"Evidence" from the birth certificate conspiracy, my analysis

You know, I hear about these "people" that don't believe that PRESIDENT Obama was born in the US but I never thought they actually existed. I always thought that that was an invention by the conservative media and that no person on their right mind would ever believe something as preposterous as that. Well, apparently I was wrong.

Damn people, please stop watching FoxNews and listening to the Rush Limbaugh radio show! Read what says under the ATS logo. DENY IGNORANCE. Please don't bring this trash to this board!

Originally posted by Fanatic
You know, I hear about these "people" that don't believe that PRESIDENT Obama was born in the US but I never thought they actually existed. I always thought that that was an invention by the conservative media and that no person on their right mind would ever believe something as preposterous as that. Well, apparently I was wrong.

Damn people, please stop watching FoxNews and listening to the Rush Limbaugh radio show! Read what says under the ATS logo. DENY IGNORANCE. Please don't bring this trash to this board!

Perhaps you should pratice what you preach, DENY IGNORANCE, if you can't see what's going on around you, you need help.
Maybe you should ask one of your aliens to give you a up date, now that's something you can really put your arms around, and get a firm grip on aliens.

You will will be one of the ones crying when # hits the fan.

By the way your signature sucks, I pity you.

no offense, I hope he was born in U.S. but I have no confidence in our Government their all crooks, attorneys professional liers, Politician = Attorney=crooks, skum.

Originally posted by Southern Guardian

Originally posted by Totakeke
Okay, I read the OP, but it still doesn't answer my questions. Certainly it would be easier

Easier for what? Say this me now, will the mentality of these individuals change whether Obama shows his long form or not? It seems to me this is just a matter of making demands because you "just dont like things the way they are".

Nope the mentality wont change. Sure some will say ok i give up and i believe now but others wont.

There will always be some conspiracy somewhere about some leader regardless. Its just inevitable and the best way to deal with it aint meeting the demands of the looneys behind the computer screens just because that only makes them spread further "conspiracies". Its with evidence.

You will never end conspiracies with evidence. Hence the nature of the beast your trying to slay. It cannot be slain. It just falls and rises again with a different appearance. Its why i enjoy this website so much. I dont count myself as one of your loonies behind the computer as you called them, however i do enjoy the entertainment value of conspiracies. its like reading a murder novel or watching a magic show. At the end of the day i am grounded back in reality of life and feel like i got to escape in a different world for just a little bit. I do not necessarily want to take away the illusion of things because illusion has its place just like conspiracies do. It makes us question and wonder. It keeps us from becoming mindless sheep following the herd.

I give you a star and flag for this post because you did your work and put alot of effort into this but if it was for the effect of convincing people with proof you will not succeed. Look at roswell and JFK etc etc. The more proof that is provided to people just seems like its manufactured. There is an excuse for every piece of evidence that is shown. However that being said MY final thoughts on the whole thing is this, hes your president and nothing is going to change that. It is what it is and thats that.

Originally posted by AlGoreIthem
Isn't fact check.org owned by the obama campaign?

Do you have evidence of this?

isnt the freerepublic, israeli insider and WND in the tank for the republicans and conservatives? Your telling us here factcheck.org is bias and yet you folks continue to source your information from websites that were in the tank for Bush all these years. Im sorry but if your going to go on about bias and "clean sources" I suggest you stop getting your information from fringe websites as well.

reply to post by pavil


You noticed I said every president Pavil? You've got 40 more to go, and I want those long form birth certificates, if you can just get me those 43 long form birth certificates of the other presidents along with the hospital names.

Originally posted by Fanatic
You know, I hear about these "people" that don't believe ...

People are in quotes, eh?
Yes, these AMERICANS who want the Contitution followed are PEOPLE.
No need to put them in quotes.

Originally posted by Byteman
His dual-citizenship at birth, disqualifies him as a Natural born citizen.
It does not matter if it was dropped when he turned 21. The constitution is very clear on the issue...dual citizen at birth = not Natural born.
The damage is done.

Wrong. The constitution actually says nothing explicitly regarding dual citizenship, the claim you make above has no sources to back it up. In addition to this Obama had not held dual citizenship for over 20 years, was just a natural born citizen with american citizenship for that period of time. Any dual citizenship to speak of became irrelevant by the age of 21, in addition to that the US did not recognize the laws of Kenya regarding citizenship at all, the laws were irrelevant to the constitution and the laws governing the US. Also Kenya did not allow dual citizenship for adults in anycase, it stripped any recognition of Obama having that citizenship in the first place anyway by the age of 21.

