Man made circles?? Debunk this woven one...

Originally posted by matsplat
reply to post by Mintwithahole.

 

did colin andrews explain how they are all fake?
if not, and he said jump off a bridge - would you?

Some ..most ..nearly all the uk formations are incredible.

I'd like the big mouths who say they know how, know people who know how, or actually do make them , to film a whopper being constructed.
Before, during after - as much as possible.

Then maybe I'll...eat my pants.
Think I'll still be eating corn flakes for breakfast for the foreseeable future though!

Next someone will say that they have been knitted by grannies (the ones that knit shredded wheat)

Well get your salt and pepper out and choose which pants you want to eat! There are dozens of programmes which show crop circle makers creating huge complex circles. One such programme was called, The Greatest Hoax's revealed. It showed half a dozen guys making a truly massive circle being made in a single summer night (about five to six hours).
lets be honest about this, the reason you keep harking on about these circles being paranormal is that you sincerly want to believe that. . . Crop circles therefore, to you at least, simply strengthen your belief! So when some dreaded non believer comes along and tells it how it is you get your panties in a bunch because you feel we're knocking your beliefs. . .

As for Colin Andrews- seems to me when you thought he was a firm believer in crop circles you believers were mentioning him in every other sentence. Once it becomes clear that Colin is not the gullible person most take him for and has realised that the complex and large circles are man made you won't listen to a word he says.

My friend, crop circles are mostly man made.Sorry about that!

Here is a good little site www.circlemakers.org

Anyone can make a cirlce in a crop with some effort. A circle. A simple circle. If they are lucky, it will look perfect; more often than not, it will not be a perfect circle.

No one can make these incredibly complex designs, however. This would require a team, and you would need someone standing on a high platform to ensure the circles and designs remained in perfect synch and in perfect ratio to everything else...

It would take HOURS. It would require floodlamps at night and a power source for them.

Without that, the design would look like something a 5 year-old drew with a crayon.

There's no way a couple of people with wooden boards could create designs this complex. There would be errors, if anything, and there are not. There are no errors whatsoever.

Beyond that, no skeptic can explain the unbroken stalks. No scientists has EVER offered an explanation as to why these stalks are growing at a 90 degree angle.

The arguments of skeptics are so sad and ridiculous. NO ONE CAN MAKE THESE DESIGNS. These are not mere "circles".

Even a team with the aforementioned equipment would be hard pressed to make a perfect design in a few hours time. An errors would be obvious, so there could be NO errors.

It's either some kind of paranormal happening, ETs or ridiculously advanced human technology. I tend to believe the latter, because the designs are all of human concepts and things familiar to us.

"Here is a good little site www.circlemakers.org"

This site is laughable. Not only do they take an entire day to make these circles, which is obvious to everyone around them, in broad daylight, their circles look TERRIBLE. They are nothing of the sophistication of real crop circles, and the stalks are all bent.

*sigh* It's sad the lengths skeptics will go to disprove something. It's a waste of wheat and a waste of time, this whole endeavor.

-- justin

Here's another "good little site" showing how crop circles are made. . . and not an alien in sight!

science.howstuffworks.com...

proof, if ever it was needed, that the majority of crop circles are man made.

reply to post by Mintwithahole.


John Lundberg's cirlces take hours upon hours to make, and they look like utter garbage. Not only that, the stalks are all broken... authentic circles have unbroken stalks still growing at 90 degree angles.

I likes it alot there is no debunking it LOL THEY ARE TALKIN TO US OUTSIDE OF OUR GOVz.

Originally posted by CUBD1
reply to post by Mintwithahole.

 

John Lundberg's cirlces take hours upon hours to make, and they look like utter garbage. Not only that, the stalks are all broken... authentic circles have unbroken stalks still growing at 90 degree angles.

But I've seen circles that have been passed as real which look just as bad, or good depending how you look at it. Ive seen Busty Taylor, Pat Delgado and Colin Andrews all look at the same circle and come to differing conclusions. And I've talked to the circle makers in Avebury who love every single minute of it. Its what art is all about! Reaction, emotion, that feeling of elation. Thats exactly the feelings that circles provoke.

