Expert Top Gun/Airline Pilots say Flight 77's maneuvers are impossible

To all those who still believe the official story of 9/11, here's a big question for you:

Do you think that US Navy Top Gun pilots and commercial airline pilots with 40+ years of flying experience, logging 23,000 hours of air-time, know their stuff regarding aviation maneuvers?

If so, do you think you are qualified to argue or disagree with them?

See below what the world's top pilots said about Flight 77, the plane that hit the Pentagon on 9/11. Pay attention to the part in bold.

www.opednews.com...

U.S. Navy 'Top Gun' Pilot Questions 9/11

by Alan Miller Page 1 of 1 page(s)

September 5, 2007 - U.S. Navy Top Gun pilot, Commander Ralph Kolstad, started questioning the official account of 9/11 within days of the event. It just didnt make any sense to me, he said. And now 6 years after 9/11 he says, When one starts using his own mind, and not what one was told, there is very little to believe in the official story.

Now retired, Commander Kolstad was a top-rated fighter pilot during his 20-year Navy career. Early in his career, he was accorded the honor of being selected to participate in the Navys Top Gun air combat school, officially known as the U.S. Navy Fighter Weapons School. The Tom Cruise movie, Top Gun reflects the experience of the young Navy pilots at the school. Eleven years later, Commander Kolstad was further honored by being selected to become a Top Gun adversary instructor. While in the Navy, he flew F-4 Phantoms, A-4 Skyhawks, and F-14 Tomcats and completed 250 aircraft carrier landings.

Commander Kolstad had a second career after his 20 years of Navy active and reserve service and served as a commercial airline pilot for 27 years, flying for American Airlines and other domestic and international careers. He flew Boeing 727, 757 and 767, McDonnell Douglas MD-80, and Fokker F-100 airliners. He has flown a total of over 23,000 hours in his career.

Commander Kolstad is especially critical of the account of American Airlines Flight 77 that allegedly crashed into the Pentagon. He says, At the Pentagon, the pilot of the Boeing 757 did quite a feat of flying. I have 6,000 hours of flight time in Boeing 757s and 767s and I could not have flown it the way the flight path was described.

Commander Kolstad adds, I was also a Navy fighter pilot and Air Combat Instructor and have experience flying low altitude, high speed aircraft. I could not have done what these beginners did. Something stinks to high heaven!

He points to the physical evidence at the Pentagon impact site and asks in exasperation, Where is the damage to the wall of the Pentagon from the wings? Where are the big pieces that always break away in an accident? Where is all the luggage? Where are the miles and miles of wire, cable, and lines that are part and parcel of any large aircraft? Where are the steel engine parts? Where is the steel landing gear? Where is the tail section that would have broken into large pieces?

So, one of the world's best pilots says he CANNOT duplicate the maneuvers of Flight 77, and that it's not possible. What does that tell you?

Are you more qualified than Commander Ralph Kolstad to comment on the maneuver of a 757? Do you have similar qualifications that he does? Have you logged 23,000 hours of flight time? Have you flown fighter jets and 757's for 40 years? What are YOUR qualifications against his?



[edit on 15-7-2009 by WWu777]

Also, here is a similar statement from another experienced season pilot with 35 years experience flying commercial airlines and been on 100 combat missions for the Air Force. He explains below why Flight 77's maneuvers are impossible, even for the best pilots. Again, are you more qualified than he is about the plausibility of Flight 77's maneuvers on 9/11?! Pay attention to his words in bold below.

patriotsquestion911.com...

Capt. Russ Wittenberg, U.S. Air Force – Retired commercial pilot. Flew for Pan Am and United Airlines for 35 years. Aircraft flown: Boeing 707, 720, 727, 737, 747, 757, 767, and 777. 30,000+ total hours flown. Had previously flown the actual two United Airlines aircraft that were hijacked on 9/11 (Flight 93, which impacted in Pennsylvania, and Flight 175, the second plane to hit the WTC). Former U.S. Air Force fighter pilot with over 100 combat missions.



