This is just amazing, Guy can boil water with his own energy

No, no, no, no, no. If you accept that video as being an example of “controlled conditions” your threshold is far too low.

Who checked that paper towel? Did he bring it with him? Did they perform any chemical analysis on it to make sure he wasn’t taking advantage of any chemical reactions? My first reaction watching that was that he was using a combination of chemicals or a single chemical along with the tinfoil (that’s a BIG giveaway) to create an exothermic reaction when combined.

That may or may not be what is going on but the point is that in this video no one did anything to protect against that possibility.

Personally I’m betting that this was probability something like a CuCl2 + H2O + Al reaction. Look it up!


Just because you don’t understand something doesn’t mean you should believe the first explanation that someone hands to you. I don’t know how he’s doing this but the fact of the matter is neither do you.


reply to post by Edrick


There is a gaping hole in your logic. Determining whether something exists is different to explaining how it works; you seem to be treating the two as one.

You are making a presumption that this Chi force exists, that hasn’t been verified, but it can be. If you put this man through extensive, controlled tests to determine whether he is genuinely generating heat spontaneously then you can say Chi exists. You don’t have to explain what is happening, just that something is happening. Unfortunately no one has been able to come forward and do that; either nothing significant happens at all or their tricks are uncovered.


[edit on 9-7-2009 by Mike_A]

reply to post by Mike_A

Its all about focus, discipline and concentration.
We only use 10% of our mental ability on average.
Some use far less, I'm sure.
Did the heat sensing camera lie also?
Why did it not burn his hand too then?
How did he walk on the paper without extreme focus regardless?
Why believe any of it then?
Better that most dont get it, I guess.
Otherwise, like everthing else it will end up used,
abused, and/or exploited for the good of the few.

reply to post by Kaytagg


Never underestimate ones ability to pull the wool over their own eyes.

IRM

reply to post by dodadoom

We only use 10% of our mental ability on average.

No we don’t that’s a fallacy.

Did the heat sensing camera lie also?
Why did it not burn his hand too then?
How did he walk on the paper without extreme focus regardless?
Why believe any of it then?

- No. Assuming that the crew didn’t lie (you can’t discount that but I will for sake of argument) then I’ll accept that. However the camera doesn’t have to lie if he’s using a method similar to the one I described.

- Firstly he never fully holds it in his hand except for when he was moving it, that’s going to help prevent injury the same as moving quickly over hot coals does. Though he does hold on to it without moving it around this is only at one end; I noticed that at around the 4min mark the thermal camera shows a cool spot at one end which of course would be very easy to do if it was a chemical reaction. Secondly, and in addition to the two points above he may have very thick skin; I play guitar and the tips of my fingers are very tough to the point I’ve pressed them against boiling hot pans straight off the stove and felt next to nothing. I have no doubts about the limits of human physiology in that regard.

- I didn’t watch that bit. Don’t get the wrong impression, I’m not trying to debunk this, I’m just trying to illustrate why this does NOT constitute a test under controlled conditions. Of course if it’s not under controlled conditions, no one can make any definitive claims about this being a hoax or a genuine example of Chi power. Though they're free to point out that it's a bit odd that someone with this power hasn't submitted to more rigorous scientific scrutiny.

- Exactly, if you have no reason to believe it then why would you? Thus I don’t. Are you familiar with Derren Brown? If not look him up on youtube. What he does is amazing, the equal of any psychic or medium and it defies any prima fascia explanation; but he always explains that what he does is a trick. If he did his act on you, i.e. it fits your criteria of experiencing it first hand AND you can’t come up with any explanation for it, and he claimed he was a genuine psychic would you believe him?

LOl. this thread makes me laugh.

People who don't undertsand the oldest and most common form of human energy are truly lost. TV has really Fdup the mind now a days. People asking for Scientific proof really?


There has been a lot scientist on the matter, through out the years, yet no modern tools are capable of even seen the energy.

we are multi demensional beings, and we are loosing that everysingle day, why beause sheep make better followers.

imagen being incontrol of such power...man will disapear.

who ever doubts this needs to educate them selves a little more.

