Four Atheist Quotes That Hit Home.

Originally posted by Bluebelle
There's no reason science and God cant co-exist IMHO. Its impossible to dismiss either of the ideas completely. Especially with the things we're starting to learn about the universe i.e. dark matter, dark energy... and that weird dark flow stuff - which incidentally I think is actually terrifying, we could be heading towards some insanely huge black hole!
And add all that to the various theories that are arising about possible other dimensions, it just goes to show that we still have a lot to learn.

It might well be impossible to ever determine whether we were created or not, especially seeing as we dont even know what our universe is, or even how big it is... but think how far we've come in the last 1000 years or so, its absolutely mind boggling to think where we might be in another 1000 years!

You are right, and even Jesus makes this point and it's been well known. It makes you wonder why people fight amongst them, it's silly.

Jesus says, what is flesh is flesh, and what is spirit is spirit. Flesh = universe, spirit = that which observes it.

Need to have a balance.

Since I was a kid I realized that technology is going to increase until the point where 1 man at anytime would have the power to destroy the entire world. How can such be dealt with? You can either deny such powers to the people, and keep them for yourself which could easily bring about tyranny. Or people will have to be spiritual enough and understanding enough to not do such a thing ever.

Well, if we don't evolve spirtually and come to understand, then we aren't going to make it. Plain and simple.

Have to have a balance. There are valid purposes for both, and the "fight" amongst them is disinformation and manipulation, divide and conquer etc.

reply to post by Bluebelle


Too true. I am not sure if there is a God, and I am not sure that the laws that current science subscribe to are actually correct. But I do think it is entirely possible that if there were a God he could have created and used a tool such as evolution to complete his works.

The all or nothing thinking of these isms is near sighted. It is for the very reason that our forefathers could believe in God and still be willing to question him and subscribe to the sciences that made them such great thinkers.

Originally posted by TurkeyBurgers
reply to post by Sigismundus

 

Your post was gourmet. I devoured it. Thank you so much for educating us on such an amazing man.

I never understood what the Jefferson Bible was other than that every member of Congress or Senate, I forget which, receives one.

It it great to see someone who contains such a vast amount of knowledge on the subject share it. Thank you very much.

I too think Jefferson would find the Internet as it currently exists almost entirely free from censorship completely amazing.

If you wish to know how his belief worked, I can answer any questions for you. As I also do not accept Paul in anyway, and only focus on the teachings/lessons/understanding of Jesus in things. 2 people in history that I admire most are Jesus and Jefferson(as far as western culture goes, I like Buddha, Gandhi and others too).

For this reason I do not consider myself to be a Christian, although to an atheist it may seem that way. Paul is a false prophet and contridicts Jesus all the time. Paul is a politician, and molds the religion into the manipulation you know today.

But people do not realize that is not what Jesus was about and specifically warned of such things. Christianity = the anti-christ religion, Christians just apply the things to everyone else rather than themselves.

New religion since the time of Jesus? Check.
Appeals to the political powers of the world? Check.
Proceeds to become a huge power in the world? Check.
Proceeds to kill anyone who doesn't go along with their way? Check.
Goes to war over people and sins because of beliefs? Check.
Won't be happy until they are the 1 world religion? Check.
Would most likely kill Jesus again to protect their power? Check.

etc. But these are all things Jesus warns about. But they never take a look at their own religion. They wait for things to happen that have already happened and have been happening for 2000+ years. And of course it spread like crazy, if you didn't go along they killed you. People have had to keep the real truth hidden through cryptic texts and such from them.

Go ahead and read the words of Jesus in the gospels. Where he says Pharisee, replace it with Pope, Cardinal, Minister, Father, Preacher. Where he says "synagogue", replace it with Church. When he says "Jew", replace it with Christian because if you followed him during the time, then you were a Jew. Change moneychanger to banker.

Jesus says he is the truth, the way and the light. This is a key. Like an algebra equation where Jesus = a variable, and you can put those values in place of his name and get a deeper truth.

They have changed their names in order to fool people, but the functions are all still here. A rose by any other name still smells the same.

