Alien Abduction - Most Likely Relative Molestation!

reply to post by zysin5


Good post.

I have to wonder here.. When I first joined ATS, the mindset was a little different.. Here in just the past week, I have been somewhat shocked at many of the threads and posts that have taken something serious into a laughing matter or something that is simply shrugged off as mental issues or sexual molestation.

Jeah I noticed this to, and it makes me mad.

It seems that the only reason that people like the OP come here, is to discredit and debunk every single subject on ATS.

If you don't believe in any of this stuff, what reason is there to be here besides trolling.

This is rubbish:

People with no family or other relation have (claimed to) been abducted
People who live out in the middle of nowhere have (" ") been adducted
Adults have been abducted
Parents have been abducted

[edit on 14-7-2009 by AR154]

Some of the hate against the OP is unfounded. He asks a good question.

I concede that there is life in the universe other then our own. I also concede that people are having unexplained experiences which they interpert as an abduction by aliens.

Night time visitations by stange beings have been in popular imaginations since the records have been kept. Today it's aliens, 200 years ago it was a succubus, or fairies.

Jacque Vallee has done some excellent studies on the how simliar stories throughout the ages have been to todays alien abductions.

I just can't accept that aliens come unfathomable distances in order to prope our genitals. If they are advanced enough to come here, surely they could use clones to do their "studies".

I believe something is going on, however there must be another explanation other then alien anal probes.

Yes, although I am a recently joined member of ATS, I do find it disheartening that some people see this forum as an open invitation to target other members who are sharing their experiences and personal beliefs. Experiences that are not mainstream and often difficult to share with their family, friends etc.
Any member who would start a thread on, for example, Alien abductions, then instantly launch into the "You need psychological help" mantra without any attempt to be open-minded, is IMHO, just feeding their need to have some control and feel superior.

Well, to the op I would point out that it is perfectly understandable that someone who suspects/knows that they have been abducted/molested would have a great desire to have control over their own life, that's understandable, and a healthy attitude to have.

However, the op seems to have a deep rooted desire to have power & control over others, whom he deems to be "weak". This is unhealthy.

Grapesof: In reply to the u2u you sent me. Please don't play the victim role here. I don't get how you think it was me who got you post banned.
I never made any of your posts for you. You were the author of your own fate! You should feel empowered by that fact.

Please learn from this experience. My intention was only ever to bring a more honest open and fair angle to your thread.
Sincerely. Maya

Grapes, the late Dr. John Mack did several case studies of purported abductees, as well as wrote at least two books on subjects related. I found his writings to be thought-provoking.

Naturally, all of this falls within the realm of things currently unprovable, however there does seem to be a healthy body of evidence to suggest that something outside the normal human experiences has/is taking place.

Dr. Mack used hypnosis, and in subsequent years, hypnosis as a critical tool for determining the exact nature of a patient's experience has come under fire -- much of the detractors of this technique expressing a suspicion that the "core memories" uncovered were suggested to the patient; suspicions that the patient, in a vulnerable hypnotic state, readily accepts a suggestion and supplants that suggestive memory with their own.

My own opinion...... some of the taped sessions I've seen of patients under hypnosis project pure terror, and either they are magnificent actors, or part of a grand hoax, or at the least genuinely believe the events themselves. I think they are strong evidence toward a nonhuman abduction experience.

If you want to explore some of Dr. Mack's documents, there are a wealth of them at the John E. Mack Institute web site.

reply to post by grapesofraft

I have read this article before and others by the author and I think you are grossly misrepresenting Alien Abduction experiences as that of being an experience of sexual abuse.
Let me say, as many will already know here, I am extremely sceptical of Alien Abductions. But I think you really need to qualify the link you provide in the OP. Because it raises some interesting points actually supporting Alien Abduction experiences.

Earlier this year, Clancy and McNally reported on another study that found those who recalled childhood sexual abuse or abduction by aliens experience higher rates of sleep paralysis than those who do not make such claims. Strikingly, the first group also scored high on underlying traits of fantasy proneness, paranormal interests and experiences, and inability to relate socially to others.

OP's LINK

Firstly, the study mentioned in the ARTICLE focuses on Sleep Paralysis and the Cultural differences used to explain it, or that attributes a meaning or cause for Sleep Paralysis. Secondly, ALL the people interviewed for Alien Abductions and sleep paralysis were specifically interviewed because they ALL linked sleep paralysis with the Alien Abduction experience. When Clancy and McNally compared these to how victims of sexual abuse accounted for Sleep Paralysis(if it was present in the individual), this is what they found.
Taken from Vol. 42 of Transcultural Psychiatry.tps.sagepub.com...