BTW - I'm a magician, I can practically explain all the tricks on the book and I perform from time to time in some casinos near here.
these are no tricks in the videos.

only magician I know of ever using chi power for performances is Cyril Takayama look him up. Ive had interesting conversations with him, he meditates 3hours a day :O

It is absolutely REAL folks. I once had a chi master direct his energy into a bottle of water. I then took a drop of that water, placed it in another bottle of water shook it up and repeated that process 100 times. The resulting water has been powering my home for over 3 years.

reply to post by IchooseFreewill


You are claiming things for which you readily admit you have absolutely no evidence for. How can you not see the complete lack of logic in that?

By the same token you should believe in every single religion that's going, psychics, mediums, people who claim they're talking to beings from another planet. They all claim equal conviction and have crowds of people citing deep personal experiences but you don't, indeed by their contradictory nature you can't believe them all.

If these powers are real then why can’t anyone demonstrate them under controlled conditions? We don’t have to find out how they work or anything like that, they just have to do something that defies any other explanation.


All you're doing in that post is ridiculing any who disputes your personal beliefs, you've made no attempt to defend them just put down the opposition. Perhaps you're doing this subconsciously but maybe you should think about why you're doing it at all.

reply to post by Mike_A

Thanks for the reply! I knew it, we use even less!
No seriously thanks, I hear ya now.

I'm not sayin the vid is real either,
what I AM saying is there is a universal
energy that flows through everything.
When you tap into it, you can achieve amazing things.
Maybe thats what this guy is doing.

The chinese have used these treatments for centuries with great success.
Just the fact we dont understand it or want to, proves who we really are.
We're called sheeple for a reason.
I'm pretty sure sheep would never believe in a slaughterhouse either.
I'm pretty sure the guy he was interviewing, that had treatment, was lieing too. No, dont believe everything.
But some things are okay to experience, really, it wont hurt.
Why deny yourself a fantasic healing because of a little cynicism? Unbelievable. And sad.
Dont forget to feed big pharma!

reply to post by Mike_A

There is a gaping hole in your logic. Determining whether something exists is different to explaining how it works; you seem to be treating the two as one.

There is no Hole in my logic, you are presuming that I am stating something that I am not.

Allow me to Explain:

You are making a presumption that this Chi force exists, that hasn’t been verified, but it can be.

No, I am not making any presumptions.

1. There were exhibited unusual (Read: improbable) heat levels on his hand.

This proves that SOMETHING other than normal biological reactions are taking place.

If you put this man through extensive, controlled tests to determine whether he is genuinely generating heat spontaneously then you can say Chi exists.

Yes, exactly.

We see Heat, And we don't know HOW it is done.

The ENERGY is there, the understanding of the Mechanism is not.

To presume that it is definitely *NOT* some form of "Life Force Energy* is antithetical to science.

Science does NOT presume.

Therefore, saying that it is NOT Chi energy, without proving that it *IS* definitively something ELSE, is unscientific.

You have not yet FALSIFIED the claim of Chi energy, therefore, as a GOOD scientist, you cannot say that it is DEFINITELY NOT Chi energy.

Because you really don't know, do you?


This is essentially the same argument as the GOD debate, where some scientist tries to DISPROVE the existence of God through science.

And that is not how science works.

To Science, something is not FALSE, unless it can be DEMONSTRATED to be false.


What I see going on here in this thread, is people attempting to state that something is *FALSE* by claiming that Science has NOT proven it to be *TRUE*.

This is the OPPOSITE of what science does.


Am I getting through to you?

-Edrick

reply to post by dodadoom

what I AM saying is there is a universal
energy that flows through everything.
When you tap into it, you can achieve amazing things.

Well that’s an incredibly vague concept, I mean light can be described as energy, so can sound, our neurons are constantly passing electrical signals around our body and we do make use of all of this.

However you cannot prove or provide evidence for anything resembling Chi; that is the issue.

When you tap into it, you can achieve amazing things.
Maybe thats what this guy is doing.

But you have no reason to believe any of that. And when I say reason, I don’t mean “I saw someone do it once” because as has already been demonstrated personal experiences are not always accurate.

