Dealing With Denial of the NWO, the Coming Economic Collapse and the Second American Revolution

What about Nations Capitalism....

The philosophy...a business that does poorly should be allowed to succeed or fail. the business should not feel compelled to help other businesses in their success, nor expect to be helped in their failure.

The Nation of the USA has had great success in the past. and now, they are failing.

Should we be allowed to fail? to be completely fallen? This is the road highlighted. We have no industry (thats german and japanese now), we have no technology (thats now the domain of the east), we are alright farmers. We have no great oil exporting, we are done...we have nothing to offer beyond hollywood.

If America was a business, what would happen at this point? and what should happen?

my opinion, from a simple capitalistic viewpoint, liquidation, break it up into managable segments, and restructure the managment. Eliminate waste, hoarding, and rebrand.

Alternatively, before complete and total collapse, the USA could release a new product that would once again make them viable...but such a product would *have* to be government controlled...if it was put back into the same failing managment system (capitalism), then the same thing would happen...outsourcing, competition, etc.

But ya, if America was a business, it should have been shut down already...China needs to stop bailing us out and let us fail properly.

reply to post by SGTChas


Although this is good at mentioning the problems, nothing here has really been discussed about what should we do, how to do it, and what actions should we take. And that's what I want to know. They talk about all the "denial" and stuff, but the alternative of denial is to accept, but what good is accepting it without action?

It also doesn't mention the peak oil. It is not long, if it hasn't started already, before we have used up half the oil on the planet and the other half will be harder and harder to extract, and what this means is that the overall trend in oil prices will be higher and steeper in their increase. When oil his $300/bbl the US and global economy is "toast".

Originally posted by Question
reply to post by Blagojevich

 

The only reason why people continue to do so though is a) they, like yourself, are too stupid or willfully ignorant to know otherwise, or b)they have been bullied or threatened to do so, or pay with harsh consequences.


[edit on 15-6-2009 by Question]

Or, they find its their patriotic duty to support federal institutions, such as the military, congress, senate, fbi, cia, and other such structures.

I wouldnt say its un-american to not pay taxes, rather, its unwise (plenty of people in prison screaming they have the right not to pay), and it is a patriotic duty to pay taxes also.

Legally ambigous, yet one of those things that you will be giving lots of sermons in fed prison about how you shouldnt be there. do I agree with it? who cares...thats simply how it is, how its always been, and dont see it changing too soon.
really someone should once and for all challenge it properly in the supreme court so any loophole is completely closed and we stop getting people imprisoned for listening to some nut saying he didnt have to pay.

reply to post by SGTChas

There is so much confusion in the media about the current crisis in the financial system. The solution to the crisis is very simple. Instead of the government bailing out the owners of the banks with all that toxic assets, the government should simply take over those banks, continue to operate them so that the system as a whole doesn't collapse but the shares of those banks become worthless. Then as the toxic assets are cleaned up, the government can then sell those banks back to the private sector and recover some or maybe even all of it's money. Your info about the Fed needing to borrow trillions is inaccurate. The Fed doesn't borrow at ALL. It never has. It has a monopoly on the creation of money. All it does is LEND. It prints Federal Reserve notes, which everyone thinks of a currency, then adds those new notes to the banking system's reserves which allows for the creation of more credit. One way to do this is to buy Federal government bonds and treasury bills. That's called monetizing the debt. If foreign and domestic investors won't buy all of the government's bonds, then the Fed will be forced to step in as the lender of last resort and buy them.

Is this a good thing? No. I'm not absolutely certain that the following information is correct but I seem to recall reading or hearing that when the Federal Reserve system was established, the Federal Government was given an option to buy the Federal Reserve from it's private owners and the price that would have to be paid now, would be a mere $1 billion. So for $1 billion, the Federal Government would realize a huge windfall because it would no longer owe hundreds of billions maybe even trillions of dollars to the Federal Reserve for treasury bills and bonds that the Fed has purchased in the past. That instant reduction of outstanding debt would then make room for additional borrowing to cover budget shortfalls. The reason this won't happen is that it's not to the advantage of the current owners of the Federal Reserve banks which are other domestic AND international banks including those banks that are loaded to the gills with toxic assets. And since those banks own Congress' soul via lobbying and campaign contributions, Congress will not do what's good for the country but rather what's good for Wall Street bankers and shareholders.

reply to post by mike3


First I would read this thread and sign it:

Above Top Secret

Then mail a copy to your Congressman and all other Government Officals you know.

Perhaps you do not understand what this new American has done with this thread? He has laid the moral groundwork for an armed response to any further violation of our Constitutional rights. Deemed necessary by our founding fathers as a precursor to armed insurrection against tyranny; a necessity forgotten by the rest of the patriot community (This is a red face admission that this new American has a better grasp of procedures in demand of a redress of grievances then I… Ouch) in our attempts to get our elected officials to HEAR us.

[edit on 6/15/2009 by SGTChas]

I can’t believe the blind worship of our countries polluted form of capitalism I’m hearing from such stalwart radicals as Sarge and Pig.

Whatever freedom to succeed and fail that capitalism once offered was strangled by the first corporations and then killed outright by the unholy union of corporation and government.

If you think the government is the enemy that has the power…you haven’t been paying attention.

"separation of business and state" now that would be a good idea

[edit on 15-6-2009 by AntonioDMastro]

reply to post by demo_man07


Oh no my fellow Patriot, notice that I have called for restoring the US Constitution PRE 16th adm. Corporations, Banks and the Government have become entwined in a fascist hybrid from hell. PURE capitalism practiced with Judeo Christian ethics has not been practiced SINCE the War Between the States. Thus, my attack on what has been perverted is correct.

[edit on 6/15/2009 by SGTChas]

reply to post by demo_man07

stalwart radicals

By the way, thank you for the high compliment! As I have been told, I could start an argument in a Convent.

reply to post by demo_man07


Where do you see me worshiping Corporatism?

I would like Capitalism over this crap.

We saw the complete hi-jack into Corporatism happened in the early 1900's, but I do not believe it was truly felt until the mid-late 1900's.

Originally posted by xxpigxx
reply to post by AntonioDMastro

 

I disagree with your second to the last point. We should be doing both. Trying to change things peacefully, but getting ready for when it goes down.

Hope for the best, prepare for the worst.

[edit on 15/6/2009 by xxpigxx]

In Isshinryu karate when you do the bow to a kata. your left hand is open meaning I prefer peace. Your right hand is closed in a fist meaning I'll fight if I have to. You bring both hands together with left on top of right and bow bringing both out to your don tien. I think that should be everyones philosophy. Even though's who would rather have everone of color,creed,nationality,religion just sit down with each other and have a few beers and have a good time and live in peace. This is summer time we should be enjoying looking at girls in bikinis and having some brew and giving everyone the peace sign,but this economic collapse has almost if not destroyed the middle class which mostly is how the majority of americans live. PTB want it to go back to the middle ages and create a quasi-fedual-faschist state(my screwed up definition), but this country has had over at least 200 years of the middle class running this country. With July 4 celebrations, hamburger,hot-dogs,sex,drugs, and rock and roll. But how can we celebrate the things that this country was founded on and look at the Declaration and the Constitution square in the eye, and be happy at gun point, with no money,no jobs, no nothing. They teach us in the public schools the very thing they fear which is why the founding fathers created this country, which is freedom. The right wingers want a theocratic feudal kind of thing and the lefties want the Marxists thing, but they all(the politicians want big government) I say there will probably be a revolution and then the PTB will try to bring the hammer down, or just total destruction Which probably will destroy America in the process. I just don't understand it. I don't understand it at all

reply to post by Hazelnut


Hazelnut, I hate to say it, but I'm afraid people as deeply in denial, and as dependent on others for their very existence as that young lady was, generally cull THEMSELVES out of the gene pool in any sort of real emergency that actually touches them, as opposed to seeing it on TV. Not usually on purpose, mind you, but cull themselves out nonetheless, because of their defeated attitude.

They defeat themselves ahead of time, before any real conflict begins.

reply to post by AntonioDMastro


You can't say fairer than that really. Spot on.

What the NWO Terrorists are scared of is people getting ORGANISED and UNCONTROLLABLE.

Apparently what alquida (i know not spelt right) do is instead of sending and recieving email they give user names and passwords to the concerned people.

Write messages and save in drafts. Then others just sign in and read the message, bish bash bosh jobs a gooden. Nothing sent, nothing to detect.

Anybody that reads this, do your bit, put together say 10 bullet points, 10 points that can be easily verified by Joe Blogs(anyone), nice bold writting on an A4 bit of paper, do this 10x each person(or more) if you can afford why not laminate, but post them up in public places. Keep on doing it.

Any more ideas get them posted in lots of places, also, if people make copies of anything helpful then at least there will always be copies to post back out there. C'MON AMERICA WAKE UP AND GET ORGANISED. HELP SAVE OUR PLANET.

and on my politcs I'm neither liberal nor conservative, but independant. Looking at my voting record you would probably think I was a complete idiot, but I pick the politician that best or is closest to my views. I voted for Obama believing we need a balance, back on the political pendulem and for that yes I'll admit I was a complete idiot for voting for him. But, I had believed we needed a balance away from the previous ultra-conservative administration. Maybe I should have voted Libertarian. Or put Joe Walsh(Eagles) as write-in again just to protest. Or maybe I should have protested and put "None of the Above" on the write-in. Maybe next election someone should run a "None of the Above" not as a silly protest, but a very serious grass-roots protest to the PTB saying We the People are tired.

Originally posted by Blagojevich

Across the country growing numbers of tax payers are stating that they will not pay anymore taxes. Promising to not file and just to refuse to pay, growing numbers of US tax payers have said enough is enough;

Sounds like right-wing (un)Americans, who in a time of crisis, are unwilling to do their share in order to save their beloved capitalism.

The Tea Party movement continues to grow, as the anger of the American people over government waste

I thought after their first failed attempt they had completely given up. At least mainstream media is doing their part in ignoring these people.

That, I'm afraid, is the state of the majority of Americans. At least the Americans that I've had the displeasure to be acquainted with.

So you're saying instead of preoccupying our time worrying about these perceived threats, and concentrating on what would be best for "me," we should focus instead on the nation, pay our taxes, and do our part as Americans by standing behind our government or, at the very least, hope for its success in saving the economy and providing universal healthcare? I agree wholeheartedly.

[edit on 15-6-2009 by Blagojevich]

That has got to be the most twisted-up, convoluted, illogical response post I've EVER seen on ATS, and that's saying something! Congrats!

A. Just because "right wing" Americans don't toe your line, and do just what you order them to, doesn't mean they aren't doing their share. It's not your call to tell me what my share IS. YOU, and your comrades, are high among the reasons for what's coming.

B. Please, join the MSM in ignoring the Tea Party movement, as you so accurately put it. So please, continue to ignore them, and steadfastly refuse to address their concerns. As history has shown, any 'ignored' group of malcontents will eventually reach critical mass, and an explosion will occur. When that day comes, remember your arrogant words here.

C. The last quote above - that's so convoluted and twisted that it CAN'T be responded to, except to say that a third grader could have clearly understood what WAS being said, which doesn't say much for your powers of understanding. You very clearly twisted the words, and attempted to twist the meaning, of the poster.

But of course that was the intent there, wasn't it?



[edit on 2009/6/15 by nenothtu]

Originally posted by tkwasny

So it is with every officer I personnally know here at work. Always has been since 1971 when I first joined, did my +20 and now as a contractor.

I'm not too sure how to take this. Police or military officers? And who is it they view as "Enemies Foreign and Domestic"? Especially the domestic part...

Clarify, please.

reply to post by nenothtu

That has got to be the most twisted-up, convoluted, illogical response post I've EVER seen on ATS, and that's saying something! Congrats!

I guess he's been sarcastic.

Excellent thread SGTChas, your argument progresses logically to its reasonable conclusion.

The mode of thinking that allows some people to accept knowledge that conflicts with mainstream beliefs is always going to be considered fringe - until the burden of evidence becomes so extreme that no construction of lies can sustain its weight.

I suggest get a clear and concise message across to those you wish to influence as early as possible - cover in general terms all the crucial topics, write them down so there can be no dispute and ask people to retain your list. As evidence mounts you will have provided them a blueprint to understand what is happening - as it occurs your view becomes more and more undeniable.

Capitalism is so often targeted as the menace - where people obviously have little understanding of what true capitalism really looks like. True capitalism CANNOT support the huge corporations that exist today - those corporations could not exist without unfair regulation to sustain them - they would be crushed by small business that tailors to local communities. In short - laws have been implemented to CREATE monopolies - rather than the original laws ENFORCED which would destroy those corporations.

All of a given states resources and wealth should be retained within its borders for the benefit of its citizens - this precludes 'outsourcing' and so on - to do those things is to steal from the citizens. This includes any kind of foreign ownership - of any kind of capital that allows wealth to simply flow out of a state. This kind of thing is purely exploitation and slavery.

To go back to a free world will require the identification and disenfranchisement of the ultra wealthy, and laws put in place to curtail individual wealth, monopolies and the use of wealth to influence policy.

Natural disasters more frequent and severe... A growing/increasing worldwide spirit of unrest and frustration... The near complete death of morals - values - decency in America, and the virtual plague of the 21st century which is pressured political correctness & positivity in which no one is supposed to act like they're aware of it that the world has already gone to Hell and isn't going to escape from it... These are just some of the things I've observed in my lifetime.

Yeah I'd say denial is a problem for some people.

Originally posted by Clark Savage Jr.
I would advise we all are careful not to confuse disagreements in severity with 'denial'.


Any view of a coming 'economic collapse' or general breakdown in capitalism is pretty much rendered silly upon ones next visit to the check out line at wal-mart or next battle with rush-hour traffic.

Until these internet/MSM driven fear-mongering scenarios have been translated to the everyman---and make no mistake,they absolutely have NOT been----then this entire matter is being overstated and exaggerated.

If you have to deal with Wal-mart and rush hour traffic, then you are in THE most vulnerable place i.e. an urban area.

unless you look hard, you WON'T see it coming until it bowls you over. Infrastructure collapses in cities happen so rapidly from start to finish, it's breathtaking. ALL of the things people these days believe are necessary for survival must be piped into cities, and can be completely cut off in three days time. The chaos is sudden, and widespread. As the meager stock that people had built up are consumed, or stolen, the chaos becomes widespread and GENERAL.

MOST folks in that situation never see it coming, because, since the pipeline is full NOW, they expect it always will be. It only takes 3 days to show them it ain't so.

So, feel free to insinuate that I'm 'confused', 'silly' or 'exaggerated'. But while you do that, KNOW that I'm not hiding my head in the sand, thinking that what I'm telling you is 'impossible'. I know better.

I wouldn't say it's a 100% chance, nothing ever is, but all indications are leaning that way.

And the band at Wal-Mart, and in the traffic jam, just plays on.