The most violent country in Europe: Britain is also worse than South Africa and U.S.

Originally posted by kyred
reply to post by THELONIO

 

Yep. The other day in Cincinnati, Ohio, a guy was shot and killed because the other guy said he stepped on his shoe. Sheesh! And about a month ago there, a guy walked past a convenience store, saw his enemy in there and pointed his finger at him and kept walking. The enemy ran out of the store, shot the guy in the back and then walked up to him a put a bullet in his head. His defense? He pointed his finger at me in a threatening way.

Did they ever determine if the "victim" gangsta's finger was even loaded?

Guns are good for self-defense yes.

But now, let's go back ALL the way to the start of the US, where the Bill of Rights were being made.

What would have happened if the govt then decided on no "Right to bear and carry arms"?

US would be MUCH MUCH safer. And none of you would have this "gun control is bad!" mindset. Look at Singapore, for example.

But, NOW... in the REAL world and not the parallel alternate reality I proposed, guns are being used both to commit crimes and to protect people. Even if they get banned NOW, people would still have arms in their possessions, and criminals would have a large supply of arms that can be used to hurt people - WITHOUT the fear of retaliation or self-defense.

So... banning them now is pretty out of the question.

But I DO believe that guns relate to the level of violence in the country.

1 - If a person fears being shot in self-defense, he would not attack someone without thinking twice. US is safe that way, but this is due, really to the LAW. If the law that "a person who shot in self-defense is guiltless" is removed the next day, the crime rate will definitely rise.

Again, if, back in the day, the Bill of Rights had been changed, and guns were illegal THEN till NOW... violence on a whole would be less. And that is the only way to curb violence - not to counter it with MORE self-defense violence, but really through education and the like. Some Americans I know are so violent they would love to go hit someone even though that person might have a gun on him/her anyway.

2 - Gun-related crimes (GRC), then, are, quite naturally, much more widespread.

So would you want more GRC, or violence on a general whole?

[edit on 5-7-2009 by KarlG]

reply to post by nenothtu


Supports what I believe, no?

Some people are so violent they just do the most horrible, rash things like shooting and fighting just because of a FINGER POINT.

Goddarn it. You can't factor in the nutcases, cos you never seen them coming.

*

In or about 2006, there were about 60 million (actually closer to 58M, but we'll use the rounded-up number to be kind to hopolophobes) people in the UK as a whole, including Scotland.
*

In England and Wales alone — discounting Scotland — there were over 163 thousand knife crimes.
*

By the end of 2006, there were more than 300 million people in the US as a whole.
*

In the US as a whole, there were fewer than 400 thousand gun crimes.
*

In the UK, based on these numbers, there was one knife crime commited for every 374 people (rounded down).
*

In the US, based on these numbers, there was one gun crime committed for every 750 people — less than half a gun crime per 374 people (about 0.4987 gun crimes per 374 people, actually).
*

That means that, based on these statistics, you are more than twice as likely to be a victim of knife crime in the UK as you are to be a victim of gun crime in the US.

*sources*

www.telegraph.co.uk...

www.ojp.usdoj.gov...

www.homeoffice.gov.uk...

www.statistics.gov.uk...

secure.wikimedia.org...

www.disastercenter.com...

reply to post by secretagent woooman


Sadly I would have to say its the breakdwon of social and cultural invovlement.

Years ago, there was youth clubs, youth centre for young teenagers to go to, rather than hanging around the shopping centres, street corners. Because of Financial cut backs, Health + Safety, PC Brigade UK, alot of those Centres, youth club have been closed down. Alot of young teenagers nowadays have nothing to do. I suppose alot of them could take thier frustration, anger out at boxing clubs etc. But there is not even sufficient number of boxing centres for those teenagers.

Before anyone just says oh its the Chavs or the Neds, that causes all the trouble. Other ethnic group communities have the same problem withyouths inthere area also.

I know it is hard for Americans to establish the idea that the world is different to them, but is it possible not to do the old fashion "USA!" chant with pathetic patriotic "We are better than you" postings

Gun control deals with gun crime and massacres. What is difficult to understand? Are you suggesting gun control will stop all crimes? Britain has not had a school shooting since 1996 (before gun ban was introduce)

Now, we are and never have been a nation of gun fanatics in the United Kingdom; sitting at home stroking a rifle waiting for the government to come and get us. We are not that paranoid. I'm not sure if you have noticed, but there are other nations in this world *claps* with different styles of government *claps* and people are different *claps*

We are, thank Christ, not all American on this Earth.

For the record, this thread has nothing to do with gun control.

reply to post by Bunken Drum


This country though has grew up on the mentality, oh its oks togo out and assault someone, the British Justice system is that soft, we will only get an ASBO. This was the biggest mistake the Gov introduced into the Justice system.