In this article, we summarise two studies. In the first study, we assessed 10 individuals who reported abduction by space aliens and whose claims were linked to apparent episodes of sleep paralysis during which hypnopompic hallucinations were interpreted as alien beings. In the second study, adults reporting repressed, recovered, or continuous memories of childhood sexual abuse more often reported sleep paralysis than did a control group. Among the 31 reporting sleep paralysis, only one person linked it to abuse memories. This person was among the six recovered memory participants who reported sleep paralysis (i.e. 17% rate of interpreting it as abuse-related). People rely on personally plausible cultural narratives to interpret these otherwise baffling sleep paralysis episodes.

The only thing this study is finding is the significance attributed to Sleep Paralysis by those that report an experience.
In Alien Abduction, they Interviewed 10 people that attributed the CAUSE of their sleep paralysis as being caused by Aliens.
In sexual abuse victims that experienced sleep paralysis ONLY 1 person claimed it was related to their Sexual Abuse.
Also the study notes that they had a control for victims of sexual abuse and this group had sleep paralysis but the study group(sexual abuse victims) has a higher incidence of sleep paralysis.
ALL groups, Alien Abduction(specifically chosen because of sleep paralysis), the control group, and the Victims of Sexual Abuse all had some individuals that experienced sleep paralysis.


Now, we can use or interpret this in so many ways it is not funny.

We could just as well say in a thread that those people who had been victims of sexual abuse were in fact suppressing an Alien Abduction experience by ignoring the significance of sleep paralysis as a sign of Alien Abduction.

We could also belittle some of the victims of sexual abuse(the study attributes 17% of the victims it looked at as attributing the sleep paralysis experience to sexual abuse) by linking Sleep paralysis as evidence of these victims creating a scenario of abuse to "explain" their sleep paralysisexperience, because that is what you are doing to Alien Abduction experiencers by using Clancy in the manner you do.

So are you prepared to accept then that 17% of all people who claim they are victims of sexual abuse are making it up. I mean we can do that with studies like this that link the two subjects together by one characteristic. Especially when one subject(alien abduction experience) is approached from a highly sceptical attitude and the authors already have accepted "their own" explanation for alien abductions, which McNally and Clancy do with hypnopompic hallucinations.

This is where you thread goes WRONG in MHO. I find from this report that the high incidence of sleep paralysis amongst Alien Abduction experiences when compared to Sexual Abuse Victims as disproving a case were, as you suggest, Alien Abduction as really being Sexual Abuse. READ the article, because in the study by Clancy, sleep paralysis appears to be insignificant in cases of sexual abuse, it is not linked by a large percentage of victims to the experience. This is the exact opposite with Alien Abduction experiencers.
This supports Alien Abduction as an experience all of its own and not explained by an experience of sexual abuse. This is why Clancy and McNally provide their own explanation as hypnopompic hallucination.


We could say that Because Victims of sexual abuse have sleep paralysis that Alien Abduction experiencers are experiencing something real because they too have sleep paralysis, like those who are victims of sexual abuse sleep paralysis is a hall mark of an experience because its rate of incidence is higher than the control group used in the study.

I actually used the article from the OP in my own thread, but I was particularly careful in avoiding using the topic you have used because Clancey and McNAlly are only looking at Cultural explanations for sleep paralysis.

Clancey and McNally never question the validity of the claims of the victims of sexual abuse even though many of these individuals gained their memories back in exactly the same manner that Alien Abduction Experiencers do. In that they were recovered memories.

Yet McNally and Clancy readily cast these explanation for experiencers.

we assessed 10 individuals who reported abduction by space aliens and whose claims were linked to apparent episodes of sleep paralysis during which hypnopompic hallucinations were interpreted as alien beings.

Here Clancy and McNally assume that hypnopompic hallucinations are present in all the abduction experiencers claims. This is because they are assuming that the sleep paralysis is exactly the same as that of a clinical definition of sleep paralysis. They include the hallucination as a given and attribute that as the explanation for the "experience" but have pre-ordained the explanation given by the individual as one that is personally culturally plausible or in other words these people had or have sleep paralysis, they hallucinated and they believe it was a alien because personally this is plausible in their culture.

But let me ask you this, because this is what really bugs me about the Alien Abduction Experience as a personal and culturally plausible explanation for Sleep Paralysis.

When has is ever been acceptable to tell your friends, your family, your work colleagues, your GP, shrink....even yourself.....that yeah I was abducted by Aliens, everyone will accept that. I mean it is personally plausible?