As far as I'm concerned the only thing I can't get my head around in the crop circle debate is something which I'm surprised nobody else has mentioned- the blowing out of the pods on the stalks!

In all seriousness... why do people think aliens would create crop circles? And Im not asking that with the intention to rip apart anyone's answer, Im just genuinely interested because the general consensus seems to be we cant understand their logic, or they're trying to give us warning. Would like to hear if anyone has got any other ideas.

reply to post by Bluebelle

Crop circles are made by very talented artists who create crop art in an effort to provoke an emotional response from people. Thats what this is all about! Any art is only as good as the emotional and physiological response from those who study it. Just imagine what the crop circle artists are feeling when they see the response from those who believe the circles are messengers from the gods. It is art. . . It is expressionism. . . It is not alien messages from beyond space and time! That is something that alien believers have etched onto this phenomena.

reply to post by Mintwithahole.


Yea.. see that actually makes sense. There's a motive for creating them, and a goal in mind.
I just dont understand why some people believe so strongly that aliens have made them, but then seem to have no idea why aliens would use that method, or what they are trying to achieve.

reply to post by Mintwithahole.


Let me start with saying that I think that crop circles are most likely made by people. My problem with this lies in the why they make them.

I understand the desire of an artist to have his/her work appreciated, revered, talked-about, etc. BUT...

1. need/want to make money.
Problem: There are many different companies that make money off of circles. Dvds, calendars, tours, etc. However, it is a seasonal business that requires money to produce their products. All of these different companies can not be paying the artist, without ever revealing the artist. The more involved in a "scheme" (can't think of another word) the more likely the scheme is to be revealed.

2. same artist for decades?

Problem: not quite plausible. More than one artist? Ups the chance greatly of getting caught. Again, the more people involved, the more chance of getting caught. People that are in business together often end up fighting about something. Yet, the circles continue night after night without any DIRECT link to the makers.

3. Circle makers from the 80's Doug and Dave?

Problem: the one guy died back in '94 or '95.

4. Farmers get paid or allow circles because they make money too?

Problem: Some farmers get really angry and go out and destroy the circle. Yet, the very next night an addition to the circle is made or the circle is simply restored to its original design. Considering trespassing and destruciton of property is illegal, I should think going back to a field in which it is obvious that the owner is ticked, is a rather brazen move all in the name of "art". Further, you can only make one argument: either the farmers are in on it or they're not. you can't have some farmers in and some not in -- but still have designs in their fields. this makes no logical sense.

5. Boards and ropes?

Problem: different sized circles would require different sized boards. Unless the circles are all done on the basis of the smallest board. In other words, if you have a 3 foot long board, then to use this board, your circles would have to be 3 foot, 6 foot, 9 foot, etc. But the circles are not done proportionately. Keep in mind that the designs are often found in fields many many yards from the road. The makers would have to park their car and carry all of the equipment to the field. Completely undetected.

Also to this argument comes the problem of making rounded sides. Boards are straight and unbendable. Now, you can take a straight line and continue moving it closer and closer to get a curved appearance, but there would still be a straight edge somewhere - no matter how small. However, the circles are completely fluid with NO discerning straight edges.

6. Military eyes watching?

Problem: Because a man shot at some crop circle visitors the other day, the police and military have now begun watching the fields at night. They fly helicopters throughout the countryside and survey the fields looking for people making circles. Yet, they have found nobody. And, the circles continue. Again, i would say that this is a rather large risk all in the name of "art".

I could see the explanation that artists would make them for a season, maybe two. But season after season -- for decades. Just for fun. Just for the thrill of not getting caught. All to invoke a reaction. This just does not make logical sense to me.

As a final note, just because there have been some you tube videos of hoaxed circles, does not make all circles hoaxes. There have been MANY faked UFO videos, but this hardly means all UFO sightings are hoaxes.

It's much easier to go back and duplicate something that has already been done (especially in broad daylight with an entire team of people) than it is to be the original maker, in the cover of darkness, completely undetected.

There have been numerous circles that completely and accurately depict the exact location of the planets on the night that the circle was made. So now not only these makers great secret crop layers -- they apparently are also great astronomers with a very powerful telescope in order to get the alignments just right.

Again, seems like an awful lot of work for the sheer fun of creating "art".

