you. It's no joke.

This has been a public service announcement.

Originally posted by GoodOlDave

Originally posted by Rafe_

 

For starters ,post your license in full and a picture of you piloting a boeing with you sitting in the cockpit holding a piece of paper that says "I am wee...proudbird ATS 2012"
(Sitting behind your desk with Flightsimulator does not count)

Then i will gladly do the same and tell you everything there is about me as you requested.
See you soon.

At the risk of having my post banned for deviating from the topic, I need to point out to everyone here that YOU MUST NOT POST ANY PERSONAL INFORMATION ON THE INTERNET. For one, there are such hard core fringe zealots on both sides of the discussion that it's not a good idea to give them any ability to track you down, and for another, the Internet is chock full of outright criminals who'd use the information for their own financial gain so as soon as you post your email address out in the open it'll be on a dozen spammer/phisher email lists.

I've already had one 9/11 conspiracy truther fanatic on another board do a web search on me in an attempt to "get me", up to and including forging my name and posting pornographic material to try and discredit me, and I've had two truther psychos right here on ATS post cryptic statements that "sooner or later I'm going to get what's coming to me", so if it can happen to me, it can happen to you. It's no joke.

This has been a public service announcement.

Are you trying make me laugh?

It is working though i admit


Please don't put yourself in such great risk on my expense i beg off you.
And please save your fantasy stories of self importance for someone else.
Maybe you have more success posting like that on here:onemillionmoms.com...

Goodluck G.O.D

Originally posted by Rafe_

And second off all , i never heard of anyone named robert balsamo until his name got (overused?) mentioned in this thread.

lol...really. "Robert" Balsamo was not mentioned by his full name in this entire thread. Lucky guess, I suppose, your figuring out his first name if you had "never heard of anyone named robert balsamo" before. Amazing.

And I'm not surprised you lack the intellectual acumen to link the credibility issues between what Balsamo and his Flying Geeks claim and your comment about how some of those PfT Aero-Einsteins still working in aviation is supposed to "confirm their credibility". The mere fact they sign up to that digital lunatic ward and parrot obsequious and fawning and sycophantic platitudes to Their Leader is enough to underscore snowcrash911's comment.

reply to post by TrickoftheShade


Yeah, I remember this:

You left out one though - when Balsamo claimed that several officers of the Airline Pilots' Association (or whatever it's called) were members of Pffft.

Except, it's not "...or whatever it's called...."

It IS ALPA. I am a member in good standing.

Air Line Pilots Association is the proper term.

.

Originally posted by Rafe_

Originally posted by trebor451

Originally posted by Rafe_

And second off all , i never heard of anyone named robert balsamo until his name got (overused?) mentioned in this thread.

lol...really. "Robert" Balsamo was not mentioned by his full name in this entire thread. Lucky guess, I suppose, your figuring out his first name if you had "never heard of anyone named robert balsamo" before. Amazing.

And I'm not surprised you lack the intellectual acumen to link the credibility issues between what Balsamo and his Flying Geeks claim and your comment about how some of those PfT Aero-Einsteins still working in aviation is supposed to "confirm their credibility". The mere fact they sign up to that digital lunatic ward and parrot obsequious and fawning and sycophantic platitudes to Their Leader is enough to underscore snowcrash911's comment.

You are not the sharpest knife in the draw are you.

Rob balsamo and 911pilotsfortruth are mentioned so many times in here, a simple google search sufficed.


Nice try. but eat more spinach next time.

edit on 14-2-2012 by Rafe_ because: typo

Attention to detail, PfT'er. YOU were the one who said you never heard of him until his name got mentioned in this thread. I pointed out his full name was not mentioned in this thread and you depart the clue pattern. Words mean things, and if you might strive to be a bit more accurate with your postings perhaps you wouldn't look quite so foolish. Balsamo has experienced that (ACARS is the best example) but it hasn't stopped him from making a total fool of himself. I'm sure I'll come to regret that comment when the "trials" start, but hey....if you aren't living on the edge you're taking up too much space.

Doesn't matter. Anyone who hitches their aeronautical pony up to Balsamo or PfT is without a doubt more than a few knots shy of max Q.