The chinese have used these treatments for centuries with great success.
Just the fact we dont understand it or want to, proves who we really are.
We're called sheeple for a reason.

That makes no sense. Think about what you’re saying for a second; because no one is willing or able to demonstrate an ability that defies any known rational explanation under controlled circumstances I am a sheep. The logical conclusion is that I should believe anything anyone tells me.

I therefore repeat the question I posted earlier; why not believe in every religion, psychic, medium or anything else for that matter so long as someone claims it to be real?

I'm pretty sure the guy he was interviewing, that had treatment, was lieing too. No, dont believe everything.

What do you mean? All he said was “it’s real”. There was no examination of any of the equipment or surroundings shown; he doesn’t have to be lying, he may just be wrong. But even so, him feeling better means nothing, it may be a psychosomatic response (which has been demonstrated under controlled conditions) or it may be that he feels better due to the heat of the towel (bearing in mind we don’t know how the towel was heated).

Why deny yourself a fantasic healing because of a little cynicism? Unbelievable.

Why waste time, money and effort because of a little gullibility?

I’m open to this being real but I’m not going to believe it without evidence, why is that so unreasonable? You’re asking me to say, despite the fact that I have no evidence of anything abnormal happening here, and despite the fact that I can conceive of more likely explanations for what is happening, I’ll nevertheless disregard all of that and believe in something which no one is willing to demonstrate to me under controlled conditions. Would you like to buy my magic beans perhaps?



reply to post by Edrick



You stated in an earlier post;

“ I am SAYING, that this "Chi" energy is NOT magic, but a form of knowledge (Read in LATIN: SCIENCE) that we have not fully investigated, or explained yet.”

That seemed to suggest that you accept the existence of some form of Chi energy.

If that’s not the case then I apologise for the misunderstanding. Therefore I’m sure we can both agree that while the existence of a Chi force has not been emphatically disproven, by the virtue of the fact that no one has come forward with empirical evidence for its existence, to believe that it does would be highly illogical and erroneous.

reply to post by Mike_A

You stated in an earlier post;

“ I am SAYING, that this "Chi" energy is NOT magic, but a form of knowledge (Read in LATIN: SCIENCE) that we have not fully investigated, or explained yet.”

That seemed to suggest that you accept the existence of some form of Chi energy.

If that’s not the case then I apologise for the misunderstanding. Therefore I’m sure we can both agree that while the existence of a Chi force has not been emphatically disproven, by the virtue of the fact that no one has come forward with empirical evidence for its existence, to believe that it does would be highly illogical and erroneous.

You will of course notice that I put the word Chi in "Quotes", I did this for a specific reason.

I stated that this Energy is NOT magic, but a form of Knowledge.

This applies to a spiritual force attained through meditation, as well as chemical heating, hoaxery, or something.

I do not believe in the supernatural, because even if the "Miraculous" happens, it will undoubtedly happen through completely normal methods that we simply do not understand.

Thus, thins that appear to be "Magic", would not be Supernatural, but merely Natural, and Unexplainable by current scientific observation and hypothesis.


Though, yes, I completely agree with your last statement.

Chi energy has NOT been dis-proven.

And I'll even agree to your other "implied" point.

Chi energy has not been PROVEN either.

To this "Chi" energy, Science ... as it stands, must remain Agnostic, until such time as testing, hypothesis, theory, and then knowledge can occur.


I'm just playing Scientific referee...

Although, I have to admit, if this chi energy DID exist, it would be AWESOME.

-Edrick

Chi is real, I witnessed it firsthand when I was little in a documentary called 'Dragonball'
media.photobucket.com...

One thing that I haven't seen in any replies yet .. You ask why somebody having such powers (or similar ones)does not want to go with "scientific" testing . Well imagine what would happen if somebody decided he will go through with the "closed environment testing" (of course if he was geniue) and prove to have some kind of "weird powers".

From that moment on , he would be tested ,retested , poked , tested , retested , scanned, probably drugged , scanned, tested , retested , poked, probed ... I think You get my point

And I suspect (and I would say any logical thinking person would have a similar assumption) none of those test results would ever see the light of day , or at least not for a long time. And probably the person that was willing to be tested would be locked up somewhere deep in some kind of science lab as a test experiment .

