How I Lost My Daughter to Paradise - Jehovah's Witnesses

reply to post by Hazelnut
Wow you have been through alot.

It is my opinion that most religions are little cults and the JW's are the worse of the worse.

Starred and Flagged.

Hope things look up for you and your daughter.

I consider myself a spiritual person but not religious.

Lost one of my good friends to JW's. Am normally a very nice person but will tell them off if they come up to and knock on my door invading my privacy.

Best wishes sending good thoughts your way.

reply to post by _Phoenix_


I only ever saw a few episodes and that was sufficient .

It's sad. Jehovah Witnesses are not Christian. They ARE a cult. So is Mormonism. Any thing that adds or takes away from scripture is not following God. People that follow these are not Christian and they are not going to heaven. Pray for your daughter. True Christianity is laid out by Jesus Christ.

reply to post by Blueracer

It is very true that JWs do not cut you off becuase you are not one of Jehovah's witnesses, as long as you were never a baptised member of the cult who was disfellowshipped or disassociated yourself.

If you DA'd or were DF'd you ARE cut off.

Relatives who were never baptised are potential recruits so of course they will 'love bomb' you as long as you say nothing bad about the WatchTower.

You are correct on that point but not correct if you were baptized.

I will not give you links to the WT's share holdings in Rand Corp because, I believe that if you want to know you will search.

As my relatives, who are JW said to me when I tried to show them this informationt they said that Satan had planted it there to fool me and fool others.

When you search for something you constantly search and attempt to verify, so I hope that you will make such atempts yourself and hence, No Links.

Read books, Google, talk to people and find out. But it takes time.

I'm sure you have lovely JW relatives, but not everyone does.

I'm so sorry for what happened, but I guess after all the fingerpointing and blaming the problem still wouldnt be resolved. If you really want to get your daughter back I guess what you should do is to start thinking and stop the blaming. The deeds done, she's back in your mom's custody and the problem at hand is how to get her back.

First thing you need to do is acceptance that you failed. Stop justifying that what you did in life is right coz if it is, you wont be in this predicament. Just simply put in your head that f*%$&ng up happens to all so its just a natural occurence. You dont have to fight it but to just ACCEPT IT! It is the only way for you to move on. If its hard for you to accept that then I guess you wont be able to resolve your problem cause the problem now really lies not in your daughter but in your big bloated ego.

After that, I suggest that you tally all your resources, take control over your life again and stop being too emotional. I know its hard not to, but in order for you get her back, you should first have complete control of all your faculties. And emotions, most often than not, makes you commit mistakes all the time.

Then I guess when you think that you are now ok, then that would be the time to start planning of how to get her back. Explore all the avenues and seek good professional help. It would be a long, tiring and tedious battle but if you're prepared everything would be easy.

I think if you'd do all that, after the smoke clears, you'd definitely have your daughter back. Good luck and best wishes...

I personally know several JWs. The first two attend the same "church", though their experiences are vastly different. #1 I've known since childhood - big family, relocated to the area, very active in the "church" - lived by the "rules"- kids never could participate in holiday parties, no birthdays, etc. The kids had no friends who were JWs, and were always allowed active social lives with their friends, and all went on to marry non JWs and did not have to convert their spouses in order to remain part of the "church"
#2 A woman in her 70s, married over 50 years, 4 children, grand-kids, great-grand-kids, life-long residents of the community. She did not turn to the JWs until she was in her senior years. After one year, the "church" made her choose between her family and her eternal soul, and the soul of the "church". She tried for 3 years to convert her family - all of them refused while encouraging her to follow her own beliefs, just stop trying to convert them. When she could not get them to convert, the "church" made her choose. She chose the "church", immediately divorced her husband of over 50 years, and has had no contact with anyone who is not a member of the "church" since.
WHY such different actions/treatment/rules from the same JW church???

#3 Pretty much the same story as #2, just a different family, different circumstances, and a different "church". She contacted her son again after hearing of his divorce and his gaining sole custody of his son. She came back into his life, not trying to convert him, becoming a part of her grandson's life, taking care of him while his dad worked, etc. One day, the man was served papers at work. His mother had somehow taken action without him knowing it, gaining custody of his son. The story is the same as yours regarding what the woman was telling the child, etc. The most he's ever been able to accomplish has been visitation - he's not even allowed to celebrate holidays with his son.

Apparently, it happens a lot, though for some unknown reason some members seem to be immune to the extremes of it. I've heard of so many stable, loving families being torn apart by the JWs. How is that doing the work of God??? They actually encourage divorce!!

My heart goes out to you - I've never had to endure all that you have, but I've gone through a messy custody case. It was the worst hell, and even though I "won", my child was the only victim in the end because of what we all had to endure. My child is grown now, very responsible, does all the right things, etc. But my child is not happy and has serious commitment issues. We are very close for the important things, but having a real relationship is next to impossible at this point with either parent.