Video interview 9/11 Ripple Effect 8/07: "I flew the two actual aircraft which were involved in 9/11; the Fight number 175 and Flight 93, the 757 that allegedly went down in Shanksville and Flight 175 is the aircraft that's alleged to have hit the South Tower. I don't believe it's possible for, like I said, for a terrorist, a so-called terrorist to train on a [Cessna] 172, then jump in a cockpit of a 757-767 class cockpit, and vertical navigate the aircraft, lateral navigate the aircraft, and fly the airplane at speeds exceeding it's design limit speed by well over 100 knots, make high-speed high-banked turns, exceeding -- pulling probably 5, 6, 7 G's. And the aircraft would literally fall out of the sky. I couldn't do it and I'm absolutely positive they couldn't do it." americanbuddhist.net...

Article 7/17/05: "The government story they handed us about 9/11 is total B.S. plain and simple." … Wittenberg convincingly argued there was absolutely no possibility that Flight 77 could have "descended 7,000 feet in two minutes, all the while performing a steep 280 degree banked turn before crashing into the Pentagon's first floor wall without touching the lawn."…

"For a guy to just jump into the cockpit and fly like an ace is impossible - there is not one chance in a thousand," said Wittenberg, recalling that when he made the jump from Boeing 727's to the highly sophisticated computerized characteristics of the 737's through 767's it took him considerable time to feel comfortable flying." www.arcticbeacon.com...

Audio Interview 9/16/04: Regarding Flight 77, which allegedly hit the Pentagon. "The airplane could not have flown at those speeds which they said it did without going into what they call a high speed stall. The airplane won’t go that fast if you start pulling those high G maneuvers at those bank angles. … To expect this alleged airplane to run these maneuvers with a total amateur at the controls is simply ludicrous...

It’s roughly a 100 ton airplane. And an airplane that weighs 100 tons all assembled is still going to have 100 tons of disassembled trash and parts after it hits a building. There was no wreckage from a 757 at the Pentagon. … The vehicle that hit the Pentagon was not Flight 77. We think, as you may have heard before, it was a cruise missile." 911underground.com...

Editor's note: For more information on the impact at the Pentagon, see General Stubblebine, Colonel Nelson, Commander Muga, Lt. Col. Kwiatkowski, Lt. Col. Latas, Major Rokke, Capt. Davis, Barbara Honegger, April Gallop, Colonel Bunel, and Steve DeChiaro.

For more statements and analyses like these from many highly qualified veteran expert pilots with decades of experience in the Air Force and Commercial Airline Industry, see here:

patriotsquestion911.com...

Remember folks, these are NOT about theories, they are about FACTS.

I think this video sums up the whole Pentagon fiasco very well .......

www.citizeninvestigationteam.com...

There is something wrong with people that don't question the official account of 9/11. Maybe these people watch to much Television and need to stop drinking the Kool-Aid. I don't know what it is but if You really look into it its hard not to think something is really fishy.

Great post, S&F. I'm sure that almost everyone has seen it by now, but I still find the flight instructors statements in Loose Change 9/11 very interesting. Even though I don't truely know if his statements are 100% correct; never met the guy in person, but I have no reason to believe he lied(yet).

So the best pilots in the world say they couldnt do it?
Who flew them then ? better pilots ??

There has to be some one controlling the planes, or could it be easier to remote controll them ??

Remote controlled, whether they were Planes or Not!



John Lear discussed this with Art B in 04 or 05. He has had just about every aviation license if not every, and said much of the same.

Originally posted by WWu777
To all those who still believe the official story of 9/11, here's a big question for you:

Do you think that US Navy Top Gun pilots and commercial airline pilots with 40+ years of flying experience, logging 23,000 hours of air-time, know their stuff regarding aviation maneuvers?

If so, do you think you are qualified to argue or disagree with them?

Hmmm. According to the flight recorder log...which Pilots for 9/11 truth accept as legitimate...all the plane really did was fly around in a big circle. I'm not a pilot so I wouldn't know, but I would think "flying around in a circle" would be the very next thing they would teach pilots right after "flying in a straight line".

