2 Japanese Carrying $134 Bil Worth Of U.S. Bonds Detained in Italy

Originally posted by warrenb
I have a theory...

Since they were in Italy...could they not have gotten these "funds" from the Vatican?

Afterall, the pope is the richest man on the planet...having assets and properties totalling in the trillions around the globe...

I call BS on you . The pope is not the richest man in the wold and you'd do well to educate yourself with sites such as this

Originally posted by FunSized
I call BS on you

. The pope is not the richest man in the wold and you'd do well to educate yourself with sites such as this

And you pluck facts from a forum like this, what kind of research is that, unless you can present bank accounts, a balance sheet or something similar no one can really tell how much the vatican is worth. The church all over the world have vast assets in form of cash, land, forest and buildings,

reply to post by reugen


why don't you present some actual facts that the pope owns anything like oh IDK bank accounts, etc
I wasn't the one that started unfounded statements that were really thinly veiled hate mongering against a church.

Link: www.whatdoesitmean.com...

A Sorcha Faal Take on the bonds. BRIBE MONEY. I know people don't consider this a proper source, but just saw it after reading this thread and thought i'd post it.

Just a thought but if these bonds are real it would be a very underhand way of paying the Italian government $40 billion for whatever reason. The debt / bribe / payment for goods or services rendered gets paid and the source could be near enough untraceable.

reply to post by Chris McGee


Indeed, is there a law that states that the ownership of the documents have to be disclosed before they get their 60% back?

All and all this is a weird c(h)ase.

[edit on 13-6-2009 by Grey Magic]

Well, presuming they are really fakes, why would they hide them. I would stamps them with something, like a removable sitcker to indicate that they were fakes and come up with a back story such as "we are doing a lecture on counterfit bond rackets" or something.

If they are real, which is how I am leaning, then someone put in a call and said "those are our official agents and you will release them or else" -- or something like that.

As for intent, well, frankly, it's a money move. Someone wanted to influence the dollar using underhanded tactics. I can't imagine they would cash it in at the same time, they would probably piecemeal it in with valid sources in treasury auctions... Come to think of it, that would work if they were fakes, as well. Auction off 100B in real bonds and 34B in fake ones. hmmm.. *puts on thinking cap*

Originally posted by carlitomoore
Link: www.whatdoesitmean.com...

A Sorcha Faal Take on the bonds. BRIBE MONEY. I know people don't consider this a proper source, but just saw it after reading this thread and thought i'd post it.

Well, it does help. Now we can rule out "Bribe Money" as an explanation...

And I quote (without quoting)

Russia reportedly has ~140 billion in US debt they are trying to get rid of.

There was 134.5 Billion left in TARP at the end of March.

These two people were caught but NOT ARRESTED with 134.5 billion in US Bonds. Italian law states that they should have been arrested. As far as I know, only someone with diplomatic immunity can get away with something like that. Why they didn't use a diplomatic pouch is anybody's guess.... unless what they were toting around was under the official radar.

They were "Japanese Nationals," in Italy trying to get to Switzerland.

Timmy (the cheat) Geithner is currently in Italy, meeting with the Japanese and Russian financial guys in relation to the G-8.

Related links:

Link to SEC to check bonds to see if legit and www.bloomberg.com...

Link to German article "Windfall for Italy?" www.spiegel.de...

Russia's holdings:

L:ink to Russia's plan to cut Treasury holdings. newsusa.myfeedportal.com...

And "U.S. Treasury Secretary Timothy Geithner on Friday will meet Japanese Finance Minister Kaoru Yosano and Russian Finance Minister Alexei Kudrin in Italy, the Treasury Department said on Thursday. " www.reuters.com...

And, on top of that, Karl Denninger of Market Ticker notes a Zerohedge story indicating that the Federal Reserve may be tampering with the market. market-ticker.denninger.net...

Which is why we were greatly troubled when we learned recently on good authority that Federal representatives may have opened multiple undisclosed-type accounts with none other than State Street Global Advisors over the past few months. All of these accounts are allegedly handled by one single trader, who is cocooned and isolated from interaction with other partners.

