Here is why God doesn't exist.

The first part of the text proposes very powerful questions that everyone needs to think about, but it doesn't void God by saying that suffering exists. To answer any of these questions would imply that I know something about God and I don't. What I do know is that as desirable as a perfect world may be, it is the pain that we have endured and the obstacles we have overcome that have played a large part in making us who we are today.

This man above me has wisdom!

"To answer any of these questions would imply that I know something about God and I don't"


This is, IS humility. We don't know Gods mind. This is why God loves the apostles because they were childlike followers. They knew that god was perfect and even though they didn't understand some things he did they (trusted) in him because he is perfect.


thye knew this. They didn't play the advocate, they didn't pridefully put themselves above God, but followed him in all humiltiy.


which is another test.


peace.

[edit on 3-7-2009 by JesusisTruth]

Oh boy...sometimes I regret googling my own name. I don't have time for this right now, but to respond to the personal attack on p1:

"Why would someone who doesn't believe in God need to disprove His existence? Perhaps they're insecure in their own beliefs."

A very weak argument. I might as well accuse all the theists arguing against me of being insecure in their beliefs for replying in defence. But really: as far as I'm concerned, actually putting forward your beliefs for debate shows a great deal of confidence in how well they'll stand up/you can defend them. I've never met a doubtful person who was willing to submit their 'beliefs' to the rigorous examination of debate.

Plainly, my original post lacked clarity; I stand by my conviction that (in addition to other arguments) the argument from suffering trumps the idea of a loving and omnipotent god.

My 'favourite argument of the moment' however is the fact that I have no control over what I believe, and thus to send me to hell for it would be immoral. I can be convinced one way or the other by external factors that Christianity is right, murder is always justifiable, and Star Trek was good quality TV programming, but it's impossible for me to change my views on those things without external influence.

To blame me for the beliefs I hold as a result of external influence I could not control is barbaric. I can no more choose to be religious than you can choose to be an atheist, so if there is any kind of good God, he must care less about my right beliefs and more about my good intentions, or he would not deserve the title 'good'.

Originally posted by blind.face

Originally posted by Totakeke
Why would someone who doesn't believe in God need to disprove His existence? Perhaps they're insecure in their own beliefs.

^^ that is the best point anyone could ever make, and the main reason I have stayed out of this argument sooooooooooo many times. Who cares?

IMy God, my (Christian) God.. I refuse to believe that he is going to turn his back on one of his creations for simply exercising their "God given right" to question everything and form individual opinions.

So to you "your" God is a liar??? God says those people are "willfully ignorant". In laymans terms, = DUMB ON PURPOSE.

Sorry, God has laid out the path to salvation, it is a simple and free gift to ANYONE who wants it. A child can grasp it.

"ALL who call upon the name of the LORD shall be saved."

Originally posted by Nyte Angel
I found this on facebook, thought it would be a good read for the rest of the ATS users:

-------------------------------------------

Topic: Here is why God doesn't exist. The hell am I reading 600+ pages of your crappy arguments. My logic is flawless.

Dominic Hinkins (Cambridge) wrote on June 11, 2008 at 11:18am

1. Suffering exists.
2. If God exists and is worth worshiping, he doesn't want us to suffer, and can stop suffering at will
3. It's not because of our sins because babies also suffer and haven't had time to sin
4. It's not original sin because animals suffer too, and they haven't done anything.
5. Therefore, God doesn't exist or is a masochistic bastard. QED.
..blah blah blah...

CONCLUSION
There might be a God, but there probably isn't, and not the one you thought of, and he obviously doesn't care much about us...He may be skinny, shirtless and hung on a cross, but he's still santa claus.

-----------------------------

Thoughts?

The whole thing is so flawed I can literally make mince meat out of it.
But ill put it in simple words.

1. Failure to acknowledge God as a Sentient Life form

2. Failure to acknowledge the fact that freedom is a product of sentience

3. Failure to acknowledge that Humans are sentient just as God is sentient

4. Blames God for the responsibilities of a FREE world

5. Defines perfection as the human perception of good, instead of defining perfection as absolute authority

6. Calming that the universe started from the big bang implies that something must of caused the motion before it's existance... self-contradictory

7. Is aware ONLY of mainstream christianity, and speaking from a stand point that God is all about being lovey-dovey when it's clear that he is a master of chaos and death as well

8. Refuses to blame people for their actions of free will

9. Refuses to accept the fact that God has given the people the RIGHT to disobey without his interference... in short, the right to experience free will

10. Under-estimates the master of all matter, motion, and kinetic energy by ignoring the possibility that he is more than capable of brainwashing humans to become all holy and eliminating choice from our lives

11. Claiming that his logic is flawless when humans are obviously.. flawed from multiple perspectives

12. Refuses to acknowledge any source of reputable information of his existence as credible information and dismiss 100% of all claims as false... in other words ignoring the probability that even 1% could be correct

13. Claims to believe in evolution yet the concept of evolution keeps being re-written... MUCH more than 'religion' ever did...

14. Attempts to combine religion with the concept of an individuals reality, stating that religion defines a believers reality, not the other way around which is the way it suppose to be

15. Ignorant of the fact that sin is simply separation from GOD!!! Not a consequence of action!!! "though, through association it only appears to be the case"

Conclusion:
Typical argument, typical atheist, typical anti-Christ, typical defeat.

I've butchered many Satanists and atheists with this alone it's literally a crime to them.

They aren't after the truth, they want a battle of logic, so I gave them just that.

I'm not doing this to convince people, because I'd do it differently if I was. This is simply playing the game they made and winning in their own grounds.
Now if someone REALLY wants to disprove God, these mainstream bullet points are like BB's to my Kevlar. What they need is something of higher caliber...

Now I acknowledge that I may be wrong. But if this is poker, I'm playing those cards and putting money in it.

[edit on 15-9-2009 by GambitVII]

[edit on 15-9-2009 by GambitVII]