This is just amazing, Guy can boil water with his own energy

Great video, the Dynamite Jack one is fantastic also.

I would also like to interject here and attempt to explain how real magic (the manipulation of subtle energies, soul alchemy and the manipulation of reality) and illusions and stage style magic are linked. And subsequently, the existance of slight of hand illusions does not negate the existance of real magic.

They knowledge of both arts spring from the same source, which is basically experimentation into the limits and potential of the human body, mind and spirit.

We see Indian fakirs and Chinese kung fu practicioners performing many amazing feats that are nothing but illusions and tricks, basically fooling someones perception or using physics and willpower or mentality and concentration to overcome what the normal human body and mindset cannot.

But that is not to say these people do not possess supernatural powers. In fact illusions and forcing certain mental states are like cheats that let us remember or experience the other planes of reality. Native Americans used to do a ritual where the shaman would trick the initiate into thinking they had control over day and night by hypnotism.

Many secret societies and belief systems use these techniques to reach goals that they clearly believe to be more than just illusions. Nearly every culture has a belief system with the basic tenants of a qi style life force and dualistic Taoist philosophies. They all have room for an afterlife (notice how Dynamite Jack said his anscestors were haunting him). They all contain advanced knowledge of some sort and they generally correlate well with each other.

Meditation, alchemy, magic, Qi-Kung, Reiki, Vodoo, Paganism, Gnostisism, Kaballah, Hinduism, Satanism, the Kahuna religion of the South Pacific, the beliefs of the Mayans the teachings of Islam etc....

All energy manipulation and realisation of the connectedness of reality.

reply to post by LeTan


Not really. Plenty of the best Athletes the west has to offer routinely volunteer for medical tests to determine what it is that makes their bodies so special.

Lance Armstrong had a whole tv show on the science of his body. It was very interesting. He has twice the lung capacity of normal people, for instance.

Here's the video:

And there have been plenty of boxers, MMA fighters, gymnasts, swimmers, runners, etc, who have done the exact same thing.


So give me a mother flippin break that "the energy can't be harnessed if someone smart is looking." That's such a load of bunk that the only person you could possibly by convincing with this kind of skewed logic is yourself.

The reason they won't do this in a laboratory is the same reason magicians can't make elephants disappear in a laboratory -- but they CAN make elephants disappear when they're on their stage, or in their environment. It's because IT IS A TRICK. I feel sorry for people who are so easily fooled by this stuff. It's just as exploitive as Tarot card readers.

reply to post by LeTan


And for the monks who fool the tourists. I'm not easily fooled the monastery which I went too has been there for centuries, and no, they don't have "tours" for tourists.

I just happen to be climbing the mountain when I encountered one of them.

~Keeper

reply to post by Kaytagg


All your examples are of entertainers themselves. They are atheletes who perform for the people for money and glory. Maybe some of them do it for personal accomplishment, but they are still in the entertainment industry. Qi gong and eastern arts aren't there for entertainment, they are there for self improvement and harmony.

Honestly, believe what you wish, but by no means tread on another person's belief because it is different from what yours is. And keep your pity for yourself who is closed minded to think that humans are at the pinnacle of science where it can explain everything. It is a shelter for closed minds.

[edit on 8-7-2009 by LeTan]

reply to post by LeTan


I'll tread on ignorance all I want. It's one of my favorite things to do.

Anyone who believes this stuff is being fooled. There are plenty of magicians who can do the tricks he's doing, IE, walk over paper without breaking it. Most western magicians, like David Blane, often do much more impressive tricks.

Western magicians are in the business of fooling people who KNOW they are being fooled -- so there is no need to add an elaborate back story, or claim to have special powers. The only claim being made by western magicians is that they can do things that you can't explain. They make no claims of having mystical powers, just elaborate tricks.

The eastern magicians, whom you call chi masters, are in the business of fooling people who don't know they're being fooled -- and part of that is adding an elaborate back story about unknown energies, dynasty of descendants, decades of practice, and countless hours of meditation, etc.

What they're really doing is performing a magic trick, except they do it in front of people who aren't expecting to see a magic trick. People who would never guess that a professional magician could possibly be found in the mountains somewhere (I thought they all hailed from Las Vegas?).

In reality, they are just con men. A profession that dates back thousands of years.

If you're modeling your life after these con men, you wouldn't be the first. But you should realize you'll never be able to do the things they do, unless you learn the secret to the illusion.

reply to post by Kaytagg


So if you are stating that you know this as fact. This means that you've seen EVERY Eastern Chi Master live in front of you do these things right?

