Jesus Christ is the only way

reply to post by Evangelical

Really? It's true? I don't see any evidence.

Here's an idea for all religions: instead of forcing your opinions and beliefs on people who don't share the same mindset, prove it. If you can prove your religion to be true, then it will be accepted as fact. Until you can do that, you have no right to force your anti-gay views on homosexual couples, or your creation beliefs in the classroom.

Originally posted by rubbertramp
some of these laws are quite twisted in my opinion.

Some??? Only some?! They are the antithesis of anything a ration, normal, sane human being would ever lay down as a code to live by.

reply to post by Evangelical


Wait a second. So you are saying that thinking for ourselves and coming to our own conclusions about the validity of our own beliefs makes us "SHEEP" ? I think you may have misunderstood the meaning of the term sheeple.

reply to post by suomichris

Or, you'd just adjust your beliefs.

No, as I said, I wouldn't believe anymore. It'd be pointless. The "point" of Jesus' story wouldn't be there anymore. I wouldn't start interpreting the Bible allegorically either. It would be a fraud and worthless if Christianity could be proven false.

This is what Christians have always done in the face of demonstrable challenges to their faith...

What are these "challenges" that you're referring to?

reply to post by Evangelical


Hate is a negative emotion. Negativity is part of the Dark Side. The Dark Side belongs to your Satan, does it not? So, if you hate, you are doing Satan's work, are you not?

And I do believe Jesus spoke of Peace and Love. Pretty much the opposite of Hate, isn't it???

Originally posted by suomichris

Originally posted by rubbertramp
some of these laws are quite twisted in my opinion.

Some??? Only some?! They are the antithesis of anything a ration, normal, sane human being would ever lay down as a code to live by.

lol, come on, i was hoping for a comment, our team of preachers have done nothing but ignore my inquiries in 2 threads.
i'm a wishful human, i hope for discussion.

All the Law applies but not the punishments. Jesus paid the price and we live in Grace. That is why you don't go around stoning people.

And slavery is a sin in the Bible but it does not attemp to end that sin anymore than it attempts to end homosexuality or adultury. We are sinful. It is in that way persons argued that slavery could be tolerated. The bible encourages Christians in Philemon to manumit slaves.

reply to post by rubbertramp

if the passages in the old test. are accurate, and should be followed. what about the rest of mosaic law?

Christians don't follow the Mosaic Law for two reasons.

1. Christ fulfilled the law for us so we're freed from it.
2. Christians, in varying degrees, are, whether they'll admit it or not, are dispensationalist. The Law had a purpose in God's overall plan of salvation and we've moved past that because of God's ever unfolding plan of redemption. If you google it, you can find better definition.

reply to post by rubbertramp


Well, while the xtians decide on a response, I would like to point out that many of the rules of leviticus were quite rational given the time and place in which they were written. They are rules for surviving as a nomad in the desert. Problem is that they became a religion and therefore can no longer be dropped now that they aren't being nomadic in a desert.

The homosexuality thing does grate on my nerves, though. As I recall, the Greek and Aramaic actually didn't speak of man on man action - that came about due to translation issues. *shrug*

Originally posted by JaxonRoberts
reply to post by Evangelical

 

Hate is a negative emotion. Negativity is part of the Dark Side. The Dark Side belongs to your Satan, does it not? So, if you hate, you are doing Satan's work, are you not?

And I do believe Jesus spoke of Peace and Love. Pretty much the opposite of Hate, isn't it???

Jesus told us to hate our own family in relation to loving Him. If they would not love Jesus don't alllow your love of them to lead you from Christ. Even if you must turn from them.

God hates sin, and so do we. God is the righteous judge. And He will judge.

Originally posted by octotom
reply to post by Jomina

 

there are many people and groups worldwide who are being persecuted, violently, for a LOT of different reasons.

I agree, and acknowledge that. There is a tendency to believe, in the Western world at least, that Christianity makes up it's persecution and my goal was to prove that that's not true.

(i know, you're german, so not YOUR doorstop.. but anyone who's american )

No, I'm American. I just live in Germany for the time being.

are still stuck on reservations and treated like low class trash.

I'm sorry that that happens in whatever part of the country that you live in. Where I'm from, South Florida, the Seminoles aren't forced onto reservations. There are some, but the people choose to live there. Growing up, I never saw the Seminoles treated badly either. People often had a lot of respect for them.

Some tribes have made the best of it and are just now starting to pull themselves out of their poverty. Some are not so lucky, and are still stuck... you can check on the Lakota's for that kind of thing. some of those res's... oh god it makes me really want to believe in satan, I tell ya the truth.


Anyhow, I understand what you were getting at, just had to say what i did because so many christians (not all, mind you) think that they are the only ones being persecuted, and it's just not so.

And ahh sorry I just saw you were in germany, didn't do any back checking hehe

Originally posted by octotom
reply to post by rubbertramp

 

if the passages in the old test. are accurate, and should be followed. what about the rest of mosaic law?

Christians don't follow the Mosaic Law for two reasons.

1. Christ fulfilled the law for us so we're freed from it.
2. Christians, in varying degrees, are, whether they'll admit it or not, are dispensationalist. The Law had a purpose in God's overall plan of salvation and we've moved past that because of God's ever unfolding plan of redemption. If you google it, you can find better definition.

by evangelical.
All the Law applies but not the punishments. Jesus paid the price and we live in Grace. That is why you don't go around stoning people.