You can't change past decisions. It does no good to beat yourself up over them. Most of life's important lessons are painful ones.

The only advice I can give is to be there for your child, make sure your child knows you are there for her, talk to your child about what happened in the past on YOUR end, how you felt, why you took the actions you did, etc., without bringing your mother into it. Have as little contact with your mother as possible, and have some agreed upon ground rules for when contact can't be avoided.

Have you ever gone to talk to the JWs to discuss any of this with them? I would. But that is just how I do things.

reply to post by serendipitynow


After the drama between my mother and my daughter and me, my youngest sister was mom's next victim. My sister was married to her husband of almost twelve years when mom focused on saving her and her baby son from God's wrath.

My sister began studying with the JW's against her husband's wishes. My mother, who had never paid much attention to her in her life suddenly was my sister's best friend. My sister ate it up and followed along. She had her ups and downs with the religion, didn't really understand it all but went along to make my mother happy.

After about 2 years, my sister got baptized. Then she was guilted into divorcing her husband (by my mother and the Sun Valley Congregation). My mother now dedicated herself to saving my nephew like she had done with my daughter. I didn't know until 10 years later because after our debacle, I stayed away from everyone in my family.

Now, my sister is reunited with her ex-husband, the father of her two children who is not a JW. Her son is turning sixteen this year and still trapped in the Witness ideology while his mother is not. Since my mother died almost two years ago, my sister lost interest in the religion. The only reason she still goes to meetings is for her son who is worried about his mother and the repercussions of her actions.

Well, she found out last week that her congregation is going to disfellowhip her for living with the father of her children! Putting my nephew in harms way psychologically. She told her son that if they disfellowship her, he does not have to shun his own mother.

The guilt trip this religion puts on our young people is unforgivable and should be exposed. The guilt and fear of this religion is IMHO satanic.

You gave your kids away, after having children with someone who you did not wish to be their father.

It sounds to me like you've gotten exactly what you asked for- someone else to take over your responsibilities... you know... the ones you didn't take the time to consider before reproducing like an animal.

[edit on 6-7-2009 by ninecrimes]

My heart goes out to the original poster, and I've had similar issues (not with a birth child of mine, but involving my wife) with the state agencies that purport to protect children by ripping them away from their natural parents with little to no actual grounds to do so.

Amazing, that in any kind of criminal case, the burden of proof is on the state, but with children, they don't need hardly anything to remove a child.

The most I can offer is that you can hope that some day (and hopefully sooner rather than later), that your daughter will come to realize the silliness of it all, and make the decision to re-establish the relationship. Life is too short for hate or even dislike, when it comes to family.

I'm still hoping my own brother realizes that at some point... It tears my mother up that he basically shuns me (as he's pretty much a snob and dislikes my wife, so by proxy, me). Mom knows the ball's in his court and that I want nothing more than to forgive and forget the actions he's taken, but alas, up to him.

I'll never understand how one family member can abandon another, whether it's religion or some other excuse. Eventually, I have to hope that all of us have the capacity to get past such things, and eventually reconcile.

Originally posted by Donnie Darko

Originally posted by mattifikation
You should have taken out a life insurance policy on your worthless mother and another on your scumbag husband, and then staged a little accident.

Honestly, the problem with America is that the justice system protects the rich, not the innocent.

Agree totally on the justice system, disagree on the murder suggestion. That would make her worse than both of them and she is not!

Allow me to clarify.

I don't think it's okay to just murder any old person that crosses you wrong. But in defense of one's own children, against abuse and kidnapping, yeah. When the justice system fails and all other paths are exhausted, I think there are certain things that are absolutely worth killing for.

Of course, that path isn't for everybody. I'm not saying it is. I'm just saying that I wouldn't find fault with anybody who used lethal force to protect their family from people who would do them harm.

Originally posted by eMachine

I'm astonished that you would give that woman custody of your own kids for any reason. My parents are pretty "normal", but I would never give them custody of my kids, mostly because my mom would have them vaccinated, send them to public school, give them soda, and let them watch Sponge Bob...

I was vaccinated. I went to public school, drank soda and watched all kinds of senseless garbage on TV while I was growing up. I won't go any further, but that first paragraph comes off as a bit offensive. I loved how you put the word normal in quotes.

BoT (Back on topic):

Without placing judgement upon anybody, I feel the OP made the correct decision by joining the military and leaving her mother in custody. Why? Because she has made it extremely evident that she only wanted the best for her child. Therefore, the choice she made was obviously in the best interest OF her child, regardless of how she and/or anybody feels about it now. As another poster stated: what's done is done. The only relevence left is her current relations with her mother and daughter.

