It's Time For America To Dump Israel !!

That's right!! It's time we dumped the state of Israel and let the chips fall where they may.

It's time for America to wake up.

Israel is the single biggest threat to the security of the world.

www.rense.com...

Check out the above address and find out why we have to save ourselves from the Zionists.

God save the poor Palestinian people.




[Edited on 5-5-2004 by Eljay]

[Edited on 5-5-2004 by Seekerof]

[Edited on 6-5-2004 by John bull 1]

So, you state emphatically that we should disavow a long-term ally based on a single source which is...

rense.com?

Hello?

There are hundreds of reports both on and off the Internet that tell the true story of Israel.

The Israeli Zionists are the real terrorists!!!

You'd have a much better argument if you left "rense" out of it. You can't take anything on there for real.

Actually, my problem with Isreal isn't that they are there, it's that they are not able to survive without US help. I for one am sick of handouts being given to every country in the world. They have spied on the US and given our weapons to the enemy. I have a bigger problem with that then them having a tiny strip of land over in the Middle East.

The document in itself isn't too bad. It's got notable and cross-referenceable sources of information, too.

honestly, I don't like rense because he doesnt let his guests speak and he doesn't always listen to them which can be annoying in terms of conversational flow.

Eljay does have a point however... Israel's covert objective is to destabilize the idea of international peace, and it has been doing that quite well. The settlements that Sharon has been promoting are also an excellent addition to the pile of instability in the region

Originally posted by American Mad Man
You'd have a much better argument if you left "rense" out of it. You can't take anything on there for real.

Actually, my problem with Isreal isn't that they are there, it's that they are not able to survive without US help. I for one am sick of handouts being given to every country in the world. They have spied on the US and given our weapons to the enemy. I have a bigger problem with that then them having a tiny strip of land over in the Middle East.

I love you, man. that is so accurate and I am amazed to see this coming from a conservative source such as yourself. it PAYS to have an open mind, does it not?

what kind of an ally has a public leader who says they are in control of the US and demonstrates this by defying peace plans and alternatives that are sanctioned by the very same government that has been arming and supplying the Israelis since 1947(or 8... can't remember now)?

and guess who pays for a lot of Israel's shortfalls and expenses? yeah, the same money that could be going to educating children better and pulling kids off gangs goes straight to the zionist cash cow

Originally posted by Eljay
There are hundreds of reports both on and off the Internet that tell the true story of Israel.

The Israeli Zionists are the real terrorists!!!

Well Eljay -- until you said "Zionists", you had my support. You have to have "clean hands" to make a convincing argument! You don't, The Israelis don't and the Palestinians don't. Because you're all "dirty", you've got to fight this one out on your own!!

Israel's covert objective .....

Hmmm, let me think here, there are always two sides to a story, correct?
If so, why is that its always Israel 'doing' and no mention whatsoever about the Palestinian's 'doing' and their "covert objective(s)"?

Other than a few relatively obscure articles, rense.com is bunk. And any other site that you read dealing with or mentioning Zionists is 6-7 times out of 10, an anti-Israel propaganda site.



seekerof

"Zionism" is NOT a dirty word unless some one who is filled with animosity toward the Jewish people use it as such.

Zionists are a group of Jews who are committed to a Jewish Homeland....damn, we're in a tight spot!

Get real.

I agree with Eljay it is abhorrent how Israel treats Palestinians,they treat them as badly as the Jews were treated by the Nazis-I am not anti-Jewish but something has to be done about Israel's role as international troublemakers

Originally posted by Seekerof

Israel's covert objective .....

Hmmm, let me think here, there are always two sides to a story, correct?
If so, why is that its always Israel 'doing' and no mention whatsoever about the Palestinian's 'doing' and their "covert objective(s)"?

Other than a few relatively obscure articles, rense.com is bunk. And any other site that you read dealing with or mentioning Zionists is 6-7 times out of 10, an anti-Israel propaganda site.

seekerof

fair enough seekerof, and you do have a good point. It's possible that elements within the PLO have been playing ball as an instigator in the conflict, as well. As far as I know, I am not aware of any covert agendas in terms of Palestinians. So if you have something, please do share. To be honest, however, I have been suspicious of Arafat for quite some time.

What I do know for a fact is how the state was created in the 1940's and I partially documented this here. Admittedly, I have some more work to do. The term zionist isn't in itself propaganda because it has it's own origin. Zionists are a group of people who started a movement in Nazi Germany that went hand in hand with Hitler's 'get rid of them all' agenda. I use Zionists because it accurately describes the people who were trying to get things going in terms of the Israeli/Palestinian conflict. Zionists were literally shipping these innocent refugees into what they thought would be a safe haven from persecution. Obviously, it was nothing of the sort, and that was part of the Israeli covert agenda that I speak of.