You know for a fact that this is an illusion and not some form of actual energy being produced?

Wow, you've got to be some old to have done all that traveling.

I ask again, how old are you?

~Keeper

I'm on dial-up, so I can't watch the video until tomorrow. I was wondering whether the water he boiled was in an open or closed container. Water will start to boil at room temperature if you pump enough of the air out of the container if it's a closed one, is why I am asking.

If that's what you wish to believe then believe it. I won't try to change your mind. You sound very self righteous and believe your word to be absolute truth without question. You make all sorts of claims about a race and line of people whom you seem to know little to nothing about because it is outside your reach. You have never studied the arts nor done any research on them, but hey, that is your choice. You tread on ignorance as a hobby, be careful not to leave shoe prints on your own mind.
(Addressed to Kaytagg)

[edit on 8-7-2009 by LeTan]

Originally posted by Kaytagg
What they're really doing is performing a magic trick, except they do it in front of people who aren't expecting to see a magic trick. People who would never guess that a professional magician could possibly be found in the mountains somewhere (I thought they all hailed from Las Vegas?).

In reality, they are just con men. A profession that dates back thousands of years.

Did you even read my post up there?

Why dont you answer why all those cultures mentioned and more believe in this force and all the other important information that the tptb have tried to hide from sight while they use it for their own gain?

Kaytagg I starred every single post of yours in this thread. Everything you said impressed me. Demanding experimental evidence is Science in the basic simplest form.

If you do not DEMAND experimental evidence then you are P.T. Barnums favorite type of person born every minute.

reply to post by TurkeyBurgers


Scientific proof is not proof. It only means that we are clever monkeys and have found a way to observe something that's going on around us.

Science is only our best guess at the time and that imperical system is useless when speaking of human energies and the soul.

Sorry to break it to you but there is no proof that can be shown, other than actually seeing it for yourself, which I have, on multiple occasions, with multiple people who did not know each other.

Again, people can choose to believe what they want, but if you close your mind to these kinds of things than that's you're loss. What ever happened to innocent until proven guilty?

~Keeper

Iam guessing this guy believed in it as much as you can barring actual death....



I have seen many demonstrations from masters of escrima and have seen many demonstrations in the real where the master (Pep Padavano being one) cuts apples or melons on peoples stomaches ( not illusions, actually happening). The guy in this video is not attempting a trick or a feat of skill, he fully believes his arm is surrounded by compacted qi energy.

Originally posted by TurkeyBurgers
Kaytagg I starred every single post of yours in this thread. Everything you said impressed me. Demanding experimental evidence is Science in the basic simplest form.

If you do not DEMAND experimental evidence then you are P.T. Barnums favorite type of person born every minute.

Thank you. I agree 100%

Shame on us for wanting evidence!

Edit to add: Here's what happens when you believe in mind over matter


[edit on 8-7-2009 by Kaytagg]

reply to post by tothetenthpower


What ever happened to Evidence for your case? Saying "I saw it" should make me believe it? Pretty thin case you are presenting.

You HAVE to realize the implications a discovery of this magnitude would have on humanity. Like I said in a thread discussing a boy who's parents say is the reincarnation of a World War 2 fighter pilot you are talking about a discovery so powerful it would be THE most important discovery in human history EVER! I mean EVER! That is NOT something I take LIGHTLY! And MOST CERTAINLY not something I will take on word of mouth!

For humanities most important scientific discovery in our entire known history YES I DO need an experiment to TEST it. It also has to be able to be replicated under laboratory conditions. Not "invisible magic energy".

Sounds a little bit too much like magical invisible Mormon plates that can only be read inside a bag by an invisible reading glass. No offense Utah.

Well, lets ask the Scientific method a few questions.

Me: "Hey Science, do you know all there is to know?"

Science: "Science is about discovering new things that we previously did not know, to presume that any level of scientific knowledge is 'All there is' is against the very purpose of science"

Me: "So, it is possible then that there are forces that science does not know about?"

Science: "Of course, after all, the force of electricity was not always known about, nor was gravity."

Me: "So it is possible that 'Chi' is a real force?"

Science: "Of course it is possible, science does not tell us what reality is, science tells us what we observe about reality is."

Me: "So, science is not all knowing?"

Science: "Science is no more all knowing than humans are."

Me: "Thank you science"

Science: "You are welcome."

-Edrick

Originally posted by Edrick
Well, lets ask the Scientific method a few questions.