This is what kills me about this topic. People don't realize what Jesus was actually about, they make all their decisions based on what religious people say and do, and in doing so they allow those same people to define the topic for them. If Jesus = Christian Church, I wouldn't say his name much at all. But when you come to realize that he was against all the things people are mentioning as bad, then it changes everything.

Jefferson got this, and so did many of the founding fathers and people who came to this country to being with. This is not a "Christian nation", it was not founded on any organized religion, but it was based on the principles of Jesus - which Jefferson and others held in high esteem.

Realize this, those who knew the understandings of Jesus and focused on them were killed, just as the prophecy states. Those who went along with those prosecutors are what you know as Christianity today.

Google Video Link

I'm not a gnostic Christian and I'm not familiar with their texts. But the 4 gospels are the bibles that talk of Jesus are the gnostic texts of the bible, and those are the 4 I give most credence too, while I reject Paul completely. While this stuff has been pushed down for years, it keeps popping back up in different forms, because understanding is universal, only the expression changes.

[edit on 7/13/2009 by badmedia]

It's all about probability. Look at creation. The probability that the universe was created by ...

1. God
2. A giant intergalactic immortal lobster called Colin

... is exactly the same. Neither have any evidence to support their existence.

Anyway, must go, it's crustaceanist night down at the Church of Colin ...

reply to post by badmedia


I too am a big fan of JC, Jesus Christ the man as I call him.

Not really all that sure of saying that Jesus is the truth, the way, the light. Sounds like John saying that not Jesus; and while I won't call him a false prophet, John definately was trying to undermine the Jewish faith. Jesus was more about questioning the current Jewish leaders. From my readings I believe that Jesus felt that the Jewish faith had taken a wrong turn, that much of the dogma no longer concerned what God was really trying to tell us.

Again, other then in John, Jesus never called himself a God. I don't think he saw himself anymore as God then the rest of us.

For Histopherness and Badmedia.

Do either one of you believe that Jesus existed as an actual at one time living non-fiction historical figure like Thomas Jefferson was? Or a fictional make believe never living character like Conan is?

I think that if Thomas Jefferson was able to see all of the evidence present regarding this issue today he might conclude that Jesus in fact did not exist as an actual living person and was fictional.



[edit on 13-7-2009 by TurkeyBurgers]

reply to post by Histopherness


It always seemed to me that John wanted to bring fear to the table, because he understood that it is, by far, the easiest way to motivate common man. The message of Jesus himself was one of love and understanding, that the way to God and eternal salvation was through one's own actions.... and not through the church. In a lot of ways, Satanism actually models the teachings of Jesus more than Christianity.

Any other good quotes?

reply to post by TurkeyBurgers


I believe that Jesus did indeed exist. Maybe not as he was portrayed, maybe even a dupe used in a story that became Christianity. I don't know. But many gospels were written about him, not just the 4 in cannon beliefs. So many writing about a man? There must have been someone to base them off.

Of course you could argue that many books are written about Bigfoot also. Good argument, I have no response but to say whether Milli Vanilli sang their songs or not, the music was still good. Jesus or no, the message is still good.

Well, I guess I just want to put my two cents into the thread. I think it is every person's right to believe whatever they choose, whether it is in a supreme being or not. Even as a devout Catholic, there have been times that I wondered about God's existence. Although some say the wise man sees religion as false, I have my own outlook. For me the wise man takes a supreme being's existence into consideration, and here is why: "If one believes in God, and God does not exist, they have lost nothing. If one denies God's existence, and God does exist, they have lost everything(including salvation)"

Just food for thought

Originally posted by TurkeyBurgers
For Histopherness and Badmedia.

Do either one of you actually believe that Jesus existed as an actual living non-fiction historical figure like Thomas Jefferson was? Or a fictional never living character like Conan is?

I think that if Thomas Jefferson was able to see all of the evidence present regarding this issue today he might conclude that Jesus in fact did not exist as an actual living person and was fictional.

It flat out doesn't matter to me at all if he was real or not. The reason I like Jesus is because I see the father within him. He speaks of a deep deep understanding.

If he is real or not isn't important at all. If it's just a made up story, then whoever wrote the story obviously knew the father. It's all a story to us is it not? Isn't all of history just a story written from the perspectives of those who lived to tell about it?