[edit on 22-7-2009 by lpowell0627]

I had seen a recent history channel documentary that flashed a silicon wafer that reminded me of this crop circle. The more recent advances of this " Field" of work and it's possible relationship with these crop circles, makes me wonder if this representation is like a nano-sphere, rather than just a wafer. The crop circle image, like many others, appears to be three dimensional or represent these in some form.

news.bbc.co.uk...

Have you ever considered that some farmers might be quite happy to have the circle makers create their art on their land? Especially in these tough economic times, having streams of UFO believers pay a pound a time to visit a circle makes good business sense. If the circle was made early enough I could imagine the farmer earning thousands of pounds on top of what he gets for his crops.

reply to post by Mintwithahole.


In order for a theory to be plausible, it has to be applied to all circumstances. Given the fact that some farmers don't ask for a contribution at all, some farmers refuse to allow visitors access, and some farmers get really really angry and destroy the circle, this does not make sense.

Lastly, the recession is from 2008 and 2009. Circles were happening when times were great and money was flowing.

This is not something new designed to help farmers make money while times are rough.

Originally posted by lpowell0627
reply to post by Mintwithahole.

 

In order for a theory to be plausible, it has to be applied to all circumstances. Given the fact that some farmers don't ask for a contribution at all, some farmers refuse to allow visitors access, and some farmers get really really angry and destroy the circle, this does not make sense.

Lastly, the recession is from 2008 and 2009. Circles were happening when times were great and money was flowing.

This is not something new designed to help farmers make money while times are rough.

Well I never said that did I? As early as the 1980s farmers out at Alton Barnes were charging a pound to enter the field and visit a circle. In these tough economic times having a circle appear in your field may be a financial blessing considering the revenue it could potentially bring in. Who knows, perhaps the farmers are in on it!!?

reply to post by Mintwithahole.


Read my post again and you will see why not all farmers are in on it.

Question: If some farmers are in on it, it makes no sense why the makers would risk making circles in fields owned by farmers who are NOT in on it.

See the problem with your theory?

reply to post by lpowell0627

I know not all farmers are in on it but I imagine there's a fair few who delight in the summer spectacle of crop circle enthusiasts wandering around the countryside trying to communicate with aliens through circles which they know were done by artists.
Crop circles are like anything else you care to mention in the paranormal field. One mans poltergeist rapping on a wall is another mans faulty central heating system. One mans UFO is another mans chinese lantern. . And one mans alien created crop circle is another mans art form!

I've spent lots of time down in Avebury and have heard the crop circle makers talking about their circles. I even watched some of them unfold a sheet of paper with a crop circle design on it once. The very fact we have people debating whether or not these are messages from alien beings would bring joy to the circle makers. For them, it's what it's all about. Art creating contrevercy and debate.

reply to post by Mintwithahole.


First, I think people make circles. What I do NOT believe is:

-- they are made with boards and rope
-- they are made as "hobby-art"
-- there are scores of circle makers


See, the thrill of getting people to talk about their art makes sense...for awhile. Not for decades.

Lastly, I would imagine that there are quite a few people that make A circle to see if they can convince people that it was made by "aliens", but I believe those circles are the exception and not the rule.

There are sometimes more than one circle in one night -- miles and miles away.

Also, explain why different artists would all be attacted to the same themes?

Solar activity, ancient writings, etc.

Why wouldn't any of the artists, in order to win the "I'm the best crop maker" competition, create something completely different --

such as a giant ship tranversing the ocean.....or a giant plane-type vehicle soaring through clouds -- or, you get the idea.

Why would they all revolve around similar concepts and all be abstract?

reply to post by lpowell0627


We're not talking about just one group of circle makers here! There's dozens of groups all over the country, all trying to create a bigger, better more dynamic and stounding circle to wow their audience- the media, the scientists and the general public.
At first there where only one or two groups. One of these was those old pensioners on acid, Doug & Dave, but there where others who watched and thought it was a good idea to lay down these formations in the crops.
As for how they are made? The traditional way is with the stomper board. I've actually seen these rope and boards standing against pub walls in Avebury while the artists have a quick pint.
And as for your question about the designs being alike. . . I think there's just so much you can do when your working with crops as an art material.