Originally posted by trebor451

Originally posted by Rafe_

Originally posted by trebor451

Originally posted by Rafe_

And second off all , i never heard of anyone named robert balsamo until his name got (overused?) mentioned in this thread.

lol...really. "Robert" Balsamo was not mentioned by his full name in this entire thread. Lucky guess, I suppose, your figuring out his first name if you had "never heard of anyone named robert balsamo" before. Amazing.

And I'm not surprised you lack the intellectual acumen to link the credibility issues between what Balsamo and his Flying Geeks claim and your comment about how some of those PfT Aero-Einsteins still working in aviation is supposed to "confirm their credibility". The mere fact they sign up to that digital lunatic ward and parrot obsequious and fawning and sycophantic platitudes to Their Leader is enough to underscore snowcrash911's comment.

You are not the sharpest knife in the draw are you.

Rob balsamo and 911pilotsfortruth are mentioned so many times in here, a simple google search sufficed.


Nice try. but eat more spinach next time.

edit on 14-2-2012 by Rafe_ because: typo

Attention to detail, PfT'er. YOU were the one who said you never heard of him until his name got mentioned in this thread. I pointed out his full name was not mentioned in this thread and you depart the clue pattern. Words mean things, and if you might strive to be a bit more accurate with your postings perhaps you wouldn't look quite so foolish.

You dare call me foolish after that ^ response to what i wrote?
That is ironic.
Do you take yourself even serious??


(here is a tip : Next time try to read what you respond to, ....really)

Originally posted by Rafe_

Originally posted by trebor451

Originally posted by Rafe_

And second off all , i never heard of anyone named robert balsamo until his name got (overused?) mentioned in this thread.

lol...really. "Robert" Balsamo was not mentioned by his full name in this entire thread. Lucky guess, I suppose, your figuring out his first name if you had "never heard of anyone named robert balsamo" before. Amazing.

And I'm not surprised you lack the intellectual acumen to link the credibility issues between what Balsamo and his Flying Geeks claim and your comment about how some of those PfT Aero-Einsteins still working in aviation is supposed to "confirm their credibility". The mere fact they sign up to that digital lunatic ward and parrot obsequious and fawning and sycophantic platitudes to Their Leader is enough to underscore snowcrash911's comment.

You are not the sharpest knife in the draw are you.

'Rob balsamo' and 911pilotsfortruth are mentioned so many times in here, a simple google search sufficed.


Nice try. but eat more spinach next time.

edit on 14-2-2012 by Rafe_ because: typo

LOL yh! I have seen that name posted at least 30 times over almost all pages.Typing in that name with pilotsfortruth in google does sure ass hell do the trick.

just my 2 cents

If I may interupt this mutual admiration society thing we've got going here?



This personal back and forth nonsense will stop right now.

This isn't about socks, and who may, or may not, be using one. Or who has come back mulitiple times using them...

The topic, since many of you seem to have forgotten is:


Expert Top Gun/Airline pilots say Flight 77's maneuvers are impossible.

Just checked... It still is.

Discuss the topic, or find another forum. It's that simple.

reply to post by seagull

Expert Top Gun/Airline pilots say Flight 77's maneuvers are impossible.

Yup.......and those so-called "experts" have been shown to be wrong.

This has been well-discussed.....I presume?

Originally posted by ProudBird
reply to post by seagull

 

Expert Top Gun/Airline pilots say Flight 77's maneuvers are impossible.

Yup.......and those so-called "experts" have been shown to be wrong.

This has been well-discussed.....I presume?

I'd like to know what qualifies Kolstad as an "expert". Based on the litany of "credibility issues" the organization he claimed to represent has made over the years, he could hardly be classified as any sort of "expert" in anything.

That home-made Vg diagram isn't anything different than showing a picture of an automobile tachometer with a red-zone in the upper end of the gauge. Does it mean the automobile engine can't go into that zone? Heck no...of course it can. Any pilot, Top Gun or airline or ultralight or wingnut, who claims an aircraft cannot fly - and survive - into that right hand edge of the Vg diagram *as an absolute* - and Kolstad said such flight is "impossible" - deserves any ridicule that can be hurled their way.

reply to post by trebor451

I'd like to know what qualifies Kolstad as an "expert".

Well......the man is no doubt an aviator. It his judgement that is called into question.....judgement for getting involved in this circus known as "PilotsForTruth" (**).....and thus, sullying his (Kolstad's) reputation in the process.

