Off-duty officer shoots 2 in lot after Angels game

reply to post by GTORick


True, it needs to be fully investigated (there should be CCTV) .. It could possibly be that they knew he was a cop and thought he was defenseless.. I have heard plenty of stories about officers being attacked, or their families, or their homes while off duty by people they have arrested or investigated.

what the info on wiki is saying though is self defence is only classed as self defence if the use of force is a viable in that scenario.

for instance, if someone says there going to punch you, you cant stab them in self defence. that would be aggravated assault

reply to post by Rockpuck


That is very true. The cop could have been set up. That is a very good point. In that case, throw the book at 'em! If he got to take them out first and it was an ambush, good for the cop! I digress, I am anxious to hear the other side of the story.

Read the story. He was with his SMALL CHILDREN.

They're defenseless. He can use his deadly force to save another person's life.

The courts will see it this way, too.

Originally posted by rcwj75

Originally posted by Nutter

Congratulations to you. You have just proven MY point. Had it been a regular guy, he would be sitting in jail. Thanks Jax.

Please show me an example of a citizen being locked up for defending himself and his family using a firearm! I would like to see it....

Your wish is my command.

Police arrested Antoine, a 27-year-old from Boynton Beach, Friday night on charges of second degree murder and attempted first degree murder.

Antoine's attorney, Kelly Landers, said Antoine was confronted by two "large" men who were armed around 3 a.m. Monday outside of Mystique Lounge in downtown West Palm Beach. Landers said the two men hit Antoine and then threatened to kill him.

www.palmbeachpost.com...

There's one. Need more?

He saw Lonny standing there. He said, what are you doing here Lonny? At that moment Lonny lunged toward the deacon. They both fell to the floor. The Deacon stuck his hand in his pocket to pull out the gun to scare Lonny. Lonny saw the gun and grabbed his hand. They struggled and the gun went off and shot Lonny once in the chest.

He fell over. Sam rushed to call to report the emergency. Lonny was pronounced dead at the scene. Sam was taken in for questioning. The police discovered the long running feud between Sam and Lonny. They also learned about Sams joking comments to get Lonny first. Sam was charged with premeditated murder.

Sam was held for several weeks in the city jail. After many consultations with his attorney and a new investigation, new evidence was presented that cleared Sam of murder charges.

www.articlesalley.com...

BTW, Sam didn't just get to walk home. He had to go under an investigation and was held for several weeks.

Need more?

BAKERSVILLE, Ohio — An eastern Ohio man says he killed a black bear in self defense because the bear charged at him — but he's been charged with shooting an endangered animal.

John Tanksley says his dog tried to chase the bear away from his property at Newcomerstown in Coshocton County but the animal kept coming back.

He says that when he and his girlfriend tried to get the dog back in the house on Wednesday the bear charged at them.

State wildlife officer Garth Goodyear describes the bear as "man-size" and weighing 165 pounds.

If Tanksley is convicted of the misdemeanor offense he could get up to one year behind bars and be fined $1,000.

www.foxnews.com...

And that one is just for shooting a bear in self defense.

No a NORMAL citizen as you guys put it would not be facing murder charges in this situation...again proved examples of your claims...not just blow smoke like most ATS meatheads who bash WITHOUT facts or knowledge of the incident....rather on pure hate and opinion.

Care to apologize for calling me a meathead and saying I bash without facts or knowledge? Thank you.

[edit on 25-6-2009 by Nutter]

Nice news stories, but where are your facts to back up the cases that they presented in court?

This "Sam" guy in palm beach could have had a rap sheet a mile long.

Or maybe his family wasn't even home when he shot that other dude!

Originally posted by ironspy
Nice news stories, but where are your facts to back up the cases that they presented in court?

This "Sam" guy in palm beach could have had a rap sheet a mile long.

Or maybe his family wasn't even home when he shot that other dude!

This Sam guy was a Deacon at a church. Do you think he had a rap sheet?

