Tesla: The Forgotten Mysteries II [The UFO Connection]

reply to post by VitriolAndAngst


There are not only paintings, but there are texts.

BTW, in case you didn't know UFOs have been seen in large miltiary wars.

In fact the allies thought that such aircraft were German, and even tried to shut down a few of them with not much success. which is from where the claims that "UFOs were invented by the Germans came from".

The fact is that such craft have been seen in ancient battles as well, and not just on modern battlefields.

BTW in WWII such aircraft were named "foo fighters"

Another thing worth of note is that the Germans actually thought these were modern ally aircraft too...

Both sides thought that the foo fighters (UFOs) were enemy aircraft.

This article is about the aerial phenomenon. For the rock band, see Foo Fighters.
The term foo fighter was used by Allied aircraft pilots in World War II to describe various UFOs or mysterious aerial phenomena seen in the skies over both the European and Pacific Theater of Operations.

Though "foo fighter" initially described a type of UFO reported and named by the U.S. 415th Night Fighter Squadron, the term was also commonly used to mean any UFO sighting from that period.[1]

Formally reported from November 1944 onwards, witnesses often assumed that the foo fighters were secret weapons employed by the enemy, but they remained unidentified post-war and were reported by both Allied and Axis forces. Michael D. Swords[2] writes,

“ During WWII, the foo fighter experiences of [Allied] pilots were taken very seriously. Accounts of these cases were presented to heavyweight scientists, such as David Griggs, Luis Alvarez and H.P. Robertson. The phenomenon was never explained. Most of the information about the issue has never been released by military intelligence.

en.wikipedia.org...



[edit on 12-7-2009 by ElectricUniverse]

Originally posted by ElectricUniverse

Originally posted by serbsta

The fact that they don't mention them supports my argument not yours. Wouldn't that be the smart thing to do if those we're their craft?

I have no idea what you just said in there. Did you mean to say "if those were their craft"?... And who is not mentioning what exactly?

The theory in this thread is that those could be government craft, if you've read some of the posts you might have realized that. You stated that many astronauts have seen such craft but don't speak about them, this is one of the underlying arguments in this thread and tends to support the notion of them being government craft rather than alien as those who go on a space mission would be told and hence all the hush-hush.

reply to post by serbsta


I see, obviously you haven't studied this for very long.

Astronauts have talked about this, and even recordings of what they described have been made available.

www.youtube.com...

ronrecord.com...

reply to post by serbsta



And BTW what you have been claiming is that 90% of such aircraft are man-made, without any evidence for this, meanwhile I showed you that there ahve been massive sightings of these aircraft for millenium, which shows that msot of this craft are not man-made. At least not made by any government we know about.

reply to post by ElectricUniverse


I've visited and seen both links. All i can say is that i don't know the astronauts intentions or whether or not what they're saying is true or not, so i can't say that i believe it.

reply to post by ElectricUniverse


Wow... you constantly keep saying that i stated that 90% are man made when i thought i made myself clear about 4 times. I said that with 90% of sightings, other than being something natural or a simple object, it is more likely that it is a man made aircraft rather than an alien craft.

reply to post by serbsta


Oh, i see... so you don't believe anything except what you want to believe... Gotcha...

Did tesla say anywhere how such aircraft could leave Earth's atmosphere?

BTW, I have also studied Tesla, and i graduated in Computers and electronics engineering so it won't be over my head, but please do explain.



[edit on 12-7-2009 by ElectricUniverse]

Originally posted by ElectricUniverse
reply to post by VitriolAndAngst

 

There are not only paintings, but there are texts.

BTW, in case you didn't know UFOs have been seen in large miltiary wars.

In fact the allies thought that such aircraft were German, and even tried to shut down a few of them with not much success. which is from where the claims that "UFOs were invented by the Germans came from".

The fact is that such craft have been seen in ancient battles as well, and not just on modern battlefields.

BTW in WWII such aircraft were named "foo fighters"

Another thing worth of note is that the Germans actually thought these were modern ally aircraft too...

Both sides thought that the foo fighters (UFOs) were enemy aircraft.

This article is about the aerial phenomenon. For the rock band, see Foo Fighters.
The term foo fighter was used by Allied aircraft pilots in World War II to describe various UFOs or mysterious aerial phenomena seen in the skies over both the European and Pacific Theater of Operations.

