Homosexual behaviour widespread in animals according to new study

I also have a question for homophobics. (yes, that's what you are)

Can you control who you are attracted to? You know, you see a fine looking member of the opposite sex, who is sexually attractive to YOU. Do you control that? Or is it something that just grabs you and makes you all hot and flustery?

I can look at an absolutley beautiful woman, and I know that she's beautiful. But I don't feel sexually attracted to her. I can spend whole nights in the pub without going "phwooar" once. Why is that? is it becasue i've chosen who to be sexually attracted to? No, I totally didn't choose that. It's not a choice, and anyone who claims it is, is talking out of their tiny hieney. It's not a choice i made. It's a choice i tried to fight against, i desperatley wanted to be normal. Even attempted suicide becasue i knew i was gay. And that depression, came from muppets who think that being gay makes someone a subhuman freak. And the pressures of trying my best to be straight, they crippled me for many years, and did so much worse, to so many other young people.

The idiot homophobes of this world have alot to answer for. Just like the idiot racists.

Originally posted by die_another_day
For those animals, it's "necessary" as if their survival depend on it. In our society, is homosexuality necessary?

Well if all of us were breading, there'd be a hell of alot more people on this planet. So maybe this is natures way of keeping the population down. make X% gay, to ensure that there's enough rescource and space for continued survival.

[edit on 18/6/2009 by Acidtastic]

Who cares if it's genetic or not. If someone's gay they're gay.

I've struggled with my sexuality, recently coming out as bisexual. It was hell for me, not because of what my family would think, but because of my own internal battle. The reason for this internal battle was because of my personal perception of what society thinks of gays and people who aren't heterosexual.

I didn't want to be what I am, I (like Acidtastic) would like to have been normal. I think that this alone shows that there is certainly some element of genetic selection related to homosexuality. But, for those who haven't gone through it, I could see how they wouldn't understand.

The mainline:

Just accept people for who they are. It's 2009, we need to start treating each other better in order to progress as a species.

I see the same good in anyone's eyes.

[edit on 18-6-2009 by JipStix]

Originally posted by Acidtastic

Originally posted by die_another_day
For those animals, it's "necessary" as if their survival depend on it. In our society, is homosexuality necessary?

Well if all of us were breading, there'd be a hell of alot more people on this planet. So maybe this is natures way of keeping the population down. make X% gay, to ensure that there's enough rescource and space for continued survival.

[edit on 18/6/2009 by Acidtastic]

Thats the same thought process that has lead me to tolerate (not accept) the lifestyle. I mean honestly, what is the bigger issue: Uncomfortable PDA and annoying parades or Rampant overpopulation across the board and a lower quality of life all around?

I still say there's an aspect of choice in the matter (and chemical imbalances) but anyone standing against it solely on religious grounds need to ponder if this same anti-gay god intended for them to live in a soceity where crowd surfing would get you to work faster than driving.

reply to post by bobbylove321


You say animals can do whatever they want. Excuse me, but you are wrong.

Animals do what they are programmed to do - they have no choice.

reply to post by bobbylove321


You are asking for proof - the animals that are programmed to be gay - come on, of course it is not a choice. It is born within people.

You can see little kids acting gay, even though they have no clue.

Originally posted by Mikey84
Also, for the ones coming out with the old “it’s not natural” crap..... Neither is driving, or wearing clothes, or flying in an airplane, but I bet you still do it.

Homosexuality is natural, as natural as Heterosexuality. I mean, how do you know Homosexuality is not nature’s way of controlling our out on control population growth?

Mikey

From a scientific point of view, homosexuality is as 'natural' as dandelions....

Zealot types hate to admit this, but it's the truth.

I guess they have a hard time processing this type of relationship because their brains are washed with **ANTI-HOMO** (for sale now!)

The Torah, Bible, and Koran are just scriptures past on by scriptures of generations of superstitious people. Look it up!

