Britain has 85 sharia courts: The astonishing spread of the Islamic justice behind closed doors

Originally posted by TruthxIsxInxThexMist
Exactly my point you numnut!!!

Dont call me a numnut mr baloonhead.



And that was NOT your point btw.. However I will not take you up on it. as you are a wee tad feeble in the logic department..

Re-read your post then reconsider... crikey...



[edit on 30/6/2009 by badw0lf]

reply to post by badw0lf


You are saying that people who reside in one country should abide by that country's laws

I am also saying the same thing just in a different way

Originally posted by TruthxIsxInxThexMist
reply to post by badw0lf

 

You are saying that people who reside in one country should abide by that country's laws

I am also saying the same thing just in a different way

You made your point by stating the "What if we did.." which falls over if the "WE" are a better caliber of person. WE are open and honest and tolerant - that is our greatness and our demise. IMO

I hold the standards of the people I live with, given our luxuries, to be a far cry better than those who do dwell in other nations. They can do what they want there. So there is no "What if me and barney went to iran, coh, theyd lock us up, the wally buggers!!" as an argument towards this concept.

It falls over and breaks a leg and is lame etc etc...


Edit to add, I do agree with you however, with your last post. 100% ! perhaps words get in the way.. still, indeed you are right!



[edit on 30/6/2009 by badw0lf]

reply to post by colloredbrothers

-They infiltrate our schools and don't talk the language of the country they (invaded) they are very hostile against native's and are self proclaimed enemys of the west (and indeed they are).

-Once a school begins to have a large amount of muslims rules start to change drasticly. ie, litle muslim boys terrorize litle girls for not wearing the robe. You have litle muslim boys calling adult woman prostitutes because where they come from the woman is inferior.

Great post, you really nailed the situation here, great observation.

Here in the U.S., the civil rights movement as created a similar situation. What started out as a good idea has been turned into a weapon against the people. Ghettos were created by the banking system which controls who is allowed to buy what property, by the ability to control who gets to borrow money. The violence and the crime in these ghetto neighborhoods, and the gangs they created that spread throughout the cities turned public sentiment towards the creation of the police state, which has slowly taken control.

Now, if you are a part of the national majority, and wind up living in poverty in a neighborhood where the minority is the majority, when you send your kids to school, you are sending them into a nightmarish environment where fifth graders body slam kindergartners, and the schools do nothing about it.

Reverse discrimination becomes institutionalized, and it is bad for everyone. This is the biggest reason why the U.S. has become so politically polar. Liberal organizations which are supposed to defend the rights of the common man, have taken up the banner of minority rights, and have literally chosen to actively discriminate against the perceived majority, white males. Conservatives gladly step in to start supporting white males who are literally being demonized by the party that used to stand for individual rights, and next thing you know, we got a GW for POTUS.

The bottom line is that being a minority should not be an excuse to commit crime. Current liberal ideology wants to pretend that it is an acceptable excuse, and this thinking is so wrong on so many levels, it is pathetic. This thinking has put our cultural advancement in reverse.

It looks like the PTB are looking to do to Europe what has been so successfully implemented in the U.S. in creating a police state, using Muslim crime and Muslim ghetto to create the same environment that has led the U.S. to its current mess.

The only realistic way to stop this, and undo what has been done in the U.S., is to end this whole poverty/minority excuse for the committing of crimes has to be stopped. Reverse discrimination needs to be ended, governments need to start protecting the rights of the majority as well as the minority.

Fifth graders who body slam kindergartners need to be separated from the student body immediately, and put into a far stricter environment that teaches them that there are consequences for their actions, how to respect others, and hopefully will succeed in preventing them from becoming future murderers or rapists who spend their lives in prison.

Muslim school boys who terrorize school girls need to be separated, and dealt with. Bring their parents into the school, tell dad that if his son doesn't change his attitude towards women, they may be deported if they are immigrants, and at the very least, the boy will be separated from the general population where he will be taught respect for other cultures, and for women. While they are at it they should demand to interview the wife separately, to make sure there isn't an abusive environment at the home. They should also look at which religious leader this guy goes to. If you have a group of trouble makers whose fathers all meet with the same religious leader, then you have a mob boss.