Though "foo fighter" initially described a type of UFO reported and named by the U.S. 415th Night Fighter Squadron, the term was also commonly used to mean any UFO sighting from that period.[1]

Formally reported from November 1944 onwards, witnesses often assumed that the foo fighters were secret weapons employed by the enemy, but they remained unidentified post-war and were reported by both Allied and Axis forces. Michael D. Swords[2] writes,

“ During WWII, the foo fighter experiences of [Allied] pilots were taken very seriously. Accounts of these cases were presented to heavyweight scientists, such as David Griggs, Luis Alvarez and H.P. Robertson. The phenomenon was never explained. Most of the information about the issue has never been released by military intelligence.

en.wikipedia.org...



[edit on 12-7-2009 by ElectricUniverse]

I've heard the term.

It doesn't prove anything either way. If the Germans or Americans were experimenting with gyro-magnetic craft -- it stands to reason that they were NOT effective at that time.

I'm saying the ancient sightings may or may not be UFOs -- if we can't PROVE that there were sightings in WW II, then I think it should be equally hard if not harder to say the same of ancient battles.

I mean, the legend of Santa Claus, is derived from Ancient shamans drinking Reindeer pee -- they burnt trees to bring back the sun and Christmas lands on the winter solstice.

Until we can PROVE that there are flying saucers -- we cannot PROVE their origin. If the Ancient Greeks or Babylonians were seeing these aliens -- they'd be more advanced than what was described during WW II.

Could their be an earlier race or third party more advanced than the rest of humanity?

>> When I was a child, in Kindergarten, I was kind of amazed at how barbaric other people were. When some twins and a really big kid were trying to mess with me, and force me into fighting, I remember picking them up and throwing them (so much for the accuracy of memories). Later I was crying to the teacher because I couldn't understand WHY anyone would want to hurt me. It wasn't that I was hurt, or scared, or felt powerless. I don't fear people and never have -- I just was truly shocked to my core that they wanted to.

So I could imagine that advanced races might have a hard time dealing with us -- even more than Vegetarian's, Hippies, and Greenpeace volunteers. Because to me -- these people are fundamentally MORE evolved, even if you think they are naive. In an advanced race -- nobody has to die or be a damn predator, right? But if you are stuck in the mud with a lion -- you have a different and more basic reality.

A good portion of the United States, would like to GIVE the more aggressive, authoritarian people on earth their own place to live. One could Imagine that an advanced people, rather than conquering, might just LEAVE.

I really don't believe these theories about Satan, or races crossing the Universe to eat people. Any race like that, would blow themselves up in the Nuclear age. If you can cross a solar system -- you don't need primitives for sex or mining. We are about 5 years and two weeks away from pleasure robots ourselves. Ten years from having autonomous drones that kill on the battle field. God help us.


>> So anyone a few thousand years more advanced than humans are right now, would not be seen or shot down unless they wanted to be. If there is interstellar war amongst star-faring races, then how could you ever have a treaty that would leave us un-touched?

Just by pure logic, I have to look at reality and I can only deduce two states; Either things are as they seem, and there are no UFOs -- or the UFO's we see are terrestrial, but this doesn't preclude alien involvement.

Aliens have to exist, and if they exist, there are many that are more than 10,000 years more advanced -- it's not likely that a Universe over 10 billion years old would have consciousness happen all at the same time -- but if it did, then well, that would say a lot I suppose.

Humans science is just figuring out now, that we can scan for the telltale signs of life on planets by looking for polarized light bouncing from the surface. That is a long discussion as to why -- but it's clear, that a more advanced race would be able to look at earth and say; "There is life."

>> So logically, Aliens KNOW of earth. What they decide to do from there, is all conjecture.

My gut tells me, that there is thousands of advanced aliens (but many living virtual-machine existences), and that there are treaties of what they do with younger races like ours.

Our Governments may have stumbled upon aliens -- but that would be all up to the advanced races and their "policy" towards us. Our Government's would of course lie to us no matter what. It's the nature of humans to have secrets if there is an advantage -- I'm sure THEY are convinced, it is for the nation's best interest. Just as some of them are duped into thinking we invaded Iraq for some reason but enriching some Oil Robber Barons. From what I've seen so far, the elite of our earth are quite corrupt, and despicable, and it's a Country Club of sociopaths.