So for you say the constitution did not allow somebody to become president who had dual citizenship, well:

1) Obama most certainly didnt have dual citizenship at the time of his confirmation as president.

2) Nowhere in the constitution does it clearly define dual citizenship neither does it specifically say the president should never have attained dual citizenship in the first place.

So what prevented anyone from lying to the government about his time in country?

Just adding more speculation to the conspiracy and thats it. Take into consideration its one thing to lie to a small rural public school with some registration the folks there hardly look into, its another thing to lie to the government itself. At the end of the day your using speculation now to carry on the idea that he had indonesian citizenship, and thats it, speculation.

Indonesia still would not have allowed him to gain citizenship there because they specifically did not allow dual citizenship, and im sorry, Obamas natural born american citizenship was not going away. The laws of the US conflicted with that of Indonesia because as a child with natural born citizenship you could not loose your citizenship in the US under any circumstances, and at the time the Indonesian laws were specific to everybody, that is not dual citizenship under any circumstances.

Plus you don't really have any proof that someone lied for Obama

Why do I need proof? The laws at the time in Indonesia were specific. If the laws in one country during the 1960s specifically prohibited the selling of alchohol, and you see a document from the 1960s in that same country confirming that one shop was selling alchohol, would it be inaccurate to say the shop was working against the law at the time? Would you need proof of this, or would common sense take hold?

There has been no Birth Certificate presented, only a "Certificate of Live Birth"...and yes...there is a legal distinction between the two

Say that to most of the other 44 presidents who used that short form birth certificate as well.

I must say, thanks for actually addressing what I posted in the OP. Although you didnt provide any sources atleast you read what I presented.

SG

[edit on 16-7-2009 by Southern Guardian]

Originally posted by mcguyvermanolo
Thank you for your articulated disinfo. Aiside from the fact that we've not seen his proper long form document, the birth of Barry Soetoro was witnessed by both his Aunt and his GrandMother who were in the Hospital Room in Kenya.

Nice try.

Are you with NSA'a Q group? An intern?

Watch "The Obama Deception", we have ONE PARTY.

conspiracy, speculation, accusation after accusation with no sources or evidence to back up. This is how people deny ignorance these days. If you are really scared at the truths I posted in the OP I suggest you address them directly with the garbage you've been feeding yourself over the last few months. I'd be happy to address them for you.

Originally posted by Southern Guardian
reply to post by pavil

 

You noticed I said every president Pavil? You've got 40 more to go, and I want those long form birth certificates, if you can just get me those 43 long form birth certificates of the other presidents along with the hospital names.

I presented EVERY PRESIDENT born in a hospital with the exact hospital and date, except for #44. I also went back to 1974 and gave the precise place of birth of every modern President, except for #44. See any trends here?

Just for a little more, you can research the rest, I hate lazy ATS'ers.

Nixon.....18061 Yorbe Linda Boulevard Yorba Linda, Orange County, California, USA

LBJ.....Johnson was born near Stonewall, Texas, on August 27, 1908, in a small farmhouse in a poor area on the Pedernales River. It is now the LBJ Ranch National Historic Park.

JFK...83 Beals Street in Brookline, Massachusetts

Eisenhower....located at 208 East Day Street in Denison, Texas,

Truman..... Ya got me..... He was born on May 8, 1884 in Lamar, Missouri.

FDR.... 4097 Albany Post Road, Hyde Park, NY 12538.

Hoover...Herbert Hoover National Historic Site is at 110 Parkside Drive, West Branch, Iowa 52358.

Coolidge...3780 Route 100A Plymouth, VT 05056

Harding....380 Mount Vernon Ave. in Marion, OH.


Now, you were about to tell me what hospital our current President was born at, weren't you?????? You do know which one it is, right? I did the last 15 sitting Presidents, surely you can do the current one for me. Thanks.


Nice job trying to keep your argument intact.

Originally posted by pavil

Originally posted by Southern Guardian
reply to post by pavil

 

You noticed I said every president Pavil? You've got 40 more to go, and I want those long form birth certificates, if you can just get me those 43 long form birth certificates of the other presidents along with the hospital names.

I presented EVERY PRESIDENT born in a hospital with the exact hospital and date,

Wonderful, you have their long form birth certificates to go since this is the center point of your arguments.

SG

Originally posted by Southern Guardian
Wonderful, you have their long form birth certificates to go since this is the center point of your arguments.