If this type of cultural or racial conflict is allowed to be used against the people, then we will all lose our freedoms. The religious nut cases and the greedy power mongers will win.

reply to post by PrisonerOfSociety


another fast post.

i replyed like that as this has already been done to death here ... im sure theirs another long post about shia law in britain.. fact is it will not effect anyone unless they wish it, and as i believe this is only for civil actions, not criminal affairs... the courts have been given duristictioin to make decisions , for people who want to settle disputes according to their own religious beliefs.. and tbh thats pretty fair. the reason storys like this are published is to cause bad feelings between sections of the community.. why? because that stuff sells ! and the more it sells the more they want to read about it.

reply to post by boaby_phet

fact is it will not effect anyone unless they wish it,

and tbh thats pretty fair.

Wish?

Now there's a word for you.

Wished or forced down their throat?

the reason storys like this are published is to cause bad feelings between sections of the community.. why?

Nope, ain't buying it.

Originally posted by neformore

Arbitration Act 1996

1 General principles

The provisions of this Part are founded on the following principles, and shall be construed accordingly—

(a) the object of arbitration is to obtain the fair resolution of disputes by an impartial tribunal without unnecessary delay or expense;

(b) the parties should be free to agree how their disputes are resolved, subject only to such safeguards as are necessary in the public interest;

(c) in matters governed by this Part the court should not intervene except as provided by this Part.

This is the legislation the idea is based around.

And what the bold is saying is that, where a decision is not in the public interest - ie contrary to British Law - then the "court" can interevene.

And for completenesses sake

105 Meaning of “the court”: jurisdiction of High Court and county court

(1) In this Act “the court” means the High Court or a county court, subject to the following provisions.

(2) The Lord Chancellor may by order make provision—

(a) allocating proceedings under this Act to the High Court or to county courts; or

(b) specifying proceedings under this Act which may be commenced or taken only in the High Court or in a county court.

People just seem to want to stigmatise this, and scream that its about "sharia and dem muslims" but in actual fact anyone in the UK with a dispute can follow these procedures - and if you've ever wondered why professional sports people such as footballers can get away with acting like common thugs when they are at work without being arrested for GBH all the time, its because the legal system defers to the FA in such matters as an arbitary body recognised as the lead in its field in order to punish the players involved unless the CPS and the Police see fit to prosecute

When a criminal action takes place, the established British Law always takes precedence.

I realise that I'm probably blowing smoke in the wind trying to explain this, but right now there are a whole rack of threads from people trying to deny the holocaust on ATS, and blaming the jews for all the worlds evils and what people don't understand is that its the kind of hysteria, xenophobia and lack of understanding that we're seeing in threads like this that caused an event like the holocaust to happen in the first place.


[edit on 30/6/09 by neformore]

Neformore I'm sad to say that on threads like these you are wasting your breath. At least four other posters have set out the facts, as did the original article. But no, we are all going to be assimilated/murdered in our beds/obliged to wear funny clothes by Muslims who are flouting English law and replacing our legal system. Trying to have a factual debate on this site is becoming as rewarding as shouting down a coal mine.

My input is as factual as I can put it.

Whether the Muslims in this country were born here or came here after seeking political asylum or emigrating from their homelands, they chose the United Kingdom in which to settle.

Having chosen the UK to live in, one could be forgiven for their not knowing that the UK is a predominantly Christian country and that English is the language spoken by the inhabitants of these islands.

One could also expect these people to merge with or blend in to our society, live by our Acts of Parliament and in peace, under our Laws, both Statutary and Parliamentary.

One could also be forgiven in thinking that those who choose to settle in the United Kingdom, would be capable of understanding the Queen's English, let alone speak it.

I for one, do not have a problem with Muslims worshiping their God, Allah and His messenger the Prophet Muhammad, Blessings & Peace be upon him.

Nor do I have a problem with Muslims wishing to build and gilde their Mosques - after all, we Christians have built churches and cathedrals.

However, in my opinion, where this starts to go wrong is that there appears to be no level playing field.

Let's take Saudi Arabia as an example. Saudi Arabia is the home of Islam and millions of Muslims trek to Mecca during the Hage [?].

No Christian churches are allowed. The open practice of Christianity is punishable by death.

Egypt has between 7 and 10 million Christians.

So in order to buid a Christian church, the President of the country must sign a resolution to that effect. Needless to say, none are built.