Hence, Alien influence is very minimal at best. Just look at Darfur, and tell me if a Vegetarian would approve -- no? I conclude UFOs to be from earth.

reply to post by VitriolAndAngst


lol i am sorry no proof of WWII UFOs? even when both the allies, and the Axis believed it was some secret aircraft from the other side yet they were not?... The fact that both sides thougth it was some "secret weapon from the enemies" is a tell tale sign that these aircraft were from neither side.

BTW, why is it that some people must claim that "they must be not intelligent lifeforms because they don't stop what happens in (insert anme of place)"? or some such excuse?....

Who are you to know why they are around? the fact is that they have been around for millenium, and there have been massive sightings throughout the ages, which points to the fact that they are not "government aircraft".

We can speculate as to what their intentions are, but it is only speculation.
I'l rather concentrate on the evidence, and the evidence points that just like in past millenium as there have been massive sightings of UFOs, and just like they are now seen all over the world, they are most definetedly not some "government aircraft".

We even know many of the secret aircraft our government was working with back in the 40's-70's, and these were secret back then.



[edit on 12-7-2009 by ElectricUniverse]

Here is what another astronaut, Buzz Aldrin, has to say about his own encounters with UFOs.

www.youtube.com...

Originally posted by ElectricUniverse
reply to post by serbsta

 

I see, obviously you haven't studied this for very long.

Astronauts have talked about this, and even recordings of what they described have been made available.

www.youtube.com...

ronrecord.com...

I'm not going for the Moon base theory yet.

I would just say, that IF advanced aliens were going to have interaction with humans -- they'd limit it to a test population first.

If the humans can deal with the advances and the new world view -- then they would one day be ambassadors to help the rest of us.

>> You don't try a new gene sequence on ALL THE MICE, just a few in the lab, right?


I don't think it's likely that our astronauts stumbled upon advanced aliens -- UNLESS, it was part of a test, and once we get off planet they say; "here we are."

However, if they stumbled on a group off earth and the technologies are only a few hundred years more advanced -- that would likely be a colony of Humans that had some interaction with advanced aliens.

I just don't think we'd have our first meeting with Aliens that were just a bit ahead of us -- they'd be VERY far ahead. Just look at what an F-22 could have done to an aircraft carrier in th WW II. It could have sunk it, destroyed all the planes, and then gone after another until it ran out of rockets or fuel. It could just fly in a loop, ten miles away, and destroy everything. A stealth bomber wouldn't even be seen.


>> Extend your pinky out at the night sky--pick the blackest, most vacant stretch you can see. Just the tip encompasses an area that the Hubble telescope can view and discern more than a billion galaxies. Think about that.

There is ABSOLUTELY no way, that there are not more advanced races out there. And given a billion years -- if we don't blow ourselves up, we should be pretty dang God-like. It's inevitable.

If you have a cell phone -- you realize that someone can dial your number. If you have a radio, you can tune it to a station. Without those devices, you would be totally unaware of a billion radio messages passing through your body.

We've had these trinkets less than 100 years. We only get a tiny slice of reality.

Likely it's all so much more incredible.

>> Someone out there knows we are here. Not sure if they will save us from our folly. But if we knew that they would -- we probably wouldn't develop. We'd blame daddy, or build temples to mommy. The fact that SETI doesn't find anything out there, tells me NOT that there is nothing out there -- but that there are God-like races and that they have non-interference policies to some extent.

The IMPLICATIONS of INFINITY means that everything is not only likely, it's happened and someone got a t-shirt.

reply to post by VitriolAndAngst


I keep thinking that you are trying to speculate their reason for being around, and showing themselves with your own human emotions.

Who knows if they even have the same emotions, and or intentions that we have?

That could even be the reason why many of them don't land in the middle of the whitehouse, or on central park and show themselves. There are probably many different lifeforms, and some of them might even look hideous to us.

As i said before that is just speculation. I'll rather stick to the evidence.





