Four Atheist Quotes That Hit Home.

reply to post by badmedia

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And again I put it all into a nice little legible set of rules. No confusion. You know because early man was so confused about stuff like that? You know like that ALL IMPORTANT LITTLE THING THE TEN COMMANDMENTS? God put it all into stone in a nice package so man would not get confused.

How strange that God was able to present mankind a set of rules for living but not a set of rules for Science?

Pretty odd how you have to try to make an interpretation from saying laying all throughout the bible randomly.

Why could he have not made it into a stone tablet like I presented it? It is legible. It is written down like the ten commandments so no misinterpretation.

Of course it is just easier for you to hunt for something that sounds so vague that it could mean anything.

Badmedia I am disappoint.

Originally posted by Wookiep
reply to post by TurkeyBurgers

 

lol all of your posts are ammusing to say the least.

First thing you need to do is take a breath and relax. I *understand* your concerns, perhaps on a religion-based thread we can discuss this!

This one however, is an athiests thread and I don't want to destroy a perfectly good thread with a religious (which btw I am not, mainly because of the meaning of the word "religion") argument. Arguing about God is pointless however, and also hypocritical of those who follow it by doing so. If you don't believe life goes on! People need to relax on this subject, and believe what they choose without getting so offended.



[edit on 16-7-2009 by Wookiep]

Sorry friend I get pretty worked up when a sensible logical human being attempts to give credit for everything Science has done to the bible.

Especially when you are attempting to defend actions like these with qoutes like this

hahaha Because God was supposed to talk to early man like they are scientists? -Wookiep

Originally posted by TurkeyBurgers
Originally posted by WookieP

Sorry friend I get pretty worked up when a sensible logical human being attempts to give credit for everything Science has done to the bible.

Especially when you are attempting to defend actions like these with qoutes like this

hahaha Because God was supposed to talk to early man like they are scientists? -Wookiep

I'm sorry if I riled you up. That was not my honest intention. I found your post amusing, but I apologize if I seemed to make the situation worse.



[edit on 16-7-2009 by Wookiep]

[edit on 16-7-2009 by Wookiep]

reply to post by Wookiep


I am still learning to control my emotions. It is tough! I get FIRED UP over a couple of things still. I am normally a pretty cool cucumber and I own a copy of the Bible and I treasure it. I try not to insult peoples religious beliefs but I believe that, of ALL places, at ATS ANY question can, nay, SHOULD be asked.

I do not curse at people or try to insult them directly, more like challenge their beliefs in a way that no one has ever done before. I want to put my personal guarantee that no one has ever created a Scientific Method Commandments Tablet before (but the internet is a big place and someone is bound to have beat me to it) I will try to remain a little bit calmer in the future. Thanks for pointing it out to me.

best 2 lines I've heard, unknown authors:


"I don't belive that I don't believe"

and

" As for myself, I am unsure of the entire religion thing, but I am quite confident that if there is a God, he is unhappy with 100% of the atheists and 99.9% of the christians"

Originally posted by TurkeyBurgers
reply to post by Wookiep


No worries here! everyone likes a challenge, and it's actually a good thing it happens otherwise ATS wouldn't be such an entertaining place to be!

reply to post by TurkeyBurgers


Actually, you are right. The people did not understand the commandments and these things. The bible also talks about that as well. That is why it is said that Jesus came to fulfill the laws and such, he tried to give that understanding to people and showed them the correct way. Again, I don't argue over if it's real or not, but either way that is what Jesus does.

How strange that God was able to present mankind a set of rules for living but not a set of rules for Science?

Pretty odd how you have to try to make an interpretation from saying laying all throughout the bible randomly.

Why could he have not made it into a stone tablet like I presented it? It is legible. It is written down like the ten commandments so no misinterpretation.

Because what is flesh is flesh. Now, if you want to truly get into the topic of why we are not given all the technology of today, that is a topic in itself.

What I am trying to point out is the bible actually makes the samekind of arguments. You think it is contradictory to increasing understanding, wisdom and such when it is not. People did not have the luxury they have of today to be so out in the open with things. They have had to speak in ways that keep it hidden and not so obvious.