It's the understanding he speaks and teaches that is important. But I personally don't find it hard to believe someone like him lived, because again - atleast 1 person had that understanding.

Arguing over if Jesus is real or not is about like arguing over if Neo and the Machines in the Matrix are real. It doesn't matter which side of the argument you are on, you missed the point completely.

Worshipping Jesus rather than taking from the understanding he gives is like giving a cat a bowl of milk, and rather than drinking the milk, the cat licks and worships the bowl from bringing the milk, while settling for the "milk" the acme company sells down the road. Drink the milk you stupid cat, the bowl had a purpose!

To clarify Atheism for Atheists:

I purport there to be a God; Yet, I cannot PROVE there is a God.
Therefore mine is a FAITH BASED belief system.
Atheists purport there IS NOT a God. Atheists cannot prove there is NOT a God.
Therefore theirs is a FAITH BASED belief system.

Agnostics have an ABSENCE of belief..
(Don't know... or don't care.)
Atheists DO NOT have an ABSENCE of belief.
Atheists claim to KNOW THERE IS NO GOD!

Agnostics are intellectually honest to say they have an absence of belief.
Atheists on the other hand are dishonest to claim the have an absence of belief because they adamantly claim to be right about something they have no proof of (IE FAITH).

In other words, the Atheist's belief system is more similar to the Deist's belief system that to that of the Agnostics!

“Question with boldness even the existence of God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason than that of blindfolded fear.”
Thomas Jefferson

My personal spirituality has been greatly strengthened by the questioning of God's existence. You must thoroughly question such a notion in order to find the answers that make sense to you in your deepest of self.

“I contend that we are both atheists. I just believe in one fewer god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours.”
Stephen Roberts

The reasons most people dismiss other gods beyond their own personal monotheistic deity and the reasons many athiests dismiss the notion of God altogether is because they approach the subject as if a god is a being that can be comprehended easily, with emotions and friends and enemies; all of the things that water down religions to the point of obsurdity. My notion of God is the reason why the Universe and all life exists, and my God cannot be embodied in a traditional religious sense. God is not a person.


“I am against religion because it teaches us to be satisfied with not understanding the world.”
Richard Dawkins

I agree. Religion does not equal God. It is a launching system, written to aid in the journey of discovery of God or to control people.

“An atheist is a man who has no invisible means of support.”
John Buchan

God is not an entity I cry out to every time I am in need. I believe in free will and accept that good and bad experiences are part of existing in this Universe. I believe in personal responsibility for every action. It's all a learning process. God is the constructive force that allows the creation of a sense of self, and the development of a cooperative, creative mindset. God is the spiritual love and connectedness that allows for positive growth and expansion of existence.

Originally posted by Histopherness
reply to post by badmedia

 

I too am a big fan of JC, Jesus Christ the man as I call him.

Not really all that sure of saying that Jesus is the truth, the way, the light. Sounds like John saying that not Jesus; and while I won't call him a false prophet, John definately was trying to undermine the Jewish faith. Jesus was more about questioning the current Jewish leaders. From my readings I believe that Jesus felt that the Jewish faith had taken a wrong turn, that much of the dogma no longer concerned what God was really trying to tell us.

Again, other then in John, Jesus never called himself a God. I don't think he saw himself anymore as God then the rest of us.

I speak from my experience. I wasn't looking for "Jesus" when I found the father and understanding. Quite the opposite of that, I disliked the church even more than I do now. I viewed it as a bunch of mind control and brainwashing. Made all the arguments I see repeated back to me(I figure I'm reaping what I sowed).

But I was looking for those 3 things. That chapter is the entire reason I started to take a deeper look in the bible. It describes my experience exactly, and I was downright shocked to see it. I seen what I learned and understood repeated back to me, and I didn't think anyone had a clue what I came to know at that time.

So I'm not the normal "faith" based person. I determine what is right and wrong in the bible the same way I do a math quiz. Only with understanding can one separate what is true and what is not. I reject Paul because he does everything I was shown not to do. Jesus does everything I was shown was right to do.

Course my experience is my experience. No good for others, so everyone needs to have their own vision and experience IMO. There simply is no replacement for that understanding. I read the exact same words before then, and they were meaningless to me. Now they are music to my ears.