[edit on 13-7-2009 by ElectricUniverse]

Originally posted by ElectricUniverse
reply to post by VitriolAndAngst

 

lol i am sorry no proof of WWII UFOs? even when both the allies, and the Axis believed it was some secret aircraft from the other side yet they were not?... The fact that both sides thougth it was some "secret weapon from the enemies" is a tell tale sign that these aircraft were from neither side.

BTW, why is it that some people must claim that "they must be not intelligent lifeforms because they don't stop what happens in (insert anme of place)"? or some such excuse?....

Who are you to know why they are around? the fact is that they have been around for millenium, and there have been massive sightings throughout the ages, which points to the fact that they are not "government aircraft".

We can speculate as to what their intentions are, but it is only speculation.
I'l rather concentrate on the evidence, and the evidence points that just like in past millenium as there have been massive sightings of UFOs, and just like they are now seen all over the world, they are most definetedly not some "government aircraft".

We even know many of the secret aircraft our government was working with back in the 40's-70's, and these were secret back then.



[edit on 12-7-2009 by ElectricUniverse]

>> If anyone actually knows what is going on -- they are probably laughing at this debate.

I'm just saying that to have craft in the historical record and then see something not much better in WW II is kind of unlikely. The WW II craft look like a "model T." Our automotive industry, has produced cars in 2008 that get about the same gas mileage as a Model T (it ran on alcohol), but that's only because we are in thrall to robber barons who want us to waste resources and make a buck.

lol i am sorry no proof of WWII UFOs? even when both the allies, and the Axis believed it was some secret aircraft from the other side yet they were not?
There's only PROOF of things, if the establishment and Main Stream TV broadcast it. I'm absolutely sure there was a conspiracy to kill JFK and it wasn't a lone gunman. There was an attempt on his life 3 days before in Florida, but that DOESN'T make it into the press, and the documents were quickly removed after being accidentally released.

So if ONE SIDE had a flying saucer, they might claim it was the other sides. If we had the same ruthless leadership that has us all killing ourselves with bad food, bad car exhaust, burning mercury laced coal while they had this technology? In the past 8 years, I've lost all my faith in my government and any illusions of a Democracy. A little hope with the new guy, but now that the CIA helped business again in Honduras --- well, it's business as usual. But to have the world kill itself, while the lords fly to the moon? That would cement my disgust for the Powers That Be. There were 800,000 people estimated, to be sold into slavery in 2008 -- most of course in dirt poor nations. Some places you can take home a kid for less than $100. That's our world of inequity so that some fat ass can eat more steak and drive a lear jet.

>>> THAT has a lot to do with flying saucers and moon bases. Our Carbon Economy is either just a necessity because it makes a profit, or it's a necessity to keep us ignorant.

Humans have proof of very little but what justifies the current greedy bastards existence in a position of power. John Smith talked to God according to the Mormons, Jesus did a lot of miracles according to the Pope -- exactly as the Egyptians told their people that Horus made miracles.

We have PROOF of crap that is a lie, and no proof of things that are inconvenient.

Three buildings at the WTC fell at free-fall speed on 9/11. The steel was carted off to China. A hundred firefighters claimed they heard explosions. About a half dozen people of credibility claimed to have warned the government. No proof. Just a bunch of speculation. And somehow, a million experts on the web now think that kerosene can get hot enough to bring down a steel building. They PROVED to everyone, that two airplanes can bring down three skyscrapers and one bullet can make three holes at Deely Plaza.

You can stampede cows to grass or off a cliff. Humans might have opposable thumbs and individually be clever -- but as a group, we've got an iffy record for believing things that make sense.

Some old photos of saucer shaped craft might be real, or it might be a big con. A hub cap on a string. We had a few thousand cardboard tanks set to invade France setup to fool the Germans. Nobody is going to be convinced by outlandish claims during a time of war -- whether or not they have merit. War begins and ends with a lie -- and most often, you don't really know why you were fighting. Did we just get the suckers in Germany, and the "Reich" was just a con to make a buck and keep people down? It wouldn't surprise me. The NeoCons in this country want to Liberate something, and end up supporting Oligarchs.

We really desperately want to believe in something -- the more we feel powerless to change events. It's a compelling crutch to self-determination. It's best if we try our best to make this world work for people with what we have at hand. We can still entertain these notions -- but nothing will come of it.