People are more accepting of an explanation of sexual abuse to explain alien abduction.
How is that for a personally and culturally plausible?
You are a perfect example of that.
Think about that.
Because that is how culturally unacceptable it is to have a belief that you were abducted by Aliens. People would rather explain it as a horrific case of sexual abuse.
And then use a study about sleep paralysis and the vastly different individuals that experience it to try and prove it.

Here is a thread I started on the Topic. I hope you look at it.
Alien Abduction and Contactees: A new religion?

Edit for linkages and general spelling repairs



[edit on 14-7-2009 by atlasastro]

nah i highly doubt it. you know honestly i think being taken by aliens is even scarier than being molested by a human.

but they do have similarities, that is for sure. i actually think alien abductions might be responsible for the epidemic of pedophila that is breaking out today.

It could be that they were molested in their sleep, then awoke and experienced it as a lucid dream. That could explain the gray bodies (dreaming in black-and-white?) and grossly disproportionate facial features.

I'm sorry but this thread is pretty ridiculous. I'm sure Betty and Barney Hill were both molested? I'm sure the seven men in the Travis Walton case were all molested too right? I'm sure all of these people told the same exact story separately under hypnosis that they were abducted by aliens and all passed polygraph examinations because they were all molested?

And I'm sure that the extraterrestrial implants found in many abductees (implants studied in world class labs such as Los Alamos and by pHd scientists such as Alex Moser at the X Conference and by the Chairman of the Department of Sciences at the University of Toronto, Doug Perovic, on the discovery channel) are the result of molestation, correct? Because extraterrestrial metals are often found in your body after you are molested.

www.youtube.com... (watch 5:00 onward)

You seem like a good person trying to find an "explanation" but you're a little misguided, there is no need to find one. THIS IS A REAL PHENOMENON FOR GOODNESS SAKE!

Originally posted by prevenge

Originally posted by grapesofraft
I think all people who believe they were adbucted by aliens should go and discuss it with a good psychiatrist, because it is more likely that all of you may have been molested by one of your relatives or someone close to you.

grapesofraft
you got it all wrong..backwards in fact..

see what would be more in line with your personality type.. would be to campaign for child molesters worldwide to begin to convince their defense attorneys to start using the defense of "Your Honor, it was aliens that did it to them... not my client"..

with this reasoning (just as sound as your reasoning) ..
you could see many of your cohorts, partners in crime, relieved of their wrongful imprisonment.

right back atcha..
you're just as morally off track as a holocaust denier.

IMO of course.

do you believe the holocaust happened because you were there?

-

[edit on 13-7-2009 by prevenge]

Delusions of alien abduction should be in no way compared to an actual tragedy like the holocaust. There is a ton ...a ton...more evidence for the holocaust than there is for alien abduction.

Why do all you believers insist on pushing valid alternatives answers to this question to the side. Much more evidence for the alternatives than there is for alien abductions. The believers in this phenomenon get angry at people like the op because these alternative answers actually make sense and if so...they will then realize that there is nothing special about them and that aliens have chosen them because they are unique amongst the human race. The only thing I see special in them is that they have a great imagination and just wish I could have one so great. It has been said time and time again from us skeptics. Why is there never one single shred of evidence...not even the smallest piece to back these stories up. Abductees or thier believers can never answer that question qithout making another theory up and can never back up anything they have to say with facts. FACT (A fact is a pragmatic truth, a statement that can be checked and either confirmed or denied) SO aliens are are not here and so they cannot be taking humans. FANTASY (Fantasy is generally distinguished from science fiction and horror by the expectation that it steers clear of scientific themes) aliens are here taking certain humans because of the uniqueness they offer thier speices.

More evidence for the alternatives??? What evidence? There are things that can't be explained by these "alternatives," and there actually is solid physical evidence for alien abductions. Just research Dr. Roger Leir. Out of his 15 implants he retrieved (he's a surgeon) 7 of them looked exactly the same. There was no point of entry for these implants and there was no inflammatory response, which is impossible with our technology. The implants are so hard they can't be cut with a surgical blade despite being very small. He got these studied at Los Alamos, whose report was inconclusive, and then at New Mexico Tech, whose report (which you see in the video) concluded that they may be of extraterrestrial origin, from meteorites. Some of the metals are extraterrestrial origin but not all. The latest video of him is at the X Conference in which Alex Moser, a pHd metallurgist with impeccable credentials, studies the implants. He also had them studied by Doug Perovic, the Chairman of the Department of Science and Engineering at the University of Toronto, in a special on the discovery channel.

