Off-duty officer shoots 2 in lot after Angels game

reply to post by Nutter


Apparently you were there.

reply to post by MajesticJax


I agree about protecting your family.

What I don't agree with is shooting 3 bullets into a crowd of people.

Something about this story doesn't add up:

I've been in situations such as MSU CedarFest where my fellow rowdy (drunk) Michigan State Spartans have "incited a riot" by throwing glass bottles, rocks, etc. I literally witnessed hundreds of kids -- or should i say "thugs" since that's what some people want to use LOL -- throwing dangerous objects that could have easily caused deep lacerations. And mind you, these objects were thrown at other civilians and UNIFORMED officers.

At the end of the night, no one ended up dead or wounded from shots fired. A LEO didn't get hit in the head with a bottle, pull out a gun, and smoke someone. Neither did the civilians. And I know for a fact that numerous police officers and civilians were injured after being struck in the head/body with glass bottles and rocks.

Some of the wounded civilians tried to serve their own brand of vigilante justice by delivering some serious beat downs to the "thugs" who were causing havoc. The cops tear gassed us, arrested, or both.

My point is, the cops in this riotous situation didn't just start shooting into the crowd (not even non-lethal projectiles) just because someone hit them or a colleague in the head with a bottle or rock. That's absurd!

Yes, the off-duty cop was with his family but IMO this guy needs to grow a pair. You don't shoot 2 people, in a crowded area, risking the lives of innocent bystanders, because someone throws something at you. Brandishing a gun should have been an ample deterrent to his attackers. Firing it is a completely different ballgame (no pun intended). He should have AT LEAST detained one of the alleged assailants until his backup arrived. Shooting in this situation just seems unsafe and unjustified.

Originally posted by KEMIK
reply to post by Nutter

 

Apparently you were there.

No, but the article says this:

ANAHEIM, Calif. – An off-duty police officer shot and wounded two men who had assaulted him in the crowded Angel Stadium parking lot after Wednesday night's Colorado Rockies-Los Angeles Angels game, authorities said.

Did you catch that part where they state that it was a "crowded" parking lot?

reply to post by Nutter


And where exactly in the parking lot did this occur? Also, I'd like to make reference to your earlier post where you mentioned, or questioned the term "thugs". Yes, they were thugs. They attacked some guy and his family with beer bottles.

I would have shot them in the head and not lose any sleep over it.

I don't give a crap if it was in a crowd or if we were all alone in a daisy field.

"Ever notice how you come across somebody once in a while you shouldn't have messed with?" - Clint Eastwood.

Those idiots came across the wrong person.

Originally posted by KEMIK
They attacked some guy and his family with beer bottles.

Again, reading things into the article that aren't there? Where does it state that these "thugs" attacked the family?

reply to post by Nutter


Reread your post above. He was with his family. They attacked the father, with his family...that is an attack on someones family. A clear threat. I don't believe I know personally know anyone that has a family that would not see it as such.

reply to post by KEMIK


So, if I get into a fight with another father at a little league game, then it is considered that I attacked his whole family? Did I get that right?

reply to post by alyosha1981


[snip],
I am a retired police officer of 23 yrs protecting families in LA and other locations and making sure [snip]you get to grow up, not sure you have grown up yet. I am aloud to carry my gun for the rest of my life as a retired police officer in the state of California and as a matter of fact I am aloud now to carry my gun in any state of the United States because of a bill passed about 5 years ago called HR218.
Now, if I am walking with my wife and little kids from a nice evening at a ball game and two males walk up and hit me in the head, my first though is they are going to kidnap my wife and maybe my kids. Rape my wife in front of my kids........so you are saying I have to wait until they comit one of these crimes before I take action.? ................You are totally out of touch.............................KMG



Mod Edit - removed profanity, uncivil line.

2) Behavior: You will not behave in an abusive, hateful and/or racist manner, and will not harass, threaten, nor attack anyone.

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[edit on 25-6-2009 by elevatedone]

[edit on 25-6-2009 by elevatedone]

I lived in SoCal for 18yrs and have been to several professional sports games. The fans almost always get out of hand after a game especially the losing teams fans and when you add that to having drank alcohol it becomes very serious. I was at the Raiders / Chargers game in like 2000 or 2001 and there were at least 20 seperate altercations between fans after the game. In one of the fights a man was stabbed to death.

Officer or not if someone attacked me while I was with my family and I had the right to carry a gun they would've been shot.

My father taught me to fight like a man (with fists), but in an instance like this there is no greater responsibility than to protect my family at all costs meaning if I had to I would kill another human being and would not lose a wink of sleep over it. It's sad his children had to see this but I would have done the exact same thing.

This does not sound like a case of abuse of force. It sounds exactly like self-defense. He being an officer really has no bearing on this incidence to me.

I see it like this... If you f-with me like a man you'll take your lumps and so will I. If you f-with my family I will bury you and spit on your grave.

my .02

edited to add... A beer bottle to the head can KILL!!!!

[edit on 25-6-2009 by INJUNJAY]

Originally posted by kissmygrits
[snip],

snip].

[snip],

Please do me a favor and don't.

Now, if I am walking with my wife and little kids from a nice evening at a ball game and two males walk up and hit me in the head, my first though is they are going to kidnap my wife and maybe my kids. Rape my wife in front of my kids........so you are saying I have to wait until they comit one of these crimes before I take action.? ................You are totally out of touch.............................KMG

Ah, so now it's guilty because you think this or that MIGHT happen?

