The Zodiac Killer: The Case Reviewed

reply to post by Sargoth

If the knife had been the one that killed that girl, don't you think they would have arrested him. And didn't Allen live in a trailer. So no basement with pipe bombs.

Have you not looked into the case yourself? Allen lived in a trailer and a house. The house was in a differnet county and they couldn't get a search warrent for the house, but they got one for his trailer. After MANY years Allen arose as a suspect again and then FINALLy the judge made a search warrent, they found pipe bombs all over his basement and I mean all over an dthe knife. After they found the knife and the bombs they went to arrest Allen for the Zodiac killings, but AMAZINGLY and coincidently allen died. The evidence is all over Allen, Kane is not the Zodiac the evidence you presented has been debunked already so stop posting it please.

EDIT: Just incase you need your memory refreshed:

1-Kane positively identified by K. Johns, the girl with the baby he abducted.

Lies. Hines made that up and Kathleen Johns never IDENTIFIED anyone.

2-Kane was positively identified by the kid at L. Berryessa who saw him in broad daylight less than 50 ft. away

Another lie. Their is NO known witness to that. Again Hines made that up.

3-Kane was positively identified by D. Ferrin's sisters as her stalker, and according to Hines was the man she saw kill some one

So was Allen and at least 10 other people. Also Hines fabrictaed evidence again! Karen stated that Lee was the murderer and not only that but Darlenes sister said the same thing. That allen killed someone. Hines is a BS lier.

4-Kane followed Donna Lass to Lake Tahoe worked in the same casino. They supposedly knew each other.

And?

5-Kane fit the description of the man police saw after Stine was killed. 5'9 160 lbs., short dark hair, and glasses. Allen was 6'2 over 200 lbs. bald, and no glasses.

False. Allen matched the report.

6- All Kane's cars fit the descriptions

False again. I have never seen the evidnece for that. Allen had access to every car and that is in the police reports. Kane's reports do not state that at all.

7-Kane's hand writing matched the letters except the one sent to Melvin Belli

Again, Allens origins marks on his right hand matched the letters and Rick Marshall matched the letters BETTER then anyone.

[edit on Jul 24th 2009 by TheMythLives]

[edit on Jul 24th 2009 by TheMythLives]

Originally posted by Sargoth
If the knife had been the one that killed that girl, don't you think they would have arrested him. And didn't Allen live in a trailer. So no basement with pipe bombs.


they did that search in 1992. 2 days after his death. that would have been an awkward arrest. and besides "matching the description" is not the same as "its definitely the knife"

1-Kane positively identified by K. Johns, the girl with the baby he abducted.

In the late 1990s, after identifying two different and dissimilar men as her abductor, Johns admitted that she couldn't even remember if she had been legally married at the time, and that her memory could not be trusted to make a case against any particular suspect.

www.trutv.com...

2-Kane was positively identified by the kid at L. Berryessa who saw him in broad daylight less than 50 ft. away.

at the lake the zodiac killed the people wearing a mask.



4-Kane followed Donna Lass to Lake Tahoe worked in the same casino. They supposedly knew each other.

most law enforcement agents dont consider donna lass to be related to the zodiac case

5-Kane fit the description of the man police saw after Stine was killed. 5'9 160 lbs., short dark hair, and glasses. Allen was 6'2 over 200 lbs. bald, and no glasses.

ill give you that

6- All Kane's cars fit the descriptions.

allen's did too as did ones he had access to

7-Kane's hand writing matched the letters except the one sent to Melvin Belli.

seriously. in your first post you asked about the obsession with allen. you have a more fanatic obsession with kane than either myth and i do about allen.

[edit on 24-7-2009 by Sargoth]

Myth, I don't get you. You said you don't know much about Kane, he's considered right up there with Allen as the top suspect. How can you not know much about him? I don't know where your getting your info. but I question it's accuracy. Hines didn't lie about the witness at Lake Berryessa. I found it myself. Look at the link. Hines had nothing to do with it. Most of my info. comes from Zodiackiller.com which was supposed to be the top site. Another source was the movie. How do you know Hines is a lier. What is your source of info. and why is it more reliable than Zodiackiller.com.
In the movie Rick Marshall wasn't the one who wrote the poster. It was the guy who ran the theater who took Greysmith into his basement, remember.
You got me on Allen's house. That wasn't in the movie and i never read that. K. Johns identified the poster and the poster looks nothing like Allen. It does look like Kane. I'll admit Allen may have done the Ferrin shooting but I think Kane did most of the others. Kane was definitely crazier than Allen, and may have stolen Allen's ideas about the name Zodiac etc. They both may have been at that paint party. If so, they may have known the same people, and that may be how Kane learned of Allen's ideas.