Physical evidence aside, how do these "alternatives" explain cases that I mentioned beforehand such as the Betty and Barney Hill case or the Travis Walton case. These are true unexplainable mysteries, unless of course you believe what they claim which is plausible considering there are thousands of people across the world claiming to have similar experiences. I'll let you do the research if you want to enlighten yourself, this is a topic that deserves to be researched and taken seriously, don't rely on preconceived notions like "aliens aren't real" which is a ridiculous statement.

[edit on 14-7-2009 by AliensExist]

reply to post by AliensExist


Childhood sexual abuse is a real problem, and occurs more frequently than most would like to admit.

I can't believe what I am reading.

I've had a couple of strange unexplained experiences, which I have considered abduction as a possible explanation, and am offended at what you have suggested.
Theres not a chance in hell that anybody in my house would molest me in my sleep.

For you to suggest I've got 'repressed memories' that I'm thinking was aliens to cover up being touched in my sleep is frankly upsetting.
This thread has just made me feel quite sad

reply to post by selfisolated


Yes. Additionally, those that have abduction experiences through their adulthood -- to explain their experiences without investigation as a molestation is to intentionally minimize their experiences. Do adults that claim or discover they have abduction experiences just happen to find someone to continue to molest them?

Well, we don't know, but certainly investigation is called for, rather than giving an off-the-cuff blanket explanation.

reply to post by atlasastro


Excellent post, Atlasastro. You packed a lot of information in there, and good links to a documented case(s). I wasn't aware of the depth of study done on sleep paralysis. I'll now go wander your links further and see what I can learn.

thank you!

Greetings all.

Although I CAN entertain the notion of the mind creating fantastic stories to cope with traumatic events, I have difficulty with the generalization that all accounts of abduction can be explained away by sexual abuse as a child.

I'm not proud of it, but I was a victim of abuse as a child. I can tell you with absolute certainty that I have no problem remembering exactly how it happened and who did it. Perhaps my life would have been easier if I had fabricated a story about alien abduction, but alas, that was not MY fate...I wonder how many others don't have a problem remembering. My guess would be many, if not most.

Before I could really speak too well (still struggle. ) I have a memory of being attacked by a 'ghost' when I got sent to my room. This post has made me wonder if it really wan't a ghost after all. It was a ghost that looked like it was wearing a sheet for pet's sake. Think Halloween when he's wearing the glasses.

Although I usually find your posts a little inflammatory and troublesome, Grapes, I appreciate that you're here and that, regardless of the motive behind your doing so, you posted this theory for our consideration.

I have come to welcome, crin-gingly (just made that word up), your alternative opinions.

Some people don't read at all or just skip such phrases as "most likely", "most of them", "..possible that all" etc.
No-one ever said that ALL of abductees have been molested. The point of this thread is that everyone who has been abducted may have been molested or is repressing some other traumatic memory. Many are possibly just lucid dreams or some other sleep related experiences.
I find it strange that all of the believers are attacking Grapes for thinking "out of the box" and trying to find some other explanation to abductions other than aliens.
Seriously..

Why would aliens need to probe peoples genitals or their rectal cavity?

[edit on 15/7/2009 by DGFenrir]

reply to post by DGFenrir

I think ALL people who believe they were adbucted by aliens should go and discuss it with a good psychiatrist, because it is more likely that ALL of you may have been molested by one of your relatives or someone close to you.

First of all, his premise makes no sense at all, because a lot of abductees are adults, to say that these adults are being molested by people close to them, is propostrous.

Secondly, the OP's history makes it hard to believe, imo, that he is truly after searching the truth, his MO is one of ridicule and dicrediting.

"You people need to see a shrink"

I am not saying this to hurt anyones feelings, but to help people uncover the thruth so they may heal.

Yes, off course, always looking out for those crazy, sick people.

Is it a coincidence the OP was post banned?

I'n not saying that all abduction cases are really the work of aliens, sure, there might be some cases where, for instance, lucid dreaming is involved, and the experiences are attributed to alien abduction.

But there are so much corroborating witness accounts that point toward alien abduction, plus reports of deals made between Earth leaders and the ET's, that it is ignorant to say that all cases are the result of molestation and the denial of it.

Why would aliens need to probe peoples genitals or their rectal cavity?

Maybe they are interested in our reproductive abilities, and our digestive track.

Again, interesting theory but for myself I believe in alien abductions, I have had a recent experience I will later post in a new thread. I'm not sure whether it was on the lines of paranormal activity or *coughs* alien abductions, or maybe even some psychiatrical problem stemming from my childhood! I'll let you decide for yourselves.