And slavery is a sin in the Bible but it does not attemp to end that sin anymore than it attempts to end homosexuality or adultury. We are sinful. It is in that way persons argued that slavery could be tolerated. The bible encourages Christians in Philemon to manumit slaves.

don't these 2 replies contradict themselves?

[edit on 14-7-2009 by rubbertramp]

Originally posted by octotom
reply to post by rubbertramp

 

if the passages in the old test. are accurate, and should be followed. what about the rest of mosaic law?

Christians don't follow the Mosaic Law for two reasons.

1. Christ fulfilled the law for us so we're freed from it.
2. Christians, in varying degrees, are, whether they'll admit it or not, are dispensationalist. The Law had a purpose in God's overall plan of salvation and we've moved past that because of God's ever unfolding plan of redemption. If you google it, you can find better definition.

Good post, star for you. That was my general understanding of the nature of the New Testament as well.

Originally posted by octotom
reply to post by rubbertramp

 

if the passages in the old test. are accurate, and should be followed. what about the rest of mosaic law?

Christians don't follow the Mosaic Law for two reasons.

1. Christ fulfilled the law for us so we're freed from it.
2. Christians, in varying degrees, are, whether they'll admit it or not, are dispensationalist. The Law had a purpose in God's overall plan of salvation and we've moved past that because of God's ever unfolding plan of redemption. If you google it, you can find better definition.

Okay, but then why is the bit about homosexuality still quoted up and down, but you don't see Christians boycotting shellfish distributers?

reply to post by Jomina

And ahh sorry I just saw you were in germany, didn't do any back checking hehe

No worries. I don't think that I've ever seen you on ATS before, so, you wouldn't know that I only live in Germany anyway.

That's good to hear that some more tribes are starting to pull themselves out of the mire. I hope that the rest will too.

Originally posted by rogerstigers
reply to post by Evangelical

 

Wait a second. So you are saying that thinking for ourselves and coming to our own conclusions about the validity of our own beliefs makes us "SHEEP" ? I think you may have misunderstood the meaning of the term sheeple.

You may be thinking for yourself but you are still denying truth.

Jesus is the Christ and it is proved in many ways, you just ignore the evidence.

Originally posted by octotom
reply to post by suomichris

 

Or, you'd just adjust your beliefs.

No, as I said, I wouldn't believe anymore. It'd be pointless. The "point" of Jesus' story wouldn't be there anymore. I wouldn't start interpreting the Bible allegorically either. It would be a fraud and worthless if Christianity could be proven false.

Okay, you wouldn't. I think you could find people who would, though...

This is what Christians have always done in the face of demonstrable challenges to their faith...

What are these "challenges" that you're referring to?

Well, the Earth being an orb floating in space, not being the center of the universe, etc. Those seem silly to us today, but there was a time when these were fundamental Christian doctrines. Once it became clear that the Earth was, in fact, not at the center of the universe, that bit just disappeared from the doctrine.

Originally posted by suomichris

Originally posted by JaxonRoberts

Originally posted by Evangelical
But, the homosexual movement is an instrument firmly in the hands I Satan. It is pure evil. It is seekin to silence the gospel and nothing is more vile than that agenda.

Oh, if I found a Genie and only got one wish, it would be that Christianity, once and for all, beyond a doubt, no question about it, be proven a [HOAX]!!! It has nothing to do with homosexuality, or that fictional being Satan used to scare the flock like the ultimate Boogeyman, it has to do with the hateful nature of way too many of it's flock of sheeple! It has to do with the way they try to infect the rest of us with their hate!

Oh what a happy day that would be! Full of Rainbows and Sunshine and Bunnies and Puppies!!!

[edit on 14-7-2009 by JaxonRoberts]

I will keep my eye out for that lamp...

Honestly, though, I truly think that, even if you had incontrovertible evidence that the bible was a hoax, most Christians would go right on believing... As you said, sheeple...

Have you ever tried to get a Christian to watch thegodmovie (google it). I have and it isn't pretty, I even told them the producer was a several times born again Christian to try to get them to watch it...so...I think you're probably right. This isn't just a problem with Christianity, it's a problem with many beliefs in things that can't be proven like Leprechauns or alien controlled UFOs, people have these "faith based" beliefs and don't want to be distracted by annoying little things like facts.

Originally posted by Evangelical

Originally posted by rogerstigers
reply to post by Evangelical

 

Wait a second. So you are saying that thinking for ourselves and coming to our own conclusions about the validity of our own beliefs makes us "SHEEP" ? I think you may have misunderstood the meaning of the term sheeple.

You may be thinking for yourself but you are still denying truth.

Then we are not, by definition, sheeple.

Jesus is the Christ and it is proved in many ways, you just ignore the evidence.

Show me one bit of evidence, REAL evidence. Please.

[edit on 14-7-2009 by suomichris]

reply to post by suomichris


why don't you have selfish distributers out there trying to silence the Gospel?

Christians don't pick on homosexuals, homosexuals know that sinning means they have to silence God to be accepted, they want acceptance for their sin. God refuses to hear them.

You are accepted to God only by your love for Christ for he paid the ransom we all owe for our sins!