SO, the big question for YOU really is- what's so difficult about flying in a circle that US Navy Top Gun pilots and commercial airline pilots have a hard time doing it?

I saw that remote guided missile on tv once prolly this kind of stuff can make all kind of acrobatic figures before attacking its target. It kind looks like a plane too.

The problem with Flight 77 is there is no video footage of it, so the actual maneuvers were seen by eyewitnesses. From what was described, it does seem that it was very much the case, that the plane did indeed make this incredible turns.

My stepson's friend is a pilot for BA, who was also in the RAF, and he said that while the two planes that hit the WTC were not impossible in their maneuvers, he doesn't really know what to think about the Pentagon. Since no video exists, he has to go by what was reported, and from what he read from reports from the Pentagon, he's puzzled. taking reports at face value and given the speed and sharpness of the turns stated, he doesn't think that a person would stay conscious or coherent during such a feat, especially ameteurs who were not in super human condition.

I still think the possibility exists that it was run by remote control.

Really good stuff!


I have a hard time convincing people to question the official 9/11 story, not because of any lack of evidence such as this, but because they are unwilling to accept the fact that our government might be involved.

I suggest you guys focus more on figuring out solid methods of convincing skeptics that the US government could and would do such a thing, BEFORE trying to convince them it actually happened.

Originally posted by GoodOlDave

Originally posted by WWu777
To all those who still believe the official story of 9/11, here's a big question for you:

Do you think that US Navy Top Gun pilots and commercial airline pilots with 40+ years of flying experience, logging 23,000 hours of air-time, know their stuff regarding aviation maneuvers?

If so, do you think you are qualified to argue or disagree with them?

Hmmm. According to the flight recorder log...which Pilots for 9/11 truth accept as legitimate...all the plane really did was fly around in a big circle. I'm not a pilot so I wouldn't know, but I would think "flying around in a circle" would be the very next thing they would teach pilots right after "flying in a straight line".

SO, the big question for YOU really is- what's so difficult about flying in a circle that US Navy Top Gun pilots and commercial airline pilots have a hard time doing it?

I'm afraid you don't know the official story. The official story and NIST said that Flight 77 performed those maneuvers that were described above. Look it up. I think the maneuvers were reported by radar too.

Now, expert pilots with four decades of experience say it's impossible. Do you have any qualifications that match up to theirs?


[edit on 15-7-2009 by WWu777]

reply to post by GoodOlDave


I can't speak to the details, but what I know of it is that they turned in a tight circle at high speed for an extended period of time. That kind of force can buckle the wings, not to mention the fact that the plane would be sliding laterally downwards while it was banking. In addition, the passengers would be in severe anguish during such a maneuver.

Originally posted by kadugen
Really good stuff!


I have a hard time convincing people to question the official 9/11 story, not because of any lack of evidence such as this, but because they are unwilling to accept the fact that our government might be involved.

I suggest you guys focus more on figuring out solid methods of convincing skeptics that the US government could and would do such a thing, BEFORE trying to convince them it actually happened.

If you know people who can't believe the government would do such a thing, show them this:

en.wikipedia.org...

abcnews.go.com...

reply to post by rogerstigers


roger,

Here is the NTSB animation. The YT poster is actually one of the P4T guys, and he adds little comments in that, I find, stupid personally.

He says he's a pilot, this 'johndoeX', but at the 00:10 mark he adds a text frame asking "Why didn't the pilot just push the nose over..".

At that point in the simulation, you can see that although the terrorist pilot has sighted the Pentagon, he is still at 8,000 feet, and far too close to simply push the nose over and expect to hit it!!! 'johndoeX', if he's a pilot with experience in jets, should know this....

I used this particular vid, from this YT upload, because it comes from a P4T person!!! Sorta seems they aren't all telling the same story, eh?

He makes some stupid text comments for an alleged 'pilot', but I'll let you watch:



You will clearly see that the airplane doesn't exceed about 35 degrees bank in that "impossible" turn (!!) that Top Gun and company claim.