A hypothetical question:

If you were born in a world or a time where there were no holy books like the Bible or where there were no religions... or in other words, if you were born in a world free of religion...

Would you still think that homosexuality (whether it occurs in humans or animals) is abomination or unnatural?

Use your brain. Throw out the dogmas and religions. If you think it is wrong or abnormal, WHY?

reply to post by Deaf Alien


Becaue it frightens them my friend. Because they are only prepared to view the world through their own warped sense of morality. Because when they were teenagers they probably had a homosexual experience and have never been able to put those "demons" (in their eyes) to bed.......

reply to post by bobbylove321


Hey, guess what - animals do what they do, and people do what they do.

Full stop.


[SNIP]



Removed profanity

[edit on 18/6/09 by masqua]

reply to post by 0010110011101

Becaue it frightens them my friend. Because they are only prepared to view the world through their own warped sense of morality.

Yes that what it is. It all boils down to religion. We are essentially debating this with religious people.

I do not know that many people who are against homosexuality not because of religion, but other reasons.

We have seen many excuses from those people why animals behave the way the behave. They can not wrap it around their heads that it is completely natural.

reply to post by bobbylove321


No, it is not a choice. Animals are gay - they have no choice.

People who are gay have no choioce.

Originally posted by Techsnow
If you do claim that gay sex is ok because animals do it then you must also say that is ok to do everything else that animals do.

Mod Note: General ATS Discussion Etiquette – Please Review This Link.


[edit on 17-6-2009 by asala]

I must say I find posts like this very worrying. You are using your dislike of gays to make arguments that are very flawed. When I see posts such as these, it makes me lose faith in humanity, and especially, religion as a whole. Rather come out and say you don't like homosexuals than create a ridiculous argument like you did before.

Animals also eat food, drink water and sleep. Are these things considered taboo because animals do them? The thread is making a reference to the fact that homosexuality is not a Human-specific phenomenon. This undermines the idea that performing homosexual acts is not a natural behaviour. Even somebody as opposed to "gay rights" as myself can see how flimsy your assertion happens to be.

Originally posted by Acidtastic
I also have a question for homophobics. (yes, that's what you are)

Can you control who you are attracted to? You know, you see a fine looking member of the opposite sex, who is sexually attractive to YOU. Do you control that? Or is it something that just grabs you and makes you all hot and flustery?

I can look at an absolutley beautiful woman, and I know that she's beautiful. But I don't feel sexually attracted to her. I can spend whole nights in the pub without going "phwooar" once. Why is that? is it becasue i've chosen who to be sexually attracted to? No, I totally didn't choose that. It's not a choice, and anyone who claims it is, is talking out of their tiny hieney. It's not a choice i made. It's a choice i tried to fight against, i desperatley wanted to be normal. Even attempted suicide becasue i knew i was gay. And that depression, came from muppets who think that being gay makes someone a subhuman freak. And the pressures of trying my best to be straight, they crippled me for many years, and did so much worse, to so many other young people.

The idiot homophobes of this world have alot to answer for. Just like the idiot racists.

I must admit, reading posts such as this makes me question my own innate assumptions more and more. Brutally honest and real, no sugar coating. You displayed courage by sharing your story and standing up for what you believe in. Being gay does not make you any less of a human, any less of a brother, sister, cousin or friend. People who treat others in a subhuman manner because of their sexual preference are the ones who would truly make Jesus cry.

There are SO many more terrible things in this world that matter much more than who you decide to have sex with. Even if you do not agree with somebody's ideology, religious affiliations or sexual preferences, it is the person they are inside that matters most, and I can ensure you that if God does exist, God would rather you treated those who you believe have sinned with respect and tolerance. Anger, hate, intolerance, loathing - these are not qualities of God, these are characteristics of the Devil.