Understand that these things have been things that leaders of nations have tried and tried to destroy. Knowledge is not wanted to be given to the common people. These things have mostly arrived from people who were persecuted for doing and saying such things.

When it starts to grow and the leaders see it as a threat, they will start to embrace it and then manipulate it. And this is warned about. And then they will use that power to enforce those things, and many people no longer see the difference. Not to mention books which are obviously added which contradict the bible, wisdom and understanding.

I'm not even someone who thinks the bible is the "word of god". It's not even close to that. But I will stick up for wisdom and understanding wherever I see it, and I find it all in the bible for anyone who really wants to find it.

If I thought the bible = what the church preaches and what you see preachers on TV saying, I wouldn't support it at all. It was exactly that which made me an atheist years ago. And I certainly haven't changed my mind about that either. They are a bunch of hypocrites and are screwing people out of their money. But the thing is, the bible specifically warns of things like that and says it's going to happen.

The truth about the bible is you aren't finding truth in it because you don't look for it in that. You are only looking for ways to dismiss it because you are associating it with what the church preaches.

Of course it is just easier for you to hunt for something that sounds so vague that it could mean anything.

Badmedia I am disappoint.

I thought the gist of your list was to value wisdom and understanding, and to ask questions, and I was just showing that is what the bible tells people to do as well.

There is also a Buddha quote that is pretty similar. It's been around those who seek understanding long before "scientific method" was developed, and by the very people you scorn today.

The bible isn't a single book, it's a collection of books that piled up over time. So lets do that with science and put all that science has thought was true in a single book, and then focus on the things that were wrong as a way of dismissing the rest of it.

I think most people are atheists because they reject the church, not because they are against the real principles of things in the bible, and I was trying to point that out. I tell my friends who are not religious at all that they are more "Christian" than those who call themselves that word. Christianity based on the RCC(most all denominations) is the "anti-Christ" religion, and is not a reflection of what the bible says. Those who actually understood and knew what the bible was talking about were persecuted, tortured and killed. Is there really much wonder why it is the way you see it presented today?

The bible is more on your side than it is theirs, but you are never going to realize that as long as you allow them to define it for you. And if me pointing it out to you is going to be equated as "vague" and a "disappointment", then I will no longer waste my time.

Originally posted by theQuest
" As for myself, I am unsure of the entire religion thing, but I am quite confident that if there is a God, he is unhappy with 100% of the atheists and 99.9% of the christians"

lol, I like this one. I would say it's true. Both those "sides" are close minded, and neither really understand.


[edit on 7/16/2009 by badmedia]

reply to post by TurkeyBurgers


I have an idea. Lets see you apply the scientific method to the following question(step 1 as you say).

Question: What are you? How can you define ones self?

I await your response in scientific method.

reply to post by badmedia


I guess I am failing to see the difference between the Bible and a Stephen King novel in the context that you are describing it as.

If you do not think that there was any God or Hidden Intelligence providing secrets to people to write down in the Bible than how can you try and gain hidden knowledge from it?

Would it not be just the same as saying to open book 6, The Song of Susannah, of the Gunslinger series so that we may discuss the trials and tribulations of her handicap and gain insight into how that relates to the concept of Electromagnetism?

Originally posted by badmedia
reply to post by TurkeyBurgers

 

I have an idea. Lets see you apply the scientific method to the following question(step 1 as you say).

Question: What are you? How can you define ones self?

I await your response in scientific method.

I accept the challenge! It may take me some time so be patient but I will attempt to do just this!

reply to post by badmedia


When you want to know "What are you?" are you telling me I can describe myself any way that I want to?

Or is there a certain description of myself that you are wanting?

The question is not defined enough. I can do it with that but you might want to refine the question before I go any farther.

Originally posted by TurkeyBurgers
reply to post by badmedia

 

I guess I am failing to see the difference between the Bible and a Stephen King novel in the context that you are describing it as.

If you do not think that there was any God or Hidden Intelligence providing secrets to people to write down in the Bible than how can you try and gain hidden knowledge from it?

Would it not be just the same as saying to open book 6, The Song of Susannah, of the Gunslinger series so that we may discuss the trials and tribulations of her handicap and gain insight into how that relates to the concept of Electromagnetism?