And it's a wonder why many of us think the way we do about police officers. The way you just posted tells me that you are the immature one who needs a little help in your issues.



Mod Edit - removed material that was previously deleted from post.

[edit on 25-6-2009 by elevatedone]

[edit on 25-6-2009 by elevatedone]

reply to post by alyosha1981


I dont know what happened, I dont think you know either but everyone seems eager to blame the Cop.

There are people out there that will kill you for fun, if someone attacks me and my family in public I will stop the threat and I am sure this is what happened, some scumbags bit off more than they could chew and were rewarded with some lead.

Until more details come out I think we should not rush to judgment.

This is America and when faced with danger we should not expected to turn tail and run away, it may turn out that this Cops actions saved someones life down the road.

reply to post by Nutter


Now you're stretching it. You're straying from the topic.

Originally posted by samhouston1886
reply to post by alyosha1981

 

I dont know what happened, I dont think you know either but everyone seems eager to blame the Cop.

The only thing I blame the cop for is overzealousness. Protecting family is fine, but to do it in this way IMO is not.

Until more details come out I think we should not rush to judgment.

I agree.

Originally posted by KEMIK
reply to post by Nutter

 

Now you're stretching it. You're straying from the topic.

How is that straying from topic? It's called a correlation.

reply to post by Nutter


You're playing the "what if" game. Bottom line...guy out with his family gets attacked. Whether or not you agree with his means of defending his family is your opinion.

Does it ever stop? Please 2012, I hope world peace comes.

We need a consciousness shift.

reply to post by Donnie Darko


Amen. Just everyone get along for Christ's sake.

Originally posted by Nutter

Originally posted by KEMIK
They attacked some guy and his family with beer bottles.

Again, reading things into the article that aren't there? Where does it state that these "thugs" attacked the family?

Apparantly Nutter, you haven't done the math yourself, have you?

In the article posted in OP in clearly reads that he was "being choked"
by 2 men. And also being hit in the head with beer bottles, or let's say unknown objects....

The officer called a dispatcher at his department and asked for help, saying two men had choked him and asked him to get away from his car, Sgt. Rick Martinez said.

I would imagine his family being in the vicinity of no more than a few feet.
So clearly, by attacking the father, the family is instantly in danger of these thugs who apparantly are very violent.

He (the off duty officer) also made an attempt in calling dispatch for help. Therefore it wasn't the officer's 1st reaction. They continued to attack him.
He then reacted.

AGAIN, this off duty officer had his weapon on him. After being overpowered by more than one person, you now have atleast 2 criminally intented men in posession of handgun which I'm figuring had 16 rounds in it.
The thought of that alone, especially during a hostile environment such as a possible riot, is no question a much, much bigger threat to innocent bystanders......agreed?

So let's reconsider. Would you rather that weapon ended up in the wrong hands? Taking the chance whether they were going to discharge it or not?
Or would you fire in self-defense, especially after being attacked with the presence of your family by more than one person?

Seriously?

Clearly, his attempt of lawfully preventing any further criminal actions by the victims who were shot in this case failed, when they kept attacking him, even if they realized (or not) that he was calling for assistance.
*he was on the phone with police*

So, with that said these 2 men who attacked him, clearly are *also putting his family in danger as well. no?


Why fail to look at this part of the picture?

If he drew his gun, and they continued with violent intent, then guess what?
Mess with the bull & you get the horns.

What would you have done? Wouldn't your 1st instinct be to protect your family, then you?

I think you would personally feel different, and that was you with your wife & 2 kids with you.

They hit him in the head. Period.

According to the Anaheim police, the gunman was an off-duty Anaheim police officer who said the two men hit him on the head with an "unknown object."

Perhaps we might all be jumping the gun and the story is fresh, and we should wait for further details.
But as far as doing the math? Looking at the facts here?
This is self defense. The fact that he's an off duty officer is really irrelevant.
He could've have been a civilian, with a registered handgun, at the ballgame, with his family. No difference.!
I'm just seeing at what happened, as best as possible while I'm waiting for further evidence, and testimonies to surface to make a rational conclusion.
I think the fact that's he's a cop is also why people want to jump the band wagon and have a pignata with this guy.

Quite boring actually.


I also want to mention that this is not the first time in recent memory that in California in particularly there has been unpleasent incidents in large crowds..
We have all recently heard about the riots after the Laker's championship....

This is the latest violent incident during a professional baseball game in the L.A. area. At the Dodgers' home opener against the San Francisco Giants in April, a man was stabbed multiple times in a stadium parking lot after getting into an argument with several men in a pickup truck. Also in April, a fan died during a fight at the Angels' home opener.

Something is in the air. California's in hardship times right now.....
Perhaps people are on the verge of mass rioting again.
Who knows.
But this kind of behavior, with so many people around you can become extremely dangerous.

It's a shame what has happened.....truly.

The lesson that should be learned? Don't mess with people and their families, and handle your booz when you go out.! Don't go breaking bottles on people's heads, instigating a riot, because you just might get what's coming.

Don't mess with people.




edit to add source: www.latimes.com...










[edit on 25-6-2009 by Ben Niceknowinya]