As I have no expirience with such unfortunate circumstances, I'm afraid I have no advice to offer. Though I do wish the best for you and your family, Hazel. Communication will be key! Good fortune.


Cheers,
Strype




[edit on 6-7-2009 by Strype]

Originally posted by cropmuncher
reply to post by Hazelnut

 

That is a really sad story & im so sorry for you.
I hope you find the strength to carry on your fight and that one day your daughter will see for herself that she has been brain washed by your mother & that nasty religion.

Positive thoughts for you

Hazelnut. See the above comment and hold out hope. My own JW experience (the short version)

Both sets of grandparents (mother and fathers side) had huge families. I have 50+ cousins, just to give you the scope. When I was 2 years old (1972) my mother was contacted by the JWs. She had the perfect personality type for a speedy conversion. It would be a story in itself how being raised a JW ruined my childhood..but perhaps I'll post it in a different thread.

My mother became not just a JW, but one of their most relentless, convincing recruiters. Within a decade she had a large number of my extended family converted. This took a close knit loving italian family and tore it assunder.

A lot of us had the sneaky suspicion that this just wasnt another religion, but a brilliant organization designed to recruit and RETAIN members. They design their ranking and subjection system almost IDENTICAL to the Nazi youth groups. They cut you off from the "worldy" folks who are destined to be killed by god at Armegeddon (the date of which they keep pushing back) They make it so when you try to leave, your cut off from your JW family members and friends. SO you are alone in the world. Many that break free come back out of lonliness or because they lack the ability to function in the real world.

Around 1985 one of my uncles decided to leave. He only joined in the first place to marry a JW girl. He wrote an offcial letter declaring he was no longer a JW. Now, this was my favorite uncle, and he was one of the most cherished among our huge family. He called me on the phone to tell me he left and he encouraged me to be strong so one day I could escape this cult as well. Of course, I was banned by the JWs from talking to him under threat of being "disfellowshipped" myself. But the seed was planted.

In 1988, I left also. It broke my mothers heart. She vowed to never speak with me again. My brothers and sister could also not speak with me.
Most of my cousins, aunts, uncles and even one grandmother could not speak with me. It just didnt sit right. Why would a god that loved people (which I dont believe anyhow) command his followers to ignore their flesh and blood.

Now, here is the semi happy ending:

One by one or two by two, my JW family members broke free from the cult. It took almost took more decades after my uncle leaving and they arent all out, but 90% of them are. We are now the big happy family we once were.

So please hold out hope. Your daughter is in the clutches of one of the most powerful brainwashing cults that exist. She is growing up slowly. One day she too may see the light. What YOU must do is this:

Show by example that non JWs are good people. Stay in contact with her. Send her a letter only telling her you love her. No pressure. Just show her love. Keep it simple. If your love is sincere, and there really is a god who cares, he will show her the way out of this cult. It may take time, but never give up. It sometimes takes decades before people get the courage to escape.

I wish you all the best

I want to deeply thank everyone who posted a reply on this thread. Your thoughts and feelings are important to me and maybe to someone else who desperately needs to know that despite the circumstances that lead them to a similar situation, there are compassionate people out there who do not judge and condemn heartlessly.

I also want to clarify the fact that the OP took place between 1982 and 1996.

My daughter is now 27 years old with 2 children of her own. She was 13 when the situation reached it climax. My second daughter was 10. She also has two children now.

I gave up my rights and responsibilities to my daughters after they accused my husband of sexual molestation. Each of them (abetted by my mother and her cronies) lied to the court and children's services in another state than the one we lived in. Two years prior (1994) I had been awarded full custody of both of my daughters after a very long, painful battle that I'm still paying for.

The assault on me and my children had to end and I was the only one who could end it. Because I loved them so very much, I could not bear to have them put on a witness stand in a sexual molestation court, knowing that they were lying.

They were in the middle of a disaster and there were no options. My husband (father of my third and fourth children) was devastated, investigated and harrassed because of these false allegations. He was forced to move out of our house because of the "investigation".

My daughters were already in the emergency custody of their father's by court order pending investigation and possible litigation. I wanted the nightmare to end. I could not afford another two year court battle either emotionally or financially. The choice I made to sign them over was the hardest, most painful thing I've ever done in my life.

My husband divorced me and took my 2 youngest children. He had the support of his family. I had no one. I lost all of my children because of the circumstances outlined in the OP.

Now. My daughters and I live in different states. My second daughter is married with two children and doing fine. My oldest daughter is not doing very well at all. Her two children are living with her step-mother, the one that helped her lie about me so that she could escape both me and my mother.

The situation is difficult to explain fully and very emotional for me still.