Also this Country prefers rehabilitation to long term prison service, ven for themore dangerous criminal. Which I think is wrong. If you are given a senence, for a crime then you should do the time. Rather than having your Sentence cut for either good behaviour or rehabilitaion.

At the end of the day, nomatter what ever Governement proposes or legislates, there is always going to be violence, it is human nature, who is going tochange that? No one.

Also I know I did say compare gun crime inthe USA AND THE UK, but I should have also said, compae the crime related figures in the UK compared to say Russia or Germany. Seems this thead has turned into again another USA V UK Piss contest.

[edit on 5-7-2009 by Laurauk]

Originally posted by merkaba93

Official crime figures show the UK also has a worse rate for all types of violence than the U.S. and even South Africa - widely considered one of the world's most dangerous countries.

As a South African - I can tell you that crime levels have somewhat stabilized in this beautiful country. We have a different kind of violence here - if you are attacked for your wallet, chances are the level of violence will be very high, whereas in the UK the violence seems to be a lot of general thuggery and petty crime.

"The BMW car manufacturer now offers its own insurance to purchasers of its product in South Africa because insurance rates are simply too high as a result of the large number of carjackings"

Aaaaaaaa- that\s not true - I drive two high end BMW's with my own insurance.

Originally posted by KarlG
reply to post by nenothtu

 

Supports what I believe, no?

Some people are so violent they just do the most horrible, rash things like shooting and fighting just because of a FINGER POINT.

Goddarn it. You can't factor in the nutcases, cos you never seen them coming.

Yes it does.

Nutcases are nutcases. Some folks are just junkyard dog mean, and the only rational solution is to put them down, for the good of society. They are a danger to everyone, because as you say, you can't see them coming, and you never know when they'll go off at random.

I may seem heartless, but I have no sympathy whatsoever for either of these two fine, upstanding young citizens. We all make choices, and have to deal with the consequences.

I have, and so have they.

Originally posted by Laurauk
reply to post by merkaba93

 

Funny how they dont Compare gun deaths between the US and the UK.

Think you would see that in the US there are more gun related deaths than there is in the UK. Still there should be no guns allowed what soever in the UK.

But I do have to add, oks maybe certain parts of the UK, places are violent, but not every single city, town, village are violent. The report is misleading to say the least.

Oh and I await those who like to bash the UK coming in here and saying see Iran told you so

:lol

[edit on 4-7-2009 by Laurauk]

[edit on 4-7-2009 by Laurauk]

I spent 11 years living in the UK. Love that country. But that's not the point.

Compare "KNIFE" deaths between UK and US and you'll probably see the same numbers.

With all the criminals in the UK having guns, any MP worth their salt would support gun ownership among the populace.

Just my opinion however. . .

When our Governments continue to use shocking and awful violence as an answer to their problems, it hardly sets a good example to the rest of us. Maybe if our leaders chose peace and diplomacy over shock and awe we all might be a little calmer?

reply to post by woodwardjnr


I don't think any criminal is going to look at a peaceful attempt at their arrest and give in willingly.
Criminals are bullys.
They understand threats, they understand punishment. Hit them harder then they hit you and then you might see a positive response from those.

Originally posted by infinite
I know it is hard for Americans to establish the idea that the world is different to them, but is it possible not to do the old fashion "USA!" chant with pathetic patriotic "We are better than you" postings

Gun control deals with gun crime and massacres. What is difficult to understand? Are you suggesting gun control will stop all crimes? Britain has not had a school shooting since 1996 (before gun ban was introduce)

Now, we are and never have been a nation of gun fanatics in the United Kingdom; sitting at home stroking a rifle waiting for the government to come and get us. We are not that paranoid. I'm not sure if you have noticed, but there are other nations in this world *claps* with different styles of government *claps* and people are different *claps*

We are, thank Christ, not all American on this Earth.

For the record, this thread has nothing to do with gun control.

And I'm told I'M arrogant!

The thread deals with violence in the UK.

Some Brits tend to point the finger at the US, and how thoroughly violent we are over here, and then immediately link it to our "gun culture".

Brits don't have a gun culture, yet violence still exists there, so perhaps our gun culture over here is not the root problem.

Which leads back to a culture of violence.

As you say, "What is difficult to understand?"

Yet you still try to tweak Americans about our "paranoia" concerning our rights.

Which avoids the issue of violence in the UK completely.

To be honest, I thank Christ your not an American too.

[edit on 2009/7/5 by nenothtu]

Originally posted by mikerussellus


Compare "KNIFE" deaths between UK and US and you'll probably see the same numbers.