Originally posted by Kevin_X1
reply to post by Mindmelding

 

this is an issue that really gets to me. i have a couple gay friends, and they are nothing short of normal. you, sir, are a homophobe. i know for a fact straight people get together in groups, straight people perform racial and sexual atrocities far beyond what gays are normally capable of (because they have some femanin compassion), and straight people can be just as conflicted and F#@%ed up as any other human being. Step down from the pulpit, take that book out of the fire, and go meat a gay person instead of just bashing them online

You sir are making a very inaccurate criticism of both me and my post. While I singled out fragilities of the gay community, especially the males, I also widened the rational for it to sex in general. Besides, all you come up with is heterophobia, as you basically just attack anyone who is not gay.

I've met plenty of homosexuals in my lifetime. I know who they are, how they network, what they do. I worked with some of them for some time, and, shockingly, there do exist courteous hetero-homo non sexual relations out there. Many of them acknowledge the problems homosexuality brings.

Yes, you're right, there are problems with heterosexual personalities too, but that is not the scope of this thread, and I hinted as much in the very post you're commenting and linking to.

You're criticism is imature and childish, and is nothing more than an ad homine. Homophobia is a fear and discrimination of homosexuals. I neither fear nor descriminate. I will shake their hands and work with them. I will eat with them. But should they overstep sexual bounderies and break social etiquette I will hold them accountable.

Get this into your skull: There are limits, and they will be imposed. Just because there is a gay community not everyone is gay. Not everyone wants to be gay. Most of us are not at all interested in the lifestyle and the practices. So gays should know their place in society and tone it down. We can accept them but they have to behave in a civilized and respectfull way.

Homosexuality is for consenting adults. It's a fringe sexual practice at best, 5% of the population, maybe 10, but that's it. I don't want children coming out gay. I don't want children having sex either. I want sex kept between adults with consent. Sure, some will start sooner, which is why most countries have age of consent lower than adulthood, but regardless, in an ideal world sex is treated with respect, because it, hetero and homo, is dangerous. And homosexual sex, imposed on otherwise heterosexual children, can scar a person for life.

But again, so the histerically gay understand this: I have no problem with homosexuality between consenting adults. I am not a homophobe. But I will hold people accountable for their actions and the harm that leud behaviour can do to others. Everything most surely does not go.

And, big surprise, most people think the way I do. I represent the majority of grown ups out there. So deal with it.

reply to post by Dark Ghost


Here is an essay I wrote on the subject for the local paper a few years back right after the Matthew Shepherd murder. It was unfortunately never published:

You don’t have to be gay in order to sympathize with them over the prejudice and hatred that they face, or for any other discriminated against minority for that matter. Just a modicum of charity and simple human decency will do.

The amount of abuse that gays receive, just for being what they are, both as children, and as adults is terrible. I have witnessed it first hand and nobody should have to go through that.

The depression and suicide rates among gay teens are appalling. I knew a boy who blew his brains out after his good church going parents disowned him for being gay.

My late wife and I gave refuge to a young man after his parents threw him out because he was gay. Afterwards, I made sure my stepsons clearly understood that there was no difference between them being picked on because they were black and Chinese; and somebody else being harassed because they were gay. Both are wrong.

A former coworker’s fundamentalist parents, refused to have anything to do with him after he announced that he was gay, even unto death. They wouldn’t even consent to his burial, and his grieving lover had to go to court to beg for permission to lay him to rest.

I don’t care what church you go to, such behavior is mean spirited, hateful and wrong. And, no amount of Bible thumping will change that. The Bible has been used to justify many things, not all of them good, just or moral. Remember slavery?

Jesus enjoined us to love one another, to “do unto others, as you would have them do unto you”.

Jesus taught us to “judge not lest we be judged”.

Jesus urged us to be more concerned about the beam in our own eye than the mote in our neighbors.

Jesus told us to “let he who is without sin, cast the first stone”. And yes he told the woman to “go now and sin no more”, but not before asking her who remained there to judge her, and when she said no one my lord, he replied, and neither do I. And, if Jesus would not pass judgment, then who are we to do so?