Electrickoolaidzombi, He didn't wear the hood at L. Berryessa all day, only just before he attacked the kids.

The movie and every other place I've read says the guy who killed Stine was 5'9, heavy build, short dark hair, horned rim glasses. That doesn't fit Allen. Correct me if I'm wrong but wasn't the poster made from the witnesses of the Stine murder?

The witness at L. Berryessa goes by the name Bert model maker in this thread. Hines had nothing to do with it. I found it myself. Didn't you look at it?
www.hobbytalk.com...



[edit on 25-7-2009 by Sargoth]

reply to post by Sargoth


Relink your link, its not working for me. Hines is a lier and is considered by most a forger of evidence. Its on quite a few websites.

Also the Zodiac killer website is known for faking evidence, I don't trust them at all.

Kane probably stole Allen's ideas about the name Zodiac etc.

Thats impossible, because that info was not attainted until extremely late into the case.

[edit on Jul 25th 2009 by TheMythLives]

reply to post by Sargoth


Wait your linking to a thread? A thread that anyone can be? A thread in which people post things to seem important? As far as I know thats some clown who just made up a story for the hell of it.

reply to post by TheMythLives


CLOWNS ARE PEOPLE TOO

alright.
this post is reserved for weaknesses in the case against allen. ill probably updating it gradually or something.

Which evidence was faked by zodiackiller.com and why would they do that? If that's true then how can we trust any site. The kids story is pretty detailed. It rings true to my ear, but that's neither here nor there.

[edit on 25-7-2009 by Sargoth]

reply to post by TheMythLives


First of all, S+F for a well researched and presented topic

I agree with your conclusion that Gyke is the most likely suspect. However there is one line of investigation which I think merits further digging into.

The Zodiac Hates police and guess what this man was an editor for an anti-police paper, called: Good Times.

The Zodiac in his letters to the police, had some pretty unusual spelling conventions. My first thought was that whoever wrote the letter was badly educated. After seeing the compelling evidence against Gyke, and then finding out that he was a newspaper editor, I started to wonder if he would purposely misspell words to mask the police from identifying him.

I would really love some microfilm access to those papers, or an online repository if such a thing exists (I'm hunting for both right now) Identifying people with multiple online personalities, by finding peculiar identical spelling conventions which crop up repeatedly, is kind of a hobby of mine.

reply to post by Lazyninja


Hey mate. Unfortuantely, Gyke has been debunked..lol.. I drew the gun to fast on that conclusion.

Here's the link to the killer right now:

TheMythLives Compiled Evidence For Allen

Here's the Interview done to the "T" again to catch you up. And welcome to the thread my good chap.

You said Kathy Johns never identifyed anyone. Well I just found this. See link.



Kathy Johns nailing Kane
www.youtube.com...

www.youtube.com...

reply to post by Sargoth


she also later identified two men (who didnt look anything alike) then said her memory was unreliable. i mentioned it in an earlier post


And we know that zodiackiller.com fakes things because ALL of the evidence against Gyke pretty much came from there. and all of it (as far as i can remember) was based off of first hand accounts from a source the sites owner (ton voigt) knew or something.

by-stander.blog.com...

theres a quick rundown on the gyke falsifications.

this link is on that site. but its worth posting here.
by-stander.blog.com...

also, i emailed voigt personally about where he got his information. he never responded.

also it may be noted that no really credible site has any real mention of gyke and the proof provided by voigt

and almost every other source that mentions gyke at all refers to him fondly. i cant find a discouraging word about him (excluding zodiac killer.com)

hes mentioned in this wiki page about the Roxie Theater
en.wikipedia.org...

(hes called dick gaikowski in it)

his obituary
www.sfgate.com.../c/a/2004/05/05/BAG6U6FN3G1.DTL&type=printable

EDIT: sorry grrr. that wont work for whatever reason. just google "gaikowski" and look for the sfgate url and click that.

and looking up "dick gaikowski wiki" in google (i think thats what i searched) this thread was one of the first couple to show up

WOO!