ADDING (**)....I tried, over there.....at "PffffT". And, no.....many have misidentified "ME"......Rob Balsamo does NOT play "fair"....as a website "Administrator". He is an over-bearing "Lord" of the site that he maintains, and there is nothing balanced, nor reasoned. This is very, very important to note, and to understand.....

I feel a bit sorry for him (Kolstad).....I think he was "used".....and, thing is....once ANYTHING is put on the internet, it just never seems to ever disappear.....good OR bad....truth OR lie........

I will work on a full de-bunk of the 51-minute video, several pages back......holding my nose, and diving in......
(sigh)....

reply to post by ProudBird


That's right, I couldn't remember the organisation's correct styling. He literally claimed that regional officers of ALPA were card-carrying members of P4T but was unable to name even one. Like everything he's retailed (i use the term imprecisely, but quite often he is selling something) it turned out to be nonsense.

I often wonder what drives Balsamo, and indeed others like him. He has a sort of mischievous quality that often crosse over into actual trolling, and I think he just enjoys the wind-up half the time. No one could keep a thread like the TiffanyinLA one going (while pretending to be a porn star) for the length of time he did and actually be serious.

I suppose it must also inflate his ego very slightly when he's cited as an 'authority' by the more gullible Truthers.

reply to post by trebor451


Yes, but this is the POINT:

That home-made Vg diagram.....

The diagram is valid ONLY because of the laws of physics, and aerodynamics.....the graphing of the curves remain the same.

It was the incredibly DISINGENUOUS use of it (not a real Boeing diagram, in the first place....Transport Category airplanes aren't associated with such simplistic depictions).

But, to add to the NOISE that is so prevalent from nonsense sites like "PfffT", it served that function....AND fooled a lot of 'gullibles' along the way......so very, very sad......entertaining, though......but, ultimately, sad (if "truth" is the goal)......

Well ok, so maybe that diagram isn't so fake? Maybe learning how to make one is best left for pilots?



If you're going to be a pilot, you better understand flight envelopes extremely well, if you are going to have any chance of recovering your airplane in extreme circumstances, or when the airplane nears or exceeds the safe margins of the flight envelope. This video is particularly good at getting the message across so all can understand.

The diagram appears pertinent, and accurate according to the V-speeds of the aircraft:

en.wikipedia.org...

But just because the diagram is made by P4T, it is invalid?

Ok, then how about the OS loyalists make up the PROPER Vg diagram for the known V-speeds of a 757? I'd like to see your version. Why don't we all compare the two.

reply to post by TrueAmerican


Again......try to grasp this......a "Vg Diagram" is nothing but a graphical representation of well-known physics and aerodynamics. Here, on this planet.

However, the "use" of a generic "Vg" diagram that Rob Balsamo (or a minion) originally copied (AND< I know the original source) and then MODIFIED (aka, lied....by labelling it as coming from Boeing) was completely disingenuous to the facts, and was "used" to lie to people (laypersons) as a tool to "daze and confuse", and "bedazzle".

There is NOTHING that prevents an airplane from exceeding its Vmo (Vmo for Transport Category...."VNE" for smaller airplanes).....and surviving.

There CAN be structural damage, but this depends on not only the exceedance amount (airspeed exceedance ), but also IF there are also excessive g-forces involved during the airspeed excursion.


Balsamo likes to trot out his hyped-up "pretty" graphic......pure snake-oil distraction. Because of the bright and vibrant colors.

He is a fraud, plain and simple.

reply to post by ProudBird


One question:

Is the V-G diagram accurate or not? You people have already accused that the diagram is FAKE.

So prove that it is fake. If you have more knowledge than the pilots over at P4T, then this ought to be child's play.

Let's see your plot of envelopes and V-speeds. I want to compare the two. Are you denying me the ability for that comparison, or are you not knowledgeable enough to create the plot accurately? Which is it?

Originally posted by Rafe_
You are a joke.

From the link you posted

(meaningless snapshot snipped)

You cannot even get your links to agree with you

No, you are a joke. Balsamo went to pprune.org, posted his fake Vg diagram and got busted, as explained in my previous post.

You can quote mine with text or with snapshots, it's still quote mining, Balsamo claiming that Balsamo isn't lying isn't evidence. Of course Balsamo lies about him lying!

Yes, the Vg diagram is fake, and yes, this must be upsetting for you. Deal with it.

When do we get an apology from you?