Yup. That comparison was made several posts back, and it shocked even me, to the point of speechlessness!

reply to post by mikerussellus


That is why MP's would not dare support any citizenhaving guns, you just need to look at the gun massacarres that have occured in the UK, as a result of individuals having guns.

But you cant control guns anyways, they just go underground, or are bought off the blackmarket.

Also Infinite to say guns have nothing to do with this topic, ir wrong, it has some part to do with this topic, as much as knifes or Baseballbats do.

[edit on 5-7-2009 by Laurauk]

reply to post by nenothtu


Yeah, sorry 'bout that. Don't mean to repeat posts but I was answering someone from page 1 .

I lived in England for years. Really liked it. My dads family is from Scotland and moved (immigrated) to Montana years ago.

I went to school there and there was much more knife violence than in American schools. Forget tv violence in the US, I saw my first stabbing when I was a kid right near Hampstead Heath.
The UK should never, could never be like the US. But they would be smart to adopt some of our "cowboy" ways.

reply to post by Laurauk


There are always going to be nut-jobs. In any country. I'm talking about the average family that is terrified to walk out of their homes at night.

In Chicago, there is a city law that says absolutely NO guns within city limits. First, it ranks highest in gun violence in the nation, second you could buy a handgun in twenty minutes (if you know the right people, I've seen it) right off the street.
The cities that have conceal-carry laws show a huge decrease in gun violence.
Criminals are cowards, regardless of their nationality. If they know they might get shot, then they will back off.

Originally posted by mikerussellus
reply to post by nenothtu

 

Yeah, sorry 'bout that. Don't mean to repeat posts but I was answering someone from page 1 .

I lived in England for years. Really liked it. My dads family is from Scotland and moved (immigrated) to Montana years ago.

I went to school there and there was much more knife violence than in American schools. Forget tv violence in the US, I saw my first stabbing when I was a kid right near Hampstead Heath.
The UK should never, could never be like the US. But they would be smart to adopt some of our "cowboy" ways.

I don't know. Our "cowboy" ways probably wouldn't play well there, it would just shift the tools they use, not the root of the problem. I don't think it's in their national character. That's not a bad thing, just an observation. I've seen 'em in the heat of battle stand just as cool as a cucumber, like they were just trying to decide on what flavor of tea for the evening, and not being shot at at all. Gives the impression of unflappability. The newer generation doesn't sound like it's embracing those qualities, though. They seem to be a bit more... excitable.

Some of my people (some of the white branches) came from Scotland too, around Ayrshire. That was several generations ago, though, so we've lost that lovely accent, and I'm stuck with my hillbilly drawl now.

While the article isn't exactly accurate the general theme is bang on.

Britain is going down the pan.

I cannot wait to leave the UK in a few years time, the chav and alcohol culture is unbearable and to top it off we are run by probably the worst government in this country's history.

No one has any pride in their country ( i hate the current mess the UK is in and its government, not the country itself), we are banned from patriotic celebrations due to overdone political correctness.

The only good thing is football

Originally posted by Nova


I've lived in two large towns and two cities (one being London) and I've never met anyone who's been victim of a violent crime, I've never known anyone that has owned a gun - hell, now that I come to think about it, I've never actually SEEN a gun in the UK.

I also never seen a gun, except on cops.
But I have overheard some college kids talking about guns, their friends gun etc while I was in class lol.

I'm suprised you never met anyone who had been a victim of "any" violent crime? Maybe they didn't mention it, not really a topic people talk about anyway.

I think most people I know have been a victim of some sort of crime, maybe not violent crimes, A lot of my friends when I was in college got robbed at knife point or attacked by somebody at some point. Even I have been a victim of violent crime when I denied to give my phone to a couple of big thugs, and ended up getting attacked and having to fight both of them haha.

Not to mention all the things that happened while I was growing up, the fights, getting group attacked etc Hearing somebody in my school stabbed someone, or hearing somebody got shot down the street etc.

I do live in a pretty bad area, but I think it was a LOT worse a few years back, it's actually a lot better around here lately, I think more money and care and a lot of changes has been given to this place, huge difference thank god.

Also buses are much better now, the bus I used to take from school was a nightmare!!!! People would start fights, shout, star fights again, bus driver would refuse to drive, crowded chaos etc etc
Now that there are cameras on buses, this crap doesn't happen as much anymore!
Cameras do work in some cases

I think age matters a lot with this topic, your more likely to be a vicitim the younger you are. Because of the places you go, the people you hang around with, or simply a lot of people like to target younger people because the criminal is the same age.



[edit on 5-7-2009 by _Phoenix_]