Would our military personnel honor the Constitution or just follow orders?

reply to post by jd140


Like I said, I'm not afraid of what the military will do to protect their government. What happens, happens. It wouldn't take much for a big strong military guy like you to pop my lil ol head just like a cherry.

So wh get worked up about it?

reply to post by semperfortis


semperfortis:
The Marines just got a very large raise in my opinion level for what you shared with me. Your comments said a lot, lot, and a lot more. Now, is there any way we can teach those principles to our F.'d up government leaders? Nah, wouldn't even be worth trying, would it?

Peace boss,
CBS

reply to post by ocker


ocker:
I would be very much interested in any input you may want to share. It's almost 2:30 in the morning where I am and am about to go to bed, if you do feel generous enough to share your input, please share with us the country you are from (if you feel secure) also. I, as well as others I bet, would be interested to know other nations opinions on this topic as well.

Peace and good night until tomorrow,
CBS

reply to post by CBS01


I seem to answer this type of question at least once a month on ATS.

This is my stock answer:

I will not support a government that directly suspends or abolishes the principles and freedoms set forth in the US Constitution. When I swore in, I swore in to uphold the ideals of that document.

If any one man attempts to utilize this army for his personal reasons or gain - I and many others will walk away or something else.

I will not go into the something else because I know they are watching us....

I have a family and friends to think about back home and I already have several plans in case SHTF. The military supplies a goodly amount of gear when it sends you into the fray, but not a lot of supervision in a crisis situation. Hard to tell when someone suddenly vanishes.

Rest assured.

[edit on 23-6-2009 by mf_luder]

reply to post by UFOTECH


Star for you, you have it spot on.

Good luck getting people to listen to you.

Originally posted by Sundancer
reply to post by jd140

 

Like I said, I'm not afraid of what the military will do to protect their government. What happens, happens. It wouldn't take much for a big strong military guy like you to pop my lil ol head just like a cherry.

So wh get worked up about it?

"I fear you are wrong".

Obviously you are afraid of the military.

Now that you are resorting to sarcasm (as it always does) I leave this thread to the paranoid.

Don't worry your "lil ol head", when the time comes I will make sure yours is swift and painless. Just because I like you.

reply to post by CBS01


No clue what you are talking about chief.

Honestly I think we have more to fear from the general paranoid populace than we do our own military. Yes those in the military obey orders, but were they to be given an order to harm civilians most would refuse and rush home to protect their families. They are people first and foremost. What they do for a living doesn't change that they all have people they care about that they would want to protect.

The only situation I can see where someone in the military would fire upon a civilian would be if that civilian was firing at them first, but that is no different to me than if anyone else were to fire back to save their own lives.

reply to post by Jenna


To quote Dale Gribble.

"But...that....makes absolutely perfect sense."

Since it makes sense, your post does not belong on a thread such as this.

reply to post by jd140


Yeah I know. I just can't seem to stop myself.. I've tried not making sense, but it doesn't work too well for me.

On the bright side, since it makes sense it will be overlooked and ignored by most.

I'll offer my opinion on the subject since I was in service. I was in the Navy so I don't know what my role might be in a martial law scenario since I was on ships during my career. However, I will say one thing from my experiences; most who take that oath respect it and adhere to it.

If God forbid, our government becomes the enemy and issues immoral or illegal orders every serviceman is expected to disobey. They are all instructed to know the Uniform Code of Military Justice (UCMJ) and in there is the nature of what orders to follow and which to disobey. That would be a soldier or sailors defense in court martial for disobeying and order.

But it really boils down to what is morally right and wrong. We all know how the government officials are great orators and masters at painting a picture that is untrue. It is really up to the individual service member on what to do. In my opinion I think the government will use mercenaries and quite possibly foreign troops to handle a martial law scenario in the US. The bulk of our service members are abroad, and the ones here; may disobey and that poises a risk of mutiny. I have faith in my fellow services members because I used to be one. However, there are bad apples in every bunch.

[edit on 23-6-2009 by Jakes51]

OK, have to agree with the post about paragraphs (as I wipe the blood from my eyes)!