The point is that these people are facing penalties and lawyers fees for self defense. Of which, this cop will face neither.

Also, rcjw asked for people who were "locked up" NOT people who were convicted. I'd say spending weeks in jail would be considered "locked up". No?

[edit on 25-6-2009 by Nutter]

[edit on 25-6-2009 by Nutter]

reply to post by ironspy


Just a guess here but you must be LE. You are hitting people overhead for the facts. So far all we have is the statement from the officer. How do you know what happened beforehand? You are demonstrating what everyone is upset about; which is blind faith the scenario is as the officer stated. You don't know and neither do we what the circumstances were at the time. You are making a judgement without witnesses or the other side of the incident being heard. That is not right.

Edit: Typo.

[edit on 25-6-2009 by GTORick]

I'm gonna call my peace here.
I don't fully understand why peope need a gun, but alas i'm from a different culture.

Forever i will have differences of opinion, but that i believe is a good thing because it creates dialogue.

To any members I have debated with I thankyou.

To any members I have insulted, the please forgive me. I assure you none of my insults were with intent, more a result of passion about a subject.

To any members who insulted me.... .

Peace

Originally posted by CX
I see nothing wrong with this, self defence if ever i saw it.

If two guys are low enough to attack someone in front of their wife and small kids, who knows what they would do after they'd finished you off with a club?

Fair game if you ask me.

CX.

QFT.

All the OP is doing is a police bashing thread that holds no merit.

Take police out of the title, and all of a sudden he would be cheering him.

You expect police to be held at the same standards as us? Well, if I saw a normal citizen shoot someone that has been assaulted, I would cheer them on.

The cop status has nothing to do with this...even though if brought to court - it will.

Go officer! Protect your family and yourself, show those punks whatsup, and I hope lady justice is on your side.

reply to post by FritosBBQTwist


Good thing that third bullet didn't hit anyone huh? I still feel this was over the top.

Originally posted by Nutter
Further information:

Obviously the off duty police officer was unlawful.

• No weapons are allowed inside Angel Stadium of Anaheim.

losangeles.angels.mlb.com...

I wonder how they will link this broken law with the shooting of the men?

I agree with the self defense issue - but not him bringing the gun in the stadium. Could it be different for police officers (even if off-duty)?

Off course he should be allowed to bring the gun into the stadium, there are on duty officers inside the stadium with their weapons why not an off duty officer?

Originally posted by jeffsmathers
reply to post by connelly4245


I envy your courage and fear your government. Good luck to you and may no harm come your way.

You are a happy citizen and I'm sure your govenment will not fear you ... no matter who or what ideology is at the helm in your future.

I will be forever greatful that we as Americans had at one time, a Constitution and leaders who would not tolerate nor trust those who seek power over the people they serve, to enable a few over many, to make decisions that profited them power and money and while wielding the burden of great taxes to maintain control.



and your country is not seeking power? profit? control?

open your eyes and look at the world around you. your beloved country has many fingers in many dangerous pies, trying to gain power and money from other peoples misfortunes.

and ill have you know that scotland is the smallest greatest country in the world! lol (only people to repel the roman empire ill have you know)


My reply is from my paragraph above : that we as Americans had at one time (Past Tense) , a Constitution and leaders who would not tolerate nor trust those who seek power over the people they serve.

And like your country and many other Europeans who have endured the tragedies of Slavery, wars, and caste societies .... Ours is not and was not perfect, we did have however, the greatest chance of freedom until we allowed our government to decide that some are more equal than others and should be given special rights and privelidges.

because there was more than one attacker, unless i'm mistaken, the assault falls into the realm of 'deadly force'. deadly force laws are generally based upon how a rational person would typically respond in a life or death situation.

even if the shooter broke the law by carrying he may still be absolved from serious charges. he could be charged with 'discharging a firearm', and 'unlawful possession of a firearm', but the shooting will probably slide because his family was approached by multiple assailants. (if those are indeed the facts.)