BTW, roger, a 30 degree bank has a G-load of about 1.3 Gs

Here is a calculator to see for yourselves....just plug in the numbers.

www.csgnetwork.com...

I will go find the RADES image showing the ground track of AAL77, so you can measure it and see that the radius of turn is consistent with a normal 30-35 degree banked turn.

i40.photobucket.com...


For comparison, when you are on a passenger jet, the standard bank used is a maximum of 30 degrees, for comfort. In fact, on the B757/767 (and newer B737s), there is an audible recorded voice that annunciates "Bank Angle" when you exceed 35 degrees.

Here: Watch this dude, NOT a pilot, fly and land a B737 simulator.



[edit on 15 July 2009 by weedwhacker]

reply to post by weedwhacker


Hmm.. Never have seen that animation. And yeah, I think the comments were a little trite. As for the john doe flying the sim, it doesn't surprise me at all. I don't have any real world flight experience, but I have no doubt I would be able to at least control it and I know from flight sim experience that those things get hard to control at hight speed, so nose diving into the pentagon would be a precision strike to some degree.

Like I said in my post, I am not really an expert. The sim you posted does show a rather casual pace at a slow airspeed with no extreme banking.

Course a plane like that in restricted airspace moving that slow and casual should have stuck out like a sore thumb, so I agree with the repeated calls of "where are the fighters"?

Originally posted by WWu777
I'm afraid you don't know the official story. The official story and NIST said that Flight 77 performed those maneuvers that were described above. Look it up. I think the maneuvers were reported by radar too.

Now, expert pilots with four decades of experience say it's impossible. Do you have any qualifications that match up to theirs?

I'm not going by the "official story". I'm going by the story of the conspiracy theorists who claim the craft made "a complex 330 degree turn". This is a fancy way of saying the plane flew around almost in a complete circle.

So the question I'm asking is, just what is so impossible about turning almost in a complete circle that expert pilots with four decades of experience can't do it? They're not here for me to ask them the question, so I'm asking you becuase you obviously subscribe to the claim that expert pilots with four decades of experience can't fly in a circle.

reply to post by weedwhacker


Wow, weedwhacker, never seen that animation before. So basically, that was what the witnesses were describing? It doesn't seem that fast or tight. seeing it.

I will have to send a link to my stepson to pass on to his buddy, so he can see. Don't think he's ever seen that before, since he really has no interest in 9/11 research or CTs.

reply to post by rogerstigers

"where are the fighters"?

Well, that's really not a question that was going to bother the terrorists.

Course a plane like that in restricted airspace moving that slow and casual should have stuck out like a sore thumb...

Yeah, the Washington TRACON had tagged his primary target, and the airspace wasn't really "restricted", exactly. Other than being 'Class B' airspace, which simply means to be legal you need a transponder and positive control by ATC.

"slow and casual"?? The airpeed indicator shows about 280-290 knots during the turn, that's only slightly above the FAA-maximum "legal" speed of 250 knots below 10,000 feet MSL. Note how, after lining up with the pentagon, speed increases, as does rate of descent....and you can see the jerking of the control wheel, even though the airplane doesn't react exactly with each jerk. That's how it works...thre are many, many sensor inputs, including those that measure control wheel motion....

posted by ChemBreather
So the best pilots in the world say they couldnt do it?
Who flew them then ? better pilots ??

There has to be some one controlling the planes, or could it be easier to remote controll them ??

Much easier and much safer to remote pilot. Over-ride the flight computer and the plane can turn and dive and climb with greater G forces, and the pilot will not black out from the higher Gs. Of course if there is nobody in the plane, then blackouts don't matter anyway.

By them, you must mean the flights 11 and 175, because Flight 77 did not crash into the tiny hole in the Pentagon wall, and Flight 93 did not crash into the tiny hole in the strip mine at Shanksville.

Flight 77 disappeared somewhere up near Ohio and its replacement decoy aircraft flew Over the Naval Annex and North of the Citgo and off to somewhere unknown.

If it was actually Flight 93 over Pennsylvania, it flew off over Indian Lake and to somewhere unknown.