I don't think that is the center point of my argument, thank you. My point is I know the precise place of birth of almost every President since the 1920's except for Obama.

I'll ask again nicely, where exactly was Obama born? All the Presidents exact places of birth are a matter of historical record, save Obama's. We don't know the precise place of his birth, which is why the long form BC would be extremely helpful. Please tell me his precise place of birth, which can be verified and I will be happy.

You don't find that at least odd?

Originally posted by pavil

Originally posted by Southern Guardian
Wonderful, you have their long form birth certificates to go since this is the center point of your arguments.

I don't think that is the center point of my argument, thank you.

Then what is? You dont seem to provide any evidence of Obama having been born off soil other than the fact "his not showing all these documents" then you continuously request for his long form. Are you telling me this entire thing is based on your suspicions Pavil?

Now Im asking you now to show me the long form birth certificates of the rest 44 please. You've done the hospitals, Im waiting for that list of long forms.

SG.

Originally posted by jmotley

I disagree No matter what he does people will find another reason to say he is not eligible. If he releases it now the nay sayers will just say it took to long now we think it's a fake.

I can't speak for others, but if the President were to allow the State of Hawaii to release his long form BC, with the Hospital, Doctor, Parents DOB ect, I would be satisfied. Heck, I never knew there was a short form BC, all the ones in my family have the Hospital, Doctor, DOB, time of Birth, weight, height, Parents ect. on it.

How can we even figure out his horoscope??????

reply to post by Southern Guardian


Southern Guardian?

By the way you word yourself, I would say you're a lawyer and you work for ACORN.

The gig is up, he is not a natural born citizen and there is real evidence that proves it. In a very short time, a little lady from the south is going to present to a group of people who will not turn their back on the people, on this country and on that piece of paper that protects that little word called FREEDOM.

You people who are trying to defend him are stupid. WHY NOT JUST SHOW THE WHOLE WORLD FOR THAT MATTER HIS

" ORIGINAL LONG FORM BIRTH CERTIFICATE" that was given to him IF he was born in the United States?


By not doing so, it proves beyond the doubt that he does not have one and therefor was not born on this soil!!!!!!!!!

If he does not provide the proof that WE THE PEOPLE need to see, he will be proven beyond any doubt that he is a fraud!!!!!

We are still at war people, wonder what he would be charged with? HIGH TREASON IN TIME OF WAR? WOW?

And when it is all said and over with, you will be just as guilty as he and they are!!!!! Because deep down in your gut, you know he was not born here.

Even if he was, the documents that have been provided do not prove that he was born on U. S. Soil.


I just got back form G- Town, I had a chat with an old friend of my grandfather, they were old fishing buddies, he is on his last term as a sitting rep. We were talking about Obama and all of a sudden he said this. and I quote" You know that there Obama first ran as a joke just to see the reaction he would git." end quote.

I consider myself a rather tough individual considering by background, but when I heard him say that it made me sick to my stomach. That confirmed to me in stone that the evidence a little lady has in her possession is real as it gets.

When she gets finished, slick willy himself will not be able to even make a comment. A truthful one anyway.

Time is finally on the side of WE THE PEOPLE who believe in the law and that no one is above it.


A True and Faithful Patriot,

Eye of Eagle
" SEMPER FI "

Star and flagged.

Great research OP, thank you for taking the time.

Originally posted by 5thElement

Originally posted by Totakeke
Why doesn't Obama simply show everyone his long-form birth certificate and end this once and for all?

If both forms are perfectly legal, what's the difference ?
How is long-form more legal or acceptable then a short one ?

I am scratching my head on this one as well.

I suppose my own birth certificate, and consequently everyone else's, is invalid because it doesn't contain every detail found in the long form.

So by this logic, unless all of you have a copy of your long form, your citizenship is in question.

Ignore the fact that either one is legal and valid in the United States.

- Lee

Originally posted by pavil
I can't speak for others, but if the President were to allow the State of Hawaii to release his long form BC, with the Hospital, Doctor, Parents DOB ect, I would be satisfied.

Right, Im sure you can account for the rest the birthers? Im sure that will stop you from supporting the rest of the garbage circulating this man on a daily basis from the rightwing fringe.

Your satisfaction Pavil, its really irrelevant in the world of the rightwing fringe blogosphere. There will always be some conspiracy, always be some issue, always be something else. Your "satisfaction" on your demands in one conspiracy will not change those of other conspiracies, will not change those of others. We know it doesnt work that way.