I'd do it. Guaranteed. If some drunken slobs hit me in the head after a game, and my wife and kids were in harms way, they (the attackers) would be toast. People go on and on about how shooting people in self-defense is wrong. But to that I say, once you make the conscious decision to harm another for any reason, other than in the defense of yourself,your loved ones, or in the defense of those that can't defend themselves, you pretty much give up your right to exist. So, if your going to attack someone, rob someone, B&E, or otherwise trample on someone else, and that someone blows your head off, you've no one to blame but yourself. Like the man said: Don't start nothing, and there won't be anything.

Chrono

reply to post by alyosha1981


Sigh... are you serious?

Now place yourself in his shoes. Imagine you're walking and out of nowhere something painful hits you in the head. Might be anything, including a bullet which glanced off. You are disoriented. You only know you have to protect your loved ones. If you die, the worst case scenario might be your loved ones are either RAPED, TORTURED or KILLED.

You do not have time to think.

You tell me you will not go into survival and self defense mode? A rock to the head can kill. That's why they have stonings. 2 man vs 1 man who is easily outflanked and manhandled.

Seriously before you post your opinion, you need to really think about it first to see whether it is fair.

Originally posted by connelly4245
for instance, if someone says there going to punch you, you cant stab them in self defence. that would be aggravated assault

If someone says they are going to punch you there is no crime or attack so you cant do squat about it. Unless your Bush Jr. and think you're justified in a preemptive self-defensive strike.

Once you were punched however, given that you are armed, you can't just draw your weapon and shoot. Not unless the punch was such a punch that you honestly felt your life was threatened. Hopefully, if this attacker announced he was going to punch you you werent stupid enough to just stand there and you took steps to avoid the confrontation.

If the punch was not such a punch that you felt your life was threatened but the attacker remained poised for further assault by all means draw your weapon but do not fire. If, with weapon drawn and orders to stop, the attacker continues toward you by all means fire. Moving toward you after you have drawn your weapon and given orders to stop is a hostile act by a crazy person and should be dealt with accordingly.

Of course all of this takes place in seconds. This is why constant training and preparation are the most important parts of gun ownership and gun use. Keep in mind that the average beat cop sends a few rounds into some paper every couple of months. It has been my experience that the average cop is not nearly as well-trained or as knowledgeable about firearms as the average gun-enthusiast non-cop. And I've trained more than a few cops. I dont look upon cops with suspicion because I'm a closet criminal. I do so because I know just how half-assed law-enforcement can be.

That said I do know some great cops and I know plenty of jackass gun-enthusiasts.

Originally posted by badw0lf

Originally posted by FadeToBlack
Defense of family much?

I don't know about you guys, but if I were attacked and I felt my family was in danger, I'd probably shoot them provoked.

If it were me by myself, I probably wouldn't shoot unless I had to.. But if my FAMILY were with me... I'd be much more defensive.

And By all accounts, you would NOT make a decent law enforcer.

Why are people so much ignoring the facts.

Its akin to a surgeon saying "This guy smoked ciggys for 45 years, Bah, Let him die."

YOU DON'T GET THAT OPTION, IF YOU ARE GIVEN THE RIGHT TO UPHOLD A CONCEPT.

In uniform or not, you don't get to shoot people because they throw crap at you. You get to grab them by the scruff of their neck, take them to an on duty officer, lodge a complaint and claim citizens arrest at MOST.

Do not give law more power then it already thinks it has... for christs sake...

you dont take your family on the job when your a cop

he never said he wanted to be a cop, or that he would make a good one

hes making a case for every decent protective loving family man out there

and if you dont agree with him, im waiting for the day that you let your family come to harm or be killed

seems like you really like criminals. Thats ok, Some people like defending losers

[edit on 26-6-2009 by Kevin_X2]

reply to post by Nutter


those dont seem like relevent situations. one was a bear, the other was a little scuffel between two men. neither situations involved multiple attackers or a blow being delivered that caused injury.

your not a meathead but i still dont like the examples.