So tell me would YOU go ahead and get your life destroyed just to prove to somebody that you really have the powers that you know you have ?

Of course I am basing the above statement on the hypothetical notion that the governments do not know about this and do not have their own psi teams, which in my opinion is bunk cause they do have them and they do know about it in which case that said person would probably face a pretty simple choice .. "work for us or disappear , but the proof stays with us either way"

[edit on 9-7-2009 by Thill]

reply to post by tothetenthpower


just give up on that guy he obviously doesnt understand physiscs either, quantum physics pretty much proves this is possible, and hes probably just trying to be annoying

How about some religious proof sod scientific...

If people haven't figured out yet SCIENCE IS RIGHT UNTIL PROVEN WRONG that means it holds far less TRUTH than you would like to think.

There was a thread on here disproving the big bang the other day! and some members on here want to have the audacity to claim they have some underlying scientific knowledge that can prove or disprove anything!!!

At the end of the day a scientific test cannot prove this. If you want proof...find a master learn how to manipulate Chi & meditate 8 hours a day for 30 years....DIDN'T THINK SO

A couple of observations:

Ripley's Believe it or Not is in the business of entertainment, thus anything they show can't really be taken as scientific. It's just like all of these ghost hunter shows on television now-a-days. I'm sure they would do anything for the ratings, even fraud.

That being said, his hand not getting hot isn't really proof of it being fake. Ever see one of those stove tops that magnetically heats the pan? The pan gets hot, but the stove top stays cool. Maybe that's what the foil in the center of the paper towel is for.

Anyway, I'll reserve judgment until it's verified in a reproducible scientific experiment.

Interesting responses. This is great. This is my first post being that I just recently signed on to ATS. So about this "chi" thing.

I have personally experienced Kundalini Yoga. If you are interested, it has a technique called the "breath of fire". By using this technique, an individual can raise their own internal body temperature. If done properly, I have heard it theorized that an individual could raise the temperature of a room. The idea is similar to that of a heater. As I have said, that was theorized.

As much as I hate to say it, I was watching television... and the History Channel had a documentary on "real life superheroes". One individual, who was heavily schooled in meditation and yoga, proved, under laboratory conditions, that he could control this own body temperature. He exposed himself to damagingly cold conditions while jogging through deep mountaintop snow with nothing on but his boxers, and received no damage to his body when doctors were fully expecting him to die. He then completely immersed himself into an ice-bath for over twenty minutes. Again, he was actually able to raise his internal body temp (only ever so slightly), and doctors were completely baffled. No one could explain this, and everyone agreed that any normal person would have been dead.

He accomplished this with meditation alone simply maintaining his internal temp, and he was not using any yogic technique designed to raise his temperature. While I agree that the gentleman being discussed using "chi" could have very well been a hoax, I choose not to completely disregard the idea. That is kind of like "throwing the baby out with the bathwater", as one would say.

Originally posted by Josephus23
He accomplished this with meditation alone simply maintaining his internal temp, and he was not using any yogic technique designed to raise his temperature. While I agree that the gentleman being discussed using "chi" could have very well been a hoax, I choose not to completely disregard the idea. That is kind of like "throwing the baby out with the bathwater", as one would say.

I have to quibble with you the tiniest bit - I saw the program as well and remember the narrator stating that he used an advanced Yoga technique. I was soo hoping he'd describe what it was exactly, but he didn't. The man was definitely impressive!!

reply to post by Ignorance Denied
my chi is blocked and badly polluted...how do I make it flow freely and cleanse it?

Originally posted by Kaytagg
reply to post by tothetenthpower

 

That's because they're tricks. If you want to learn how to pull them off, study magic. There are plenty of magic books out there for beginners, and I'm sure it doesn't take too much knowledge to learn how to pull of tricks like this.

And if you're really good, you can demonstrate how your "chi energy" can saw a person in half and then put them back together again.

You're just a young fool. Have fun living in a fantasy world created by the government.