I dont see yalls problem with isreal. They are only tryin to survive. One reason we should support them is because there the only democracy in the land thats fillled with corrupt kings and dictators. Yes isreal has done somem slimey things but look what has been done to them in the last century or 1000 years. Even tho they are underhanded they are still a close ally. And also for the fact that every oen who has ever fought isreal has be defeated either directly or on down the road.I mean from a religious perspective i would screw with em.

You know, I keep hearing those drummings about the Jews and Nazis and how they were hand-in-hand.....as a limited researcher myself, may I correctly mention and ask if you have ever heard of this 'gentleman': Grand Mufti, Haj Muhammed Amin al-Husseini?


Here's a thought...like I modestly mentioned above...every story has two sides. Care to 'research' this individual and how he is related and affiliated with Mr. Arafat?



seekerof

[Edited on 5-5-2004 by Seekerof]

Originally posted by Valhall
"Zionism" is NOT a dirty word unless some one who is filled with animosity toward the Jewish people use it as such.

Zionists are a group of Jews who are committed to a Jewish Homeland....damn, we're in a tight spot!

Get real.

Contrary to popular thought, zionists are not Jewish people, not even by default. Some members of the movement claimed to be of that faith, but I personally do not believe their motives were truly based on Judaic principles.

I have spoken to some Jewish friends of mine, and they agree with me on the idea that relating Zionists to Jewish people is offensive, in and of itself. Just FYI

[Edited on 5/5/2004 by AlnilamOmega]

Originally posted by Seekerof
You know, I keep hearing those drummings about the Jews and Nazis and how they were hand-in-hand.....as a limited researcher myself, may I correctly mention and ask if you have ever heard of this 'gentleman': Grand Mufti, Haj Muhammed Amin al-Husseini?


Here's a thought...like I modestly mentioned above...every story has two sides. Care to 'research' this individual and how he is related and affiliated with Mr. Arafat?



seekerof

Most definitely , yes. I am very interested in learning about this. I always like finding out how two people work together for a common purpose; whether its a devious one or benevolent. Thanks, Seekerof. This perspective should be most enlightening.

[Edited on 5/5/2004 by AlnilamOmega]

Oh yeah good idea

Just what america needs right now, to have a western country in the middle east overrun and its citizens masacred. Good thinking. I am sure you would have a million arabs on your side over this but it doesn't make it a good idea. Nor does using Rense as a basis for your arguments.

Originally posted by Eljay
That's right!! It's time we dumped the state of Israel and let the chips fall where they may.

It's time for America to wake up.



[Edited on 5-5-2004 by Eljay]

[Edited on 5-5-2004 by Seekerof]

The best reason for us not breaking ties with Israel is the fact that we are the ones who have continually kept Israel from eradicating their neighbors. If not for us, Israel would have wiped out the Palestinians already and who knows who else. In any case things would be MUCH worse over there if we cut Israel loose.

Originally posted by imhotep
I agree with Eljay it is abhorrent how Israel treats Palestinians,they treat them as badly as the Jews were treated by the Nazis-I am not anti-Jewish but something has to be done about Israel's role as international troublemakers

While I do not like the bulldoze tactics and such of Isreal, you have to remember - they are getting terrorist attacks on a weekly rate. This is done simply because they (Isrealis) are there. And, IMHO, they have every right to be. The fact is, that when you are constantly being attacked by a single ethnic/religious group, a country will take action to protect the rest of the country. If you don't believe me, watch what happens in Europe in the next 10 or so years.

BTW AlnilamOmega, thanks for the props

Originally posted by Eljay
Israel is the single biggest threat to the security of the world.

That is true, if they were unfriendly with the world.

Originally posted by Eljay
There are hundreds of reports both on and off the Internet that tell the true story of Israel.

Yes, and there are how many thousands of reports that contradict those?

Israel is capable of living peacefully, as long as noone attacks them. Israel is merely practicing self-defense against its numerous surrounding enemies.

Nobody has so far mentioned Jewish settlers, surely this problem has to be resolved -It's like a cat living in a dog - home . I can't understand why anybody could be so provocative as to live in an armed fort overlooking Palestinians .The only way forward is for Israel to elect a less extreme prime minister (one who doesn't assasinate his political opponents)