As for Jesus being god, it's the father and son relationship. The father is within, and what separated Jesus from the normal person is he understood and knew(from a young age according to the story). All that he says of himself is true of you, it's just a matter of finding the father within. Jesus is supposed to be the norm, not the exception.

Jesus is god, but the father is much greater than he is. I go into more detail on this topic in the 2 posts below. Long topic to explain.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Originally posted by barksplinter
To clarify Atheism for Atheists:

I purport there to be a God; Yet, I cannot PROVE there is a God.
Therefore mine is a FAITH BASED belief system.
Atheists purport there IS NOT a God. Atheists cannot prove there is NOT a God.
Therefore theirs is a FAITH BASED belief system.

Agnostics have an ABSENCE of belief..
(Don't know... or don't care.)
Atheists DO NOT have an ABSENCE of belief.
Atheists claim to KNOW THERE IS NO GOD!

Now allow me to clarify "FAITH" to "faithful":

1 a: allegiance to duty or a person : loyalty b (1): fidelity to one's promises (2): sincerity of intentions2 a (1): belief and trust in and loyalty to God (2): belief in the traditional doctrines of a religion b (1): firm belief in something for which there is no proof (2): complete trust3: something that is believed especially with strong conviction ; especially : a system of religious beliefs

www.merriam-webster.com...

Me having 'faith' in no god(s) is like just as if I proclaim there is an invisible pink unicorn living in my garage... can you prove he does not exist, then do you have faith that he does not exist? I don't need faith in something you invented. 'You' being a collective group of cults that began a few thousand years ago.

I think it's more accurate to say that atheists don't care, don't care... lol

[edit on 7.13.2009 by Avarus]

reply to post by badmedia


I like Jesus also. I think the message of Jesus is ridiculously cool.

I think that my Bible is probably my favorite book that I own and have ever read. I think of it as if Stephen King, Gandhi, Frank Miller, Quentin Tarantino, Arthur Conan Doyle, Steven Spielberg, J.R.R. Tolkein, Orson Scott Card, Shel Silverstein, and Ray Bradbury all coming together to collaborate on writing one book!

I do not think it is fair to read one of these authors stories and treasure the writing of their created characters and not give them credit for penning them.

To only take away the lessons and teachings of Jesus and not give credit to the men who created those stories and wrote them is a loss in my opinion.

Like if Jesus was in fact a real person it would be terrible to give credit for someone who wrote down his words as having authored them.

We call that Plagiarism.

reply to post by TurkeyBurgers


Well we differ there. If I had written it, I wouldn't give a crap who copies it. If someone copies the things I say on here because they like them, fine with me. Just words, ownership is silly IMO.

Doesn't matter who says it, doesn't matter who did it. What matters is the understanding it's based on. IMO, it's that we focus on those kinds of things misleads people, because they aren't looking at what is important.

Jesus says that those who believe will do what he does. Christianity is based on the sacrifice of truth, so that the lie of this world may live. I don't believe that. Instead of finding "salvation" in his death, I find it and his grace can be found in his life. By "following" his example, one can keep the commandments properly. Understanding and following that is to believe for the very works sake, and should be the minimum for everyone. He is supposed to be the norm, not the exception.

Those who go around killing, manipulating and brainwashing people in his name are not a reflection of him, what he was about, or what he stood for. And screw that, I'm not going to let those people define things for me.

Read Matthew 7, Jesus warns of people who will do bad things in his name in that chapter. Tells you to look at their fruits(actions) to see if they are true or not. And as many people have pointed out in this thread, those actions are not a reflection of what he said.

"Eternal suffering sounds quite painful...I'm in!"

I just put the quotations around it to make it seem more important than normal views!

I like Richard Dawkins quote the best.

I'm not an atheist but I do have a lot of questions with organized religions. One of my favorite quotes happens to be from a atheist.

One of the great tragedies of mankind is that morality has been hijacked by religion. - Arthur C. Clarke

the last one is the best im an athiest and i love it i feel so free =]=]=]

miraculous cures only happen to those with diseases. Amputees seem to have zero luck getting through to the almighty.