All service members take the same oath when swearing in:

"I, _____, do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God." (Title 10, US Code; Act of 5 May 1960 replacing the wording first adopted in 1789, with amendment effective 5 October 1962).

Source.

Emphasis on "support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic". Any order issued that violates the Constitution is an unlawful order, and thus must not be followed. As Semper stated above, it is taught to every recruit in boot camp (all branches). I spent 8 years in the service, and service members do take that oath seriously. Would there be some who would follow orders blindly? Yes, but the majority would not, and thus influence the minority to not violate their oath.

Edit to add source.

[edit on 23-6-2009 by JaxonRoberts]

reply to post by CBS01


I'm no hero, I just do what is right, like all people should. I couldnt, I woulndt stand by and let the people I care about die because of some NWO B.S. it wouldnt fly at all. And like I said there are some of us within that know what to do if somthing like that ever happens. I like to think of myself as a Wolf coverting the Sheeple and opening their eyes to things like this, and let me tell you more people know whats going on then you think..

As a former Air Force member, I take my oath seriously still. Look up "Call to Duty" and "Oathkeeper War" for more on how I feel about it and the faith I have in my brothers and sisters in service.

The average G.I. takes the oath quite seriously: a long time ago in 'Nam the American Legion set up a post at DaNang and tried to make an oath of loyalty to the president part of the membership requirements. Most guys were outraged and reported it to the I.G., who quickly pointed out the unconstitutionality of that and forced its immediate removal.

Service members debate the issue frequently in my experience, more frequently than civilians do, since the issue directly affects their own situation. That said, I've seen some units whose commanders were more political than military, and who subverted the loyalty of those under their command towards political figures rather than the Constitution.

But I trust most service members to do the right thing: they are used to making difficult decisions in hard places, and I'll give them the benefit of the doubt until proven otherwise.

I have many friends who joined the military.I could never see these people turn their weopons on fellow Americans.Not that others wouldnt but i could see those few taken out by the real US soldiers.These are not nazi ss but human beings with families just like you.

sorry dupe post

[edit on 23-6-2009 by AgentX09]

Soldiers are not absent common sense.

If you are a soldier, on your post, and you've been assigned to guard that post, then anyone who assaults you and threatens your post, regardless of civilian or not - should be shot.

To assault a civilian population going about their lawful business with lethal force is not going to be done. And even if you have a yahoo or two who would continue, I assure you their military careers would be short and terminal.

If you wonder about what the military would do in a time of a Constitutional crisis - then don't put their backs to the wall.

Don't force a bad decision.

They'll stay on their side and tend their mittens, as long as you do the same.

Never force a man with a rifle into a bad decision. It usually works to your own detriment.

Look up a group called the Oathkeepers ... they are members of the US military and federal/state/local law enforcement officers who have sworn to uphold the Constitution and defend it from Obama.

Law enforcement officers also take an oath to protect/defend and uphold the Constitution "against all enemies, foreign and domestic".

[edit on 23-6-2009 by ChrisF231]

Originally posted by dooper
Soldiers are not absent common sense.

If you are a soldier, on your post, and you've been assigned to guard that post, then anyone who assaults you and threatens your post, regardless of civilian or not - should be shot.

To assault a civilian population going about their lawful business with lethal force is not going to be done. And even if you have a yahoo or two who would continue, I assure you their military careers would be short and terminal.

If you wonder about what the military would do in a time of a Constitutional crisis - then don't put their backs to the wall.

Don't force a bad decision.

They'll stay on their side and tend their mittens, as long as you do the same.

Never force a man with a rifle into a bad decision. It usually works to your own detriment.

My thoughts exactly. Yet you'll still get people on here who will denounce that very mentality but would do the same thing if their back was against the wall of their home.

Originally posted by Sundancer
reply to post by jd140

 

I'm not trying to bash the military. Nor am I afraid of what they're going to do, if and when they are called on to protect their government from the people. The Op asked for opinions and I gave mine. I feel they'll follow orders and protect their government. I hope you're right - but I fear you're wrong.

Do you not understand the military?

When I held my hand up I swore to defend the constitution not the government officials. And I'd tell my commander to shove it up his rear if he gave me an order that was against the constitution.