You just don't understand how the father gives. The father does not give in a human language, or any language which can be written by man. He instead gives in direct understanding.

Men can not give each other understanding directly. We are reduced to only being able to express the understandings we gain. This is easy to show with math.

Math is an understanding in itself. But we express that understanding with numbers. 1+1=2 is an expression of math. Now, anyone can come along and merely accept 1+1=2 because someone told them to(or that they would be killed if they didn't), but it's not the same as the understanding.

So the father doesn't give to you by saying "1+1=2", he instead just gives the understanding directly. From that point, those who gain that understanding are left with ways to express that understanding.

"Any fool can know, the point is to understand" - Einstein.

So, the bible is merely an expression of the understanding. People accept the literal truth due to the things I mentioned. Believe it or not, but the Matrix expresses the same understandings.

So when I read the bible anything which is "gnostic", I do not see literally things. Instead of seeing the literal things, I see the equations/understandings under them. Or in terms of math, this is the same thing as understanding math, rather than seeing 1+1=2. Those who accept do not understand, and the church only teaches acceptance. So instead of 1+1=2, I see A+B=C(still an expression, because this is the best men can do).

Things are interchangeable. Everything you see Jesus dealing with you can find still exists today. The times, people, places, cultures, idols, and so forth are merely variables and part of an expression of understanding. And when you have understanding of the bible, then you are able to do exactly that.

Not that complicated. All you have to do is look at the actions of people, rather than what they say they are. Rather than looking for who are the "pharisees", look at all the things the "pharisees" did. Now, look into the current world and tell me who does those same exact actions. And just like that, you have gained a bit of understanding about the bible.

Same thing with moneychangers. Who does that action today? Now you know who they are. Look at their actions. If the actions are correct, then you have a correct match and you see the modern day version.

And then the bible becomes very useful and helpful in today's society, because all the things from 2000+ years ago still exist today.

But you do not understand yet, because you accept what the church says as being how those things are too be accepted. Yes, even if you are against what they say, you still accept them as the authority on god. Because your arguments are based on what they say, so you are allowing them to define the topic for you.

Originally posted by TurkeyBurgers
reply to post by badmedia

 

When you want to know "What are you?" are you telling me I can describe myself any way that I want to?

Or is there a certain description of myself that you are wanting?

The question is not defined enough. I can do it with that but you might want to refine the question before I go any farther.

I'm asking you to define it.

However, I will say that I will reject anything which is in the form of a possession, as I am asking what is it that possesses them.

reply to post by badmedia


Rather than me proposing what question you want me to answer it would be so much easier for us both if you just said Plainly and Legibly what you want the question to be.

Originally posted by TurkeyBurgers
reply to post by badmedia

 

Rather than me proposing what question you want me to answer it would be so much easier for us both if you just said Plainly and Legibly what you want the question to be.

What are you? How do you define yourself?

I'm not sure what isn't plain about the question. If I ask you what is the planet earth, what is the sun, or what is a star wouldn't the question be plain? It's not a riddle, it's just a straight up question - what are you?

reply to post by badmedia


I am a Human.

Do you want me to show my work?

Originally posted by TurkeyBurgers
reply to post by badmedia

 

I am a Human.

Do you want me to show my work?

So, then you are "your" body? Doesn't "your" constitute a possession?

I know what a human is, no need for work because you are just going to show me body parts that show what a human is. But all those parts will be "your" parts. So, how can you be that which you posses?

reply to post by badmedia


Like I said before Badmedia...No separate driver. No "Soul" or "Observer" or "Observer observing the observer" just the old Popeye saying "I am's what I am's" which is a car that drives itself. No separate driver inside this vehicle.

The car and driver are one. So yeah....I am the human.

I cannot possess myself.

reply to post by badmedia

So, how can you be that which you posses?

How can the earth be what it possess? One definition of what a thing is, is what it is composed of. For those that deny the spiritual that would be the only definition. Sounds a fair answer. You just don't except it because you assume that there is something more, while turkeyburgers does not. But you didn't ask for a definition of which you approved, you asked for one that was valid and could be shown using the scientific method.