Turkey is a much loved friend of NATO, albeit a reluctant one. Their stance on Christians and their churches are quite differant:

Apart from lacking legal recognition, in fact, these minorities are prevented from constructing, and even from restoring, their places of worship, from possessing buildings and land, and from opening schools. Christians are forbidden from taking up some offices and professions, particularly in the military.

Algeria also has, according to the Christian sources, some 70,000 souls, though the figure is hotly disputed by the Algerians. Their take on all matters Christian is :

Since 2006, Algeria requires every existing church to apply for a permit. So far, 25 churches have been denied the permit and ordered to shut down. No new churches have been permitted.

Pakistan is one of the most militant of Muslim countries where the death penalty is allowed for those who convert to Christianity.

Christian are under constant pressure to convert to Islam or die. Gang-rapes of Christian girls are common as is the arrest of all Christians for blasphemy. Young Christian women are sometimes kidnapped and forcibly converted to Islam, married, and then raped in an attempt to stamp out Christianity by Islamic extremist (a practice in Egypt, also).

In a so called moderate country like Indonesia, nothing could be further from the truth:

It is still very difficult to get a permit to build churches, so much so that many religious groups have had to practice their faith illegally. This in turn has provided Islamic extremists with excuses to carry out violent attacks against home churches.

Iran used to have the largest Christians population openly worshipping, where churches were permitted to be built.

As we can see on our tv screens almost daily, the recent election results have not gone down well.

One of the reasons for the apparent backlash against the government, is the modern youth movement who are sick and tired of being ruled by people they consider to be mad mullahs!

Indeed, many of the youngsters have secretly converted to Christianity, an offense punishable by death.

Several Christian leaders, mostly converts from Islamic backgrounds, have been executed or assassinated. The deaths which occurred in 1994 are particularly renowned and include Rev. Hussein Soodman, Mehdi Dibaj and Bishop Haik.

No new churches have been constructed in years, although a few which were confiscated by the Government have been repaired for tourists.

There you have it. These countries are the largest in the Muslim world. The remarkable tolerance of Muslims is only matched by their hypocrisy.

It is high time those who govern this country, start applying the law without any grace or favour to those who choose to live here.

reply to post by fritz

Er, yes wouldn't argue with those facts. I'm just not sure what it all has to do with the Arbitration act of 1966?

I'm still waiting for a good argument as to why the indigenous British population are not allowed to say "No" to Islam in general. It's our country, we're a democratic society, why should we not be allowed, assuming the majority agree, to just turn around and point-blank refuse, like the aforementioned Muslim countries do to Christianity?

I honestly believe having 2 types of court systems is asking for a situation to escalate. Once more court systems are placed, it would be kind of hard shutting them down. The more widespread it is the more backlash UK courts, government and people will have regarding laws hated by Muslim people running these.

These Sharia courts should be banned and driven out of the UK for your own good. Not only for the country but for it's people. What would happen if the Muslim population out weigh's the regular UK population? Perhaps a takeover.

reply to post by Foppezao You make some good points, but Wilders? If he is not a racist idiot, he will do instead until one comes along. We've got our own plonkers over here; we dont need to import any.

reply to post by fritz


Great post fritz.... just goes to show exactly what these people are upto.... slowly they have been building their mosques, courts & having loads of kids and it's all been done under Labour over the last 10 or so years... and what do Labour do? They continue to let this happen.... they either don't see it happening or they don't want to see it happening..... in either case it's creating seperation not integration!!!

A video which may or may not entertain you:



[edit on 30-6-2009 by TruthxIsxInxThexMist]

reply to post by poet1b

Clearly, these clerics are going to hold their own courts, whether it is legal or not, and has probably been going on for awhile now.

Exactly! It's pointless to legislate against something that is cultural. Has law stopped rastas smoking weed? Did law stop scots from wearing tartan? Er... no. To help muslim women get out from under shari'ah, we need to target their abuse. Same as with forced marriage & female genital mutilation: old bill & social services are fighting against such.
But uk law is no paragon of virtue either, as any poor person who has stood before it can attest. If this is "the thin end of the wedge", let it lead to further devolution & a democritisation of law. After all, the only people who know what's what in a community are those that live in it. It remains to simply (ha!) help muslim women become empowered members of their community.
I'm curious to know if anyone here believes that less than 1/10th of the uk population could, even if they were of 1 mind, challenge the legal status quo? Ie bring about widespread implementation of shari'ah? I refer you to cannabis. The majority have smoked it, a significant minority do so regularly & far more than 1/10th want it legalised. The govt are backpeddling again... It's still not even officially decriminalised.
Also, I live in a place that is about 50/50 students renting & muslim families. They're good neighbours. We have the usual inner-city burglary & car theft, but we dont have any street violence or robbery.