At the end of the day this is a conspiracy based on suspicions and speculation, as many of the other conspiracies are, and as many other new conspiracies will come in time. Taking to demands of one conspiracy will not end the nature of these conspiracies and to how they form. This arguments that it will somehow "satisfy you and your quesioning" is a moot to the argument of the misleading garbage being posted on a daily basis.

reply to post by Southern Guardian


Text

This debate has very little to do with the long form birth certificate (which, of course, would only cost $12 to obtain a certified copy of; sure makes a heck of alot of sense to hire an army of lawyers and spend in excess of $900,000 to keep its existence, if indeed it does exist, hidden...but thats an issue for another day)...

If you had any legal background, you would have, before attempting to sound intelligent, taken a look at Supreme Court precedent regarding the question of what qualifies one to be a "natural born citizen". And you would have discovered that, in order to be a natural born citizen, one needs to not only have been born on US soil, but one's parents must be US citizens at the time of birth. Since Obama himself has acknowledged that his Father was a citizen of Kenya at the time of his birth, he has, by his own admission, made it clear that he is not constitutionally qualified to serve as President.

So all this blabber about the birth certificate, while intriguing, is pointless...all it does is provide a vehicle for you drones to continue to muddle the issue, all the while ignoring the obvious, i.e., that Obama himself has admitted that he is unqualified....

Originally posted by EYEOFEAGLE
Southern Guardian?

By the way you word yourself, I would say you're a lawyer and you work for ACORN.

Because I used the words of the constitution itself against this garbage circulated day by day, because I cite correct sources for my arguments I must be some evil lawyer working for ACORN.....

By the way you do know that ACORN was the one itself that announce its own contracted workers made up false voter names? which didnt even register once revealed right? Do you know that to this day none of the fringers have proven that acorn actually forged votes in the 2008 elections? This entire hysteria over the matter rose when ACORN themselves announced it.

By the way you know there was issues with the voting machines in west Virginia last year where the votes were going for McCain when they picked Obama. Did you hear about this matter? It didnt make it big because it was probably a faulty machine. I didnt see you folks strongly denounce this.

he is not a natural born citizen and there is real evidence that proves it.

Evidence to which, for the last two years since this conspiracy, has not been presented.

In a very short time, a little lady from the south is going to present to a group of people who will not turn their back on the people,

Does that include the same people that voted for Obama in 2008? If this little lady has something prove, by all means its her right. If she has evidence against Obama, I think she should present to all of us, however I get the feeling this little lady, if we are talking about same one, is the same one that came up with garbage in prior lawsuits, which was then eventually dismissed.

FREEDOM.

What is freedom? Is that when you overthrow the democratically elected president of these United states under the constitution because you "dont like him" and you are "suspicious" of him?

ORIGINAL LONG FORM BIRTH CERTIFICATE"

Show me the long form for the rest of the 44 presidents. Show me where in the constitution does it state he is obligated to present his long form and only his long form?

Faithful Patriot,

I'll re-name that for you. "Faithful birther"

SG

Originally posted by Southern Guardian

Then what is? You dont seem to provide any evidence of Obama having been born off soil other than the fact "his not showing all these documents" then you continuously request for his long form. Are you telling me this entire thing is based on your suspicions Pavil?

Now Im asking you now to show me the long form birth certificates of the rest 44 please. You've done the hospitals, Im waiting for that list of long forms.

SG.

This is getting rather pointless, it's fairly obvious to all here that you don't know the precise place of Obama's birth. I readily admit, I don't know it, which is extremely odd considering that I can find out every other Presidents exact place of birth save, Truman's.

Your right, I don't have the Long Forms, but I do have the exact places of birth of all those other Presidents. Not having the long forms does not invalidate the exact places of birth of those other Presidents. The only reason I would like to see Obama's Long BC is precisely that we don't know exactly where he was born. I have seen other BC's from Hawaii around the time of Obama's birth, they detail the exact place of birth, time, Parents, Doctor/Attendent and dates.

Respectfully again, do you have Obama's precise place of birth?

We are going around in circles here, You can't definitively say where Obama was exactly born. I would like some evidence of where he was exactly born, do you have any?

Please answer my questions, I have answered yours to the best of my ability.

reply to post by pavil


Again, forget the birth certificate and where he was born. That is not the primary issue here, but rather an interesting sub-plot...y dont u address my inquiry: if his Father was a Kenyan citizen at the time of his birth, how can he be considered a "natural born citizen" under the Constitution and Supreme Court precedent??