Me: "Hey Science, do you know all there is to know?"

Science: "Science is about discovering new things that we previously did not know, to presume that any level of scientific knowledge is 'All there is' is against the very purpose of science"

Me: "So, it is possible then that there are forces that science does not know about?"

Science: "Of course, after all, the force of electricity was not always known about, nor was gravity."

Me: "So it is possible that 'Chi' is a real force?"

Science: "Of course it is possible, science does not tell us what reality is, science tells us what we observe about reality is."

Me: "So, science is not all knowing?"

Science: "Science is no more all knowing than humans are."

Me: "Thank you science"

Science: "You are welcome."

-Edrick

Me: Hey Science Can you create an experiment to test "Chi" and magical invisible energy?

Science: Of COURSE we can create a test! It IS testable! Unfortunately magical Chi Energy man says that his magical invisible powers disappear when we test them so they are untestable

Me: Mormonism?

Science: /Facepalm......................................

reply to post by Ignorance Denied


The link doesn't work..

Now it's working...forget that..

[edit on 8-7-2009 by OmegaPoint]

reply to post by TurkeyBurgers


You mean a discovery that important for Western Society? Just because we here are conditioned to not believe anything that our Media doesn't tell us, doesn't make it significant discovery.

The people of the East have been doing this for thousands of years and it's well documented that Eastern people have always been adept at meditations and the use of Chi.

As the above poster stated, science simply hasn't come up with a way of showing that this energy exists, that doesn't mean that it doesnt.

I can feel it flowing through me everytime I close my eyes when meditating, I can see it my mind. It doesn't take alot of practice to be able to do that either.

It's a matter of opening your perception to the idea. I'm not saying blindly believe in whatever somebody tells you, but again if you close your reality to possibilities, than what is the point of science?

We use science to understand how things work, and in this place ALL things are possible.

Hell if Jesus did exist and did all the things he did, could it have been because he was the son of God, or perhaps a Bhudist monk who had harnessed his own energy to do incredible feats?

These are all things that need to be taken into account. And remember, we are just intelligent monkeys with thumbs and forward facing eyes. That's our only real advantage other than the Frontal Cortex.

Have some faith in humanity, we aren't what they want you to believe we are, we are much more.

~Keeper

reply to post by Edrick


Chi Monk: Hey, watch me do cool things.

Magician: Hey, I can do the same things. But you have to pay for it.

Science: Ok guys, it's not that I don't believe you, it's just that I need proof, and if you claim to be able to do these things without using slight of hand or trickery, then you should submit your skills to be tested.

Chi Monk: Ohhh no no no no. I can't do that. It's too sacred.

Magician: Revealing the trick would destroy the illusion, and thus I would be out of a job!

Science: I'm afraid I can't take you seriously, then, as a giant red flag went up when you mentioned that you would not be able to perform these feats in such a fashion that I may witness them. Science, after all, is based on repeatability in a controlled environment.

Chi Monk: That's okay science, not everyone believes in you -- and those are the people I'm going after.

Magician: Science, you've been a dear friend to me. Without you, I could not do half my tricks. Thank you for that. But to reveal to you how I do my trick would ruin me financially; and besides, you already know.

Science: Then I'm afraid I shall remain neutral on the subject, until the time comes that you may let me witness your feats. Until then, I'm off to ruin these "string theorists" who think they have figured out the entire universe on paper . Excelsiorrrrrr!

Kaytagg - best of luck in your searches for truth. However, this is one area I do not believe your 'logical' processes will suffice to provide you with truth in the matter, unless you let the logic be logic with no boundaries. Entertain EVERY idea, but without becoming attached to it. No one is asking you to believe in it(well I'm not at least). All we can do is show you the door, you must be the one to walk through it.

For example: The first time you dive into a pool, or conquer some task never before done by yourself, what happens to the fear of not knowing whether or not you will succeed? It goes away. Because now, upon diving for the first time, upon success, you KNOW you can dive. Morpheus says to Neo: 'Don't think you are, KNOW you are.'

If no one ever told you that the body is just that and nothing more(no energy, chi, prana, lifeforce, elan vital, magnetism, etc. etc.), would the idea of chi be so different than the idea there is no chi?

If you grew up your whole life KNOWING that chi is real and a part of life, you would not question its existence.

Have you ever put your hand on your forehead to lull a minor headache?

What if the human body is wired?

In the mean time, I suggest researching Magnetism.

Hope this makes sense...