Jesus had harsh words for the sanctimonious, the self-righteous and the arrogant letting it be known in no uncertain terms that he was not impressed by their piety. He preferred to sit down and break bread the sinners and the outcast instead.

And, how would Jesus react the Fred Phelps of the world who said nothing about the sin and brutality of Matthew Shepherd’s murder yet protested his life with “God hates Fags” placards at his funeral?

I have known plenty of good and decent gay couples that have been together for decades and obviously love and care for each other deeply. Excepting sanctioned vows, they are as married as any I know. And, I have known married couples that violate the sanctity of those vows from the moment they get up in the morning to the moment they go back to bed.

I have known gay people who were the salt of the earth, and some that were total jerks. Just like the rest of us. And, I will no more pass a value judgment on them simply because they are gay than I would anybody else. How people behave towards their fellow human beings is what is important, and that is what they should be judged by.

I am not anti-Christian, far from it. I do my best to live the life of tolerance and compassion that I believe Jesus taught us we should live. But, I have little patience with those who insist that their version of Christianity is the only authentic one and that if you do not believe as they do, you are damned. I have a hard time believing that Jesus would be more impressed with dogma than empathy. Of course these are the same people who claim that it is you who are bigoted if you do not tolerate their prejudices. No bigotry should ever be tolerated, and it is a travesty of true spirituality to attribute any prejudice to God.

I learned long ago that what goes on in the recesses of the human heart is far more important than what goes on in bed. I learned that compassion and mercy have far more soul than dogma and doctrine. I learned that tolerance and charity open the heart and that fear and resentment closes it. I learned that hatred poisons the spirit. And, I learned that to change the world you must change hearts and minds first. I don’t expect to change anybody’s heart or mind but I can hope and I can try. “If I have all faith, so as to remove mountains, but have not love, I am nothing.”

Without compassion, we are no better than our prejudices.

I would like to think it says it all.

reply to post by grover


Tolerance and compassion. We may need to add those subject to all educational courses at every level. Drill it in and test on it.

Tolerance. Compassion. Think it over everyone. Judge yourself against that criteria and see how you come out the other side. Are you smelling like a rose or something much less pleasant?

Originally posted by 0010110011101


They found that on the Hawaiian island of Oahu, almost a third of the Laysan albatross population is raised by pairs of two females because of the shortage of males.

I am not sure that this posted evidence is evidence of anything at all.

It even says WHY these albatross are getting all freaky with the same sex because there is a shortage of males.

Hell, I bet the same thing happens in womens prisons because it certainly does in male prisons.

I must admit that I am inclined to think that being gay is a choice. I choose to prefer women to men as opposed to men from women.

And seriously right, why do gay people have to act .... so gay?
I mean come on, mincing around, squealing and doing all of that stereotypical crap that annoys me.
If you are gay, SO WHAT get over yourself and stop advertising it. I don't care. Grow up and get over yourself, get over yourself, get over yourself. You are gay ... WOW THAT IS SO AWESOME you truly are an individual, I envy you [/sarcasm]
I don't run around mincing like a fairy to pull women (actually ... sometimes I do, normally Tuesday nights)

Originally posted by george_gaz

Originally posted by 0010110011101


They found that on the Hawaiian island of Oahu, almost a third of the Laysan albatross population is raised by pairs of two females because of the shortage of males.

And seriously right, why do gay people have to act .... so gay?
I mean come on, mincing around, squealing and doing all of that stereotypical crap

that annoys me.

You say that as if it's compulsory behaviour for people who are gay. Yes some gay people are camp, but by no means all.

It's like saying all girls with blonde hair are sluts. It simply isnt true. It's an outdated and inappropriate stereotype banded about that has no basis in fact.

reply to post by 0010110011101


'zactly. And IMO, the fact that some gay people are so camp, shows that it's something genetic, and not any kind of choice. And they're not "acting" it's how they are. they're being themselves. I know, I know, it's terrible, isn't it