If you want to show PROOF of a flying saucer -- then get one and land it in front of the goal post during the Super Bowl. Other than that, you've got to convince some corporate executives who might hire death squads to kill union workers so that they can export cheaper bananas that we have a RIGHT to know the truth.

Originally posted by ElectricUniverse
reply to post by VitriolAndAngst

 

I keep thinking that you are trying to speculate their reason for being around, and showing themselves with your own human emotions.

Who knows if they even have the same emotions, and or intentions that we have?

That could even be the reason why many of them don't land in the middle of the whitehouse, or on central park and show themselves. There are probably many different lifeforms, and some of them might even look hideous to us.

As i said before that is just speculation. I'll rather stick to the evidence.

[edit on 13-7-2009 by ElectricUniverse]

I'm sticking to Deductive Reasoning. Wish in one hand and put "UFO EVIDENCE" in the other -- whichever hand you now spit in wins.

This is a debate between two people with no proof.

>> I'm not speculating on emotions. Merely deducing reality based upon what I know to be true of the reality I can witness. Sure, they might be able to tolerate sapient races that eat their own young. But I really don't think that such races ever make it off planet. Curiosity leads to advancement. Hostility and competition lead to war. Combine the two, and eventually the ability of one individual to kill many others, increases to the point where nuclear cyborg wipes out planet with anti-matter.

NO radio transmissions found by SETI. NO admission of contact by Government. Some curious testimony by astronauts that I'm willing to believe. The Arizona governor and about 150 people in those parts witnessed something about a mile in size and lived to tell about it on Larry King. So the aliens are ACTIVELY NOT being noticed, and yet we get these clumsy flybys with the Apollo mission. Why bother removing signals if you are going to do that?

But, I have to admit, that an another race looking at human radio and television signals, would have a 50 year window where they could capture analog signals that could be interpreted. After that, compression and multi-band technologies are going to make most signals too complicated to look like anything but noise after passing through space and no language reference for anyone receiving them. Maybe in 100 years we might have technology or a theory of how ANYONE would compress signals -- math being the only universal constant we know of.

The FACT that there is SOME evidence of Flying saucers being seen, makes me think they are terrestrial. Because if we have no contact with the aliens yet -- they don't want to be seen. So they wouldn't.

Now there could be a whole bunch of scenarios for how the Universe is. I just go by how vast it is, how common I think life is, and based on that I'm pretty certain that there are life forms that have been in outer space for over a few thousand years.

From that I deduce that they've overcome their need for resources -- which is the main reason for competition on this planet. If they have psychopathic creatures that would wipe out others to ensure their own power -- then they'd have wiped themselves out before troubling the rest of the galaxy. Either there is one big, draconian badass in a galaxy, or there are thousands of advanced races leaving each other alone at worst, and cooperating most likely.

Now I point to the problem a few enlightened people have with other humans -- and suspect that Advanced humans, might have developed and left the rest of us behind-- but I don't know of any time until the past 50 when anyone could reasonably do that. Or it's a colony for future contact. Aliens that can't stand us, wouldn't be in the neighborhood.

>> The reaction of our government NOW, seems more casual. A decade or two ago, they actively embarrassed people who claimed to witness UFOs. Which is more likely, if they were suppressing some secret.

I don't see any likely scenarios where aliens are not aware of life on earth. I'm more inclined to believe now, that if they were traveling around and didn't want us to know -- we wouldn't. So if they haven't revealed themselves -- it's some terrestrial craft that is very advanced but no so much as to be impossible to detect.

reply to post by ElectricUniverse


No, thats false, and is a statement a 12 year old would make. What i want to believe is what i think has enough proof and makes logical (if possible) sense. I assume you are the same, no?

No, Tesla didn't specify nor state anything about any of his craft leaving the atmosphere as far as i know. Where did i imply this?

reply to post by VitriolAndAngst


What in the world did everything you just said have to do with the fact that there is evidence of alien aircraft visiting us, and being around for millenium?...

There is much in the world that sucks, yeah, so what? That has nothing to do with the ufo phenomenon, and it doesn't make it any less real.