reply to post by poet1b & now you've shot yourself in the foot. UK "ghettos" are populated as much by "white" people (anglo-saxon or wider european) & Afro-Caribbeans as by muslims from a variety of ethnic origins. There is no comparison to the USA, because we do not have the same 'armed camp' mentality. Simply because we will not allow mass gun ownership.
I realise its a difficult concept, but disarmed people have little choice but to get along, whereas an armed populace is scared & all too willing to fight. We do have a rising violence problem, but its nothing to do with islam; the perps are as likely to come from any ethnic background as another. What they share is being poor. But a great many UK muslims are doing very well, its really only the influx of East African muslims that are poor & from what I've seen of young Somalians, they're about as interested in shari'ah as poor British kids are in UK law: ie not much.

Britian is a scary place indeed. I serouisly cannot blame the support for the far right groups like the BNP even if there ideas are stupid. If nothing is done in the next 25 years the country will have been completely overrun. Britian is a wonderful example of what out of control political correctness can do to a nation.


The streets of the once great city of london are overrun with chavs and vagrants. I couldnt believe it when i visited I wasnt expecting. There is hope in scotland tho.

seems to me half the people on here are running away from there self.

why? well lets have a look shall we..

Muslims - read a crappy book "no offence"
Christans - Read a crappy book "no offence"
blah blah

you get the jist...

do you know what connects all idiots who pray to god?

asking why your here... WHY are humans here?? OH the bloody aliens made us ... NO GOD MADE US!! coz like it said so in the bible!!

NOOOO we are one with the universe!!!

get a grip will you who CARES?

i mean cmon this debate is old as your very existance ffs

dont you think the question should be WHAT ARE YOU GOING TO DO ABOUT IT?

look at your planet? look at this stupid thread?

no wonder your all going to die.. you cant even make up your own stupid minds that your here...

you argue about what? I TOLD YOU SO??? oh boy that helps....

get a clue and get on with the task of being REAL LIVING BEINGS

not arguing over WHY or WHO or HOW..

stupid and pointless

does a tree ask why its a tree?

totaly fkng STUPID...

reply to post by Fang


This clause here should basically eliminate any Muslim courts.

(a) the object of arbitration is to obtain the fair resolution of disputes by an impartial tribunal without unnecessary delay or expense;

Fair and impartial means that women should be given equal rights.

The question then becomes, when it is demonstrated that these Islamic courts have failed to act impartially, then what actions should be taken. What about when it is found the decisions made by the Islamic court were enforced against the will of those involved, and that people were forced by intimidation to obey the decisions of the Islamic court?

reply to post by Laurauk


I did not shoot you down i was only pointing out the words you used in relation to law..

Look i can understand you think UK law is being changed.

but the fact is

Its not?

I did state that be for.. i even told you how parliament works.

Not one law has been passed for sharia law.... NOT ONE

they work under the United kingdom laws.. and so it should be

I have no argument with this for i know the law... and i understand how it works.

If any women is being miss treated via a case that is found by the authorities they should be prosecuted like any other citizen.

People mistake law with religion.

The UK is the best place to live in my opinion... and yea i am from England but our laws are good "always room for improvement"

But at least we try to make everyone live in peace?

some people can not let go of the past is the problem...

The world is just that a world not a little island in the middle of were ever.

we fly around the world ?

no such thing as a country only LAWS what ones your willing to accept?

that is why people run away and come here... or run away from here depending on what your views are..

get what am saying?

reply to post by symmetricAvenger



You did shoot me down, implying I was racist, over a comment I made with regards to the Labour Gov.. Do do not comeback here and try and deny you did. Your comment as such is stil on this thread, unless you have removed it!

Look I am not getting back into a tit for tat argument with you, which to me sems irrelevant and pointless.

Dont you think those females invovled with the Sharia law/courts might feel that they cannot take this to the common law courts?


[edit on 1-7-2009 by Laurauk]

[edit on 1-7-2009 by Laurauk]