I lived alone for 8 years, working my self half to death trying to get ahead so that I would be ready when my daughter's wanted to be with me again. I hoped and prayed for 8 years that they were alright, knowing that their lives were already screwed up and that there was nothing I could do to change it or stop it.

When they did finally contact me, we talked long and tried to understand what had happened. None of the three of us blamed anyone except ourselves. Even my daughters thought the whole thing was their fault.

My second daughter came to live with me in 2003. She had a son and was pregnant with her second. She was 17. I did everything I could to help her straighten out her life. Today, she would tell you all, that her mother is the strongest person she has ever known and that anyone who would judge her mother doesn't know what they are talking about.

You see, she told me how she was manipulated in to lying. They lured her with promises of gifts and attention and told her (at 10 years old) that her mother never wanted her to begin with and that I would be glad to be rid of her. So it wasn't so hard to get her to lie. My daughter was so confused and hurt that she started telling people that her mother died.

I did everything I could to be a good parent. But when someone is manipulating and coercing the children, no one can come out ahead - especially the children.

Originally posted by ninecrimes
You gave your kids away, after having children with someone who you did not wish to be their father.

It sounds to me like you've gotten exactly what you asked for- someone else to take over your responsibilities... you know... the ones you didn't take the time to consider before reproducing like an animal.

[edit on 6-7-2009 by ninecrimes]

Your hatefullness will come back to you. I am unaffected by your judgment of me. But I do feel sorry for people who are locked inside impossible beliefs. Maybe my compassion for you will help you understand that you are only hurting yourself with your judgments on others whom you have no personal knowledge of.

Thank you for sharing all this with us. It is a lesson for us all.

As an aside: There are some hateful people on here. Mean-spirited.
I know you know better than to let hateful words in. You've been hurt enough, now, enough is enough.

My thoughts are that anybody that is hateful to me, is just a hateful person, and is mean to everybody, not just me. I know you know that.

But thank you for bringing us full circle. I'm happy that things have improved.

My sympathies on your hardships and best of luck in the future.


Having seen similar issues, they are never easy to deal with.

Originally posted by Hazelnut

Originally posted by ninecrimes
You gave your kids away, after having children with someone who you did not wish to be their father.

It sounds to me like you've gotten exactly what you asked for- someone else to take over your responsibilities... you know... the ones you didn't take the time to consider before reproducing like an animal.

[edit on 6-7-2009 by ninecrimes]

Your hatefullness will come back to you. I am unaffected by your judgment of me. But I do feel sorry for people who are locked inside impossible beliefs. Maybe my compassion for you will help you understand that you are only hurting yourself with your judgments on others whom you have no personal knowledge of.

I only hate those who inflict pain unto others. You have caused so much pain to so many people- anyone here who "relates" to you having pissed away your own life, is probably just as poor-off as you are.

We all have decisions to make in life, and not only have you made all the wrong ones- but you're trying to gain sympathy from it. If you really meant to bring good to others from your despair, you would not be here on an internet forum, but rather speaking to others like yourself about the potential pitfalls of having sex with random people and making babies that have a 0% success rate, from the very start.

Why did you have children with a man, who had no signs of being a capable parent, anyways?

The problem came long before your mother had any intervention. The problem was with your lifestyle, and now our society now has several of your failure-ridden offspring floating around within it, leeching from productive members such as myself.

Stop it with the pitty, or compassion games.. you'll get none from me, as you should not. Instead, why don't you try making something of yourself and possibly redacting the damage you've caused to all of those around you?

Originally posted by ladyinwaiting
My thoughts are that anybody that is hateful to me, is just a hateful person, and is mean to everybody, not just me. I know you know that.

Is that the type of intentionally-ignorant thinking that lets you sleep through the nights? Sounds pretty pathetic, to me.

If someone HATES you, there's probably a reason for it. Choosing to ignore is only makes you a coward- whereas anyone with any wisdom would get to the bottom of it, and potentially even GROW from the encounter.

reply to post by ninecrimes


Let me guess...You have never made a wrong choice or a bad decision that affected someone else? You have always had the love and support of a close-knit family and loving guidance throughout your childhood. You've been educated by the system and have a strong religious foundation. You have never been abandoned or suffered starvation, homelessness, physical abuse, rape or mental coersion? You have no foundation to understand what isolation is or what demonization might entail from firsthand experience.

If all of the above fits, then I'm happy for you. Not everyone has the benefit of proper upbringing.

reply to post by Hazelnut


Hi Hazel,

I'm really sorry about what has happened to you and your daughter. I don't understand how a mother could turn her grandchild against her mother! I understand what you did was to give your children a better life and I admire you for that. I don't think you are to blame for anything, you were only doing what a responsible parent would do. Your mother and her cult are responsible for brainwashing your daughter.
Stay strong sweetie, I hope you will be able to connect with your daughter and work things out.