You actually thought the last 8 years were bad?.... President Obama wasted more money than any other president ever. Over three trillion dollars were lost into a vacuum in the first few months of President Obama's presidency. He and his administration have implemented more dictatorial Socialist laws, and programs that are turning people into complete slaves, and the Obama administration is trying to take more rights from us, not to mention that the DHS, and Janet Napolitano have labeled most REAL Americans as "possible terrorists"...

Now thanks to Democrats, and Liberals American children, and every American won't be able to choose anymore whether he/she wants to do Community Service... Now it is mandatory...

But none of that has anything at all to do with the UFO phenomenon...

What we are discussing is about the evidence. Some of you want to claim no-matter what that there is no evidence, but you are sounding like the people who don't want to believe any evidence at all.

Our own astronauts have come forward to state they have seen such aircraft, and they are not ours.

Military personnel, which includes, or included me have also seen such aircraft and we can tell you THEY ARE NOT OURS.

We have evidence from every civilization and their ancient texts which clearly show that such aircraft have been around for millenium.

We have detailed descriptions. We have paintings from most time periods which also show such aircraft, and still there are people who want to claim most of them must be or are most likely to be "government aircraft"?....

The evidence is there, all over the world, but some people just don't want to believe it no-matter what.




[edit on 13-7-2009 by ElectricUniverse]

reply to post by serbsta


False? you don't want to believe what astronauts, military personnel, professional passenger pilots have to say. You want to make your own conclusion as to what the ancient cultures were talking about when they made it clear. There are descriptions, and even paintings of alien aircraft we even see today which were seen by ancient people throughout the history of mankind.

Sorry to say that the only 12 year old argument is that you want to make your own conclusions, instead of actually looking at the evidence without any bias.

Where is the evidence that " it is more likely that most of the sightings are man-made", when most of these sightings happen in places like Mexico, and the aircraft in question exhibit movements which would make most humans pass out because of the g-forces attained by such manouvers. Not to mention that such aircraft perform feats which go against everything we know about physics.

All you are doing is dismissing the evidence that you don't want to accept, and making your own conclusion.

You made out your mind even before you started looking at the evidence.

But hey, anyone is free to think whatever they want to think. Whether it is the truth or not.



[edit on 13-7-2009 by ElectricUniverse]

reply to post by ElectricUniverse


Mate, im completely open to discussion on this, and one of the reasons i joined ATS was due to my interest with ancient texts and particularly in regards to ancient visitations.

If i came across as biased and ignorant then i am guilty, that was not the intention. I am simply leaning slightly to one side at the moment with what i have seen and read.

Maybe those were real visitations as recorded by the ancients, who knows? I am not against evidence, i just feel there is more against it than for it. There is nothing wrong with that right?

reply to post by ElectricUniverse


What is this EVIDENCE you keep speaking of?

You don't even know what the heck Socialism is. A big hint; It's not bailing out corporations so that they can move manufacturing to China and get out of obligations to Unions.

America was pretty dang OK when we had high taxes and lots of those horrible unions everyone on the TV and who consider themselves "enlightened" keep bitching about.

Our buying power as a middle class has reduced along with "freeing ourselves" of all the wasteful socialist programs. Nixon, had more socialism from the viewpoint of our modern yardstick.

>> You aren't getting what I'm saying about evidence. If we have moon bases then we've got an even more parasitic and totalitarian secret government than we thought. Socialist? In Sweden, they have a heck of a lot more control of the government than we do. The Group that is running our lives is corporations -- but you guys keep thinking there is a free market.

A few photos from WW II and some "documentation?" It isn't going to cut it. Those photos are about as bad as the photos of Bin Laden -- and he likely died in December of 2001.

I'm pointing out the BAD CRAP to show that EVIDENCE doesn't exist for lots of things I KNOW to be true, because there is no support for it.

If the Status Quo doesn't want us to believe in aliens -- you have to get a space ship.

I'm not saying there is or isn't. Not having read every link I can't say I haven't missed it. I looked at the sites from Germany. Great. Websites aren't proof I'm afraid. We need good video, witnesses, and some technology. We have enough to know that SOMETHING is going on but not what is going on.

Tesla got his genius by experimenting with electricity.
His experiments of 1892 are all written down.
There are no ETs now or in the bible so there is no back engineering possible.
There are no mysteries except for the ones being kept from us.
Thats why there are these forums in the first place.
The information superhighway has the whole story.