[edit on 25-7-2009 by ELECTRICkoolaidZOMBIEtest]

reply to post by ELECTRICkoolaidZOMBIEtest


Which is why, I said she never identified anyone. Maybe I said that wrong and inaccuratley, anyway, thanks for clearing that mess up Koolaid Also thats why I don't trust that website anymore, because when you dismantled the Gyke theory, I also found that they faked information and that means I cannot trust anything from them...unfortunate this is.

I've been reading some info. stating Graysmith is the source of a lot of misinformation. How do feel about him as a source? I know how you feel about the Gyke info. so no need to repeat it. But what about the Allen and Kane info. on Zodiackiller.com? Do you guys feel it is accurate or not?

[edit on 26-7-2009 by Sargoth]

reply to post by Sargoth


Since my dad met Graysmith a while ago, when he met my mom in California (i think..lol). Graysmith and my dad got to talking baout the Zodiac and my dad says that he trusts him and his opinion. So I trust Graysmith, on a level. But most of the facts do not come from Graysmith, they came from the reports. And most of the time when people try to discredit everything he does, they always reference the movie. Which even Graysmith said had fictional info, becaus eit was a movie. But he also said that the major scenes were done correctly and the surviving victims and cops acknowledge the accuracy.

On the Zodiac Killer website I have never been able to cross reference the Kane info and that aggrivates me. So I do not know what is true and falsified. Allen is a little easier, because his reports are all over the place. But I would just avoid the website, or email Tom Voight and ask where he got the Kane info, I doubt he will answer will a reasonable answer, but I have been wrong.

reply to post by ELECTRICkoolaidZOMBIEtest


Really quick! How did you email Voight. I would like to email him and ask where he got this Kane info..lol.. Thanks koolaid.

reply to post by TheMythLives


i emailed him a few weeks ago.
(i mentioned it briefly in an earlier post)
i found the email address somewhere on zodiackiller.com


and
"*Gaikowski's nickname, "GYKE," can clearly be seen in Zodiac's three-part cipher."
thats on the site. remember how "gyke" is in one of the ciphers? well im not sure where they got that as his nickname. i think everyone that knew him called him "Dick" even that Roxie wikipedia page called him that.

www.zodiackiller.com...

there. try that to contact him.

SORRY i havent gotten around to the case against the case against allen. i fell asleep really early last night and just was lazy today.

EDIT: more information on allen's zodiac watch.
an ad for the model he had

The detectives commented on Allen's wristwatch at some point during the interview. It was an expensive Sea Wolf model, made by the Swiss manufacturer Zodiac, whose logo is a crossed-circle. Allen responded that he received it as a gift in the summer of 1969. Allen's brother was later asked about it and said that his mother gave it to him for Christmas in 1967

this was after the Timex watch was found near Cheri Jo Bates' body. not necessarily proof. but interesting to note.
[source: www.trutv.com...]
2.bp.blogspot.com...

[edit on 27-7-2009 by ELECTRICkoolaidZOMBIEtest]

The Case For Allen's Innocence

"[Donald] Cheney, who had been friends with Allen for years until he moved to southern California, told the detectives that he and Allen had had a conversation in Allen's Fresno Street basement in December 1968 that started on the topic of recreational hunting but soon took a turn for the bizarre....After broaching the idea of hunting humans, Allen is said to have given a hypothetical account of"(paraphrased so its brief) how he would commit all these murders and crime identical to how zodiac did it. "Allen also allegedly stated that he would call himself "Zodiac."

ohhhhh tough break for allen. a friend ratted him out. its pretty damning, no one can deny that.


EXCEPT "Allen had touched Cheney's young daughter inappropriately on a camping trip years before, and Cheney had complained to Allen's brother about it. (In one report, a VPD detective wrote, "This might be a motive why Cheney would make such an accusation against Arthur Allen") "

that detective might be right..he MIGHT be. or cheney could be telling the truth even though he had reason to lie. having a reason to lie doesnt mean you are.


[source: www.trutv.com...]
EXCEPT
"The Chief of Manhattan Beach Police contacted the San Francisco Police Department soon after the interview, and SFPD Inspector William Armstrong spoke to Cheney on July 26. During the eleven intervening days, Cheney began what has become an interesting trait of recovering memories that are increasingly elaborate in their indictment of Arthur Allen." long story short, his story changed. just about every time he talked to the police he had something new or changed what he said.

"It has become clear over time that Cheney's account cannot be relied upon for accuracy."

[source: www.trutv.com...]
(After the police gained warrants to search his trailer and cars...)
Major case prints - inked impressions of the entire hand, fingertip to palm - were taken, as were samples of his left- and right-handed writing. All were tested by state experts against the Zodiac evidence. In no case was there a match. California handwriting analysts even went so far as to state that Allen's writing "definitely was not that of the Zodiac killer". 2 He was given a polygraph test and passed it.

[source:www.trutv.com...]

"In December 1990, when Ralph Spinelli was arrested for armed robbery in Lake Tahoe, NV, his bid for leniency included a tip to the Zodiac's identity: none other than Arthur Leigh Allen. Facing 30 years in prison, Spinelli claimed that Allen had told him in 1969 that he was going to San Francisco to kill a cabdriver. Perhaps not coincidentally, Allen's only arrest before his child molestation charge was for a fight with Spinelli...."

(after the police gained another warrant a did another search)

[the police] "Seized were bomb-making materials, newspaper clippings, several firearms, a knife, a typewriter, and Allen's Zodiac watch. Of these, the knife and one handgun could have been Zodiac evidence (it is widely believed that the Zodiac was not responsible for the murder of Cheri Jo Bates or the typewritten confession that followed it), but neither led to charges or an arrest, and it can be assumed that they were unrelated. Allen's prints were submitted to the FBI Laboratory, and again the comparison came back negative. According to one newspaper report, "Allen was dismissed as a suspect"."
[sourcewww.trutv.com... ]

"A convicted child molester, Allen was, like the Zodiac, interested in "little kiddies" - but pedophiles that kill outside of their target group are incredibly rare."

"Allen is said to have had access to a car like one seen by a victim - but the truth is that Allen had lost access to that car when he was fired from a job three months before the attack." (no specifying which car or attack unfortunately)

"Allen passed a grueling 10-hour polygraph test"

[source: www.trutv.com...]

"...upon his death, investigators retrieved brain tissues for DNA testing. The technology at the time failed to prove anything."

in 2000 a new[er] team working on the case compared DNA on stamps and envelopes to allen's

"In October 2002, the findings were announced. Allen had been eliminated as a donor of the DNA on the envelopes. At this time, they announced that they had three more letters to test, which could assist with creating a complete DNA profile, but those, too, failed to yield convincing evidence."

[source: www.trutv.com...]

Allen's palm print did not match prints lifted from Zodiac-related items, either, or his handwriting. In fact, there has never been a way to conclusively pin the crimes on him.

[source: www.trutv.com...]


ON A SIDE NOTE the site did not exactly present all of these fact in a way that could really be called "objective" (some pages had a pro-innocence slant for allen) but that does not make them untrue.



this is all. i will update this if i find more

Excellent work Koolaid! Keep it up, I await your next post

thank you for the compliments myth. i try. i TRY ...


one thing has kind of bothered me for a while...

why hasnt the fbi figured this out yet? we have AMAZING technologies available to us.

ive thought long and hard about this and just assumed that it was on the back burner because its 40 years old.
while that may be true...one could also say its because THE SAN FRANCISCO
POLICE ARE IDIOTS!

i found an interesting article on the good old internet that just befuddles me beyond the............im so mixed up by this i couldnt finish that sentence. (true story)


"The FBI has been asking since the year 2000, nine years, to view the police department's evidence, so far they've been shut out.

Only one Zodiac murder was committed in San Francisco, but the department has the majority of the Zodiac letters and the only partial DNA profile of the killer.


The San Francisco Police Department denied our multiple phone and email requests for an interview, specifically asking if they will allow the FBI to examine their evidence."



EDIT: cbs13.com...
THE SAN FRANCISCO POLICE ARE DENYING ACCESS TO THIS INFORMATION! why???????? they obviously dont want this case solved for SOME reason.

this just leaves me shaking my fist in the general direction of SF.


and on a different note. i found this:



its a 2 hour long interview (audio only) with Blaine- Voigt's main (and only) source of evidence to make serious connection to the zodiac murders.

www.humyo.com...

more later as the story unfolds....and if i can figure out what Blaine is saying in this rambling shambling mess of a confession by him.

[edit on 27-7-2009 by ELECTRICkoolaidZOMBIEtest]

[edit on 27-7-2009 by ELECTRICkoolaidZOMBIEtest]