Taken from
urbansurvival.com...

Interesting

[edit on 13-6-2009 by komp_uk]

The story of the spain 16 billion scam :

They told wealthy people that they recovered US Bonds worth 16 billion
in Japan after WW2. As evidence they showed some cases full of faked
papers and old gold coins.
They said the FED doesnt accept this Bonds and wont pay it out.
But they talked to Lawyers, wich said there is a big chance to win,
if they get enouth money to claim their money infront of an US Court.
Some guys have bought their story and paid them some 10000s .....

These Japanese guys were up to some scam on their own or just carriers for a ring.

I've traveled through Italy by train. Though a civilized country there's always a risk someone will grab your bag or hold you up. Foreigners at train stations are at particular risk.

People can get hit by cars, there are train wrecks, etc. No one sane authorizes 134 Billion to be carried hundreds of mile by hand and on public transport crossing a border.


Mike

Anyone speak German? Karl Denninger, over at the Market Ticker, is linking to a German source saying at least some of the bonds are real.

Google Translate of article from Welt Online

Original German article from Welt Online


That's pretty damn interesting. If we were in a normal economic cycle I'd throw this story in with the likes of Leo Wanta, GATA, and Sorcha Faal; but, we are not in normal times are we?

Interesting comments from someone using the name 'bdiego' following the article at Japan Today.

Who else but North Korea would send a couple guys on a commuter train with a false bottom bag?

We mustn't forget that even though the total value of all of them was astronomical, just getting someone to buy one at a deep discount would have been a coup.

And who know what the end game really was. Have them registered in some safety deposit box, stolen, ad try to collect insurance. Of course loopy, but we're dealing with some unusual characters who watch too many James Bond movies, and identify with the villains.

Mike

www.japantoday.com...

$134 Billion suggests it's either fake or from a sovereign fund. However that amount is a large fraction of what most countries hold of US treasuries - it's unlikely that China would just hand 5% or 10% of all US Debt they own to a pair of guys. It would be as likely as someone carrying 70 out of all 72 Monet's in the world across the border - fakes.

What's more likely is this is North Korea smuggling forgeries, first by landing in port in Italy by private ship then crossing the border by land into Switzerland where NK's financial stash is known to be. The idea is there's less scrutiny at border crossings than by plane where it will pass through x-ray (true to a degree). Italy is the simplest entry to Switzerland by boat, and NK employs several boats for smuggling as has been thoroughly documented and in fact being discussed as we speak at the UN for the new resolution.

[...]

Consider these background facts:

* North Korean faced international sanctions over institutional counterfeiting of US $100 bills. The country has no qualms about mass producing counterfeit money.

* North Korea has repeatedly manufactured fake passports, such as the Dominican Republic one used by Kim Il Jung's son to repeatedly enter Japan (where he was caught wearing a diamond encrusted watch). He claimed he was visiting Disneyland, but witnesses say he went straight to the red light district. The country has no qualms about mass producing counterfeit passports and claiming fake citizenship.

* There are a million ethnic Koreans in Japan who are otherwise Japanese, about a third of whom identify with North Korea and have supported North Korea's policies including kidnapping, murder, and international terrorism. North Korea has in fact admitted to these allegations, which are the crux of Japan's stance in six-way talks. North Korea has no qualms about terrorism, murder, kidnapping, or any crimes in general.

* North Korea's counterfeiting, missile sale, and opium production are all designed to generate hard currency it desperately needs to survive. It will do anything to get money.

* One of the few safe havens in the world for North Korea is Switzerland due to its strong neutrality. Kim Il Jung's heir went to school there and Switzerland serves as a repository for much of North Korea's currency and banking needs.

* North Korea has been known to use its small fleet of ships to transport agents into various countries for its crimes - as demonstrated by their use in kidnapping operations off Japan. Agents prefer to disembark by ship and cross borders by land.

* As only China, Japan, and Russia even possess this amount in bonds these are the only nationalities any smugglers would claim. Alas, such denominations of bonds do not exist in this amount and would be accounted for in any case, and they are almost definitely forgeries.

* North Korea has a colorful history of organized crime dating back decades - not many years have to pass for another bizarre pattern of crimes to emerge and it was only a couple of years ago they were caught for mass counterfeiting of dollars.

[edit on 13-6-2009 by mmiichael]

Here's a thought that suddenly came to me. It's become quite apparent that someone has been artificially propping up the stock market (there is just no sense or sound reason why the market has remained relatively stable these last couple months in light of every thing crashing around us). What if these bonds are connected to those that are attempting to keep the stock market alive?

There is so much information not known about all this, and the MSM blackout on this is another mystery. This could be like the biggest story of the year and very few media outlets are reporting about it. Why?

Originally posted by jefwane

Original German article from Welt Online

That's pretty damn interesting. If we were in a normal economic cycle I'd throw this story in with the likes of Leo Wanta, GATA, and Sorcha Faal; but, we are not in normal times are we?

No these are not normal times, the worlds number one supernation is under severe stress, i suspect that this must be the operation either of several very wealthy individuals or companies that want to unload their holdings of us dollar or states like russia, china and japan that want to do the same. Somewhere on the horizon a sharp decline in the dollar value is quite probable.

So what happens if the dollar lose half its value, the US would actually gain today, it would spur inflation, imports would decline and exports would improve, which is exactly what the FED want at this moment.

Edit: Another not so far fetched idea, it could be Irans payment to North Korea for nuclear technology and weapons gade plutonium.





[edit on 2009/6/14 by reugen]

Originally posted by reugen

No these are not normal times, the worlds number one supernation is under severe stress, i suspect that this must be the operation either of several very wealthy individuals or companies that want to unload their holdings of us dollar or states like russia, china and japan that want to do the same.

Edit: Another not so far fetched idea, it could be Irans payment to North Korea for nuclear technology and weapons gade plutonium.

134 Billion is much more money than Iran or North Korea could ever hope to see in one place ever.

Bill Gates would have to sell his holdings including Microsoft for cash along with some other multi-billionaire cronies to hold that much in these types of securities. China, Russia, and Japan would not be insane in putting the lifeblood of their countries at the bottom of a bag when a transfer of funds electronically would do the same thing in minutes.

Mike

Originally posted by mmiichael
These Japanese guys were up to some scam on their own or just carriers for a ring.

I've traveled through Italy by train. Though a civilized country there's always a risk someone will grab your bag or hold you up. Foreigners at train stations are at particular risk.

People can get hit by cars, there are train wrecks, etc. No one sane authorizes 134 Billion to be carried hundreds of mile by hand and on public transport crossing a border.


Mike

Mike I don't think you know what you are talking about, we are not talking of Rome or Naples here, we are talking about trains going from Milan, through Como and Varese into switzerland.

Travellers are mostly business people and a number of "sofisticated" tourists .
I travel on these trains all the time, I met journalists, photographers on theses trains...

You are probably thinking of Rome, Venice , Florence places where typical tourists would be found and where,just like in central london or Portobello Road, one would need to watch for smugglers...come on...

[edit on 14-6-2009 by barbar.aha]

Originally posted by barbar.aha

Originally posted by mmiichael
These Japanese guys were up to some scam on their own or just carriers for a ring.

I've traveled through Italy by train. Though a civilized country there's always a risk someone will grab your bag or hold you up. Foreigners at train stations are at particular risk.

People can get hit by cars, there are train wrecks, etc. No one sane authorizes 134 Billion to be carried hundreds of mile by hand and on public transport crossing a border.

we are not talking of Rome or Naples here, we are talking about trains going from Milan, through Como and Varese into switzerland.

Travellers are mostly business people and a number of "sofisticated" tourists .

I travel on these trains all the time, I met journalists, photographers on theses trains...

You are probably thinking of Rome, Venice , Florence places where typical tourists would be found and where,just like in central london or Portobello Road, one would need to watch for smugglers...come on...

You missed my point. People can have accidents or get robbed anywhere.
As visibly Japanese tourists they would be more vulnerable.

Nobody risks 134 Billion that way.

btw I lived near Portobello Road in Kensington for years. Never thought of